Guest K9 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 f****** sell the b******, he's 23 and not the finished article. Not good enough for NUFC at all. Sell him and buy Drogba... Let's ignore all the glaring deficiencies in his game too, eh? 23. Same age as Adebayor, Tevez and Torres then. All clubs with a far better training set up and manager than we have. Going to a "good" club doesn't automatically mean that players improve. Just look at Chelsea if you want examples. Martins has peaked IMO. Good enough if we want to stay at the level we're at currently, but not good enough to move us forward. Which of our players do you think are good enough if we want to move forward? Our only good player is zogbia There was me thinking Given was quite good... Past it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 f****** sell the b******, he's 23 and not the finished article. Not good enough for NUFC at all. Sell him and buy Drogba... Let's ignore all the glaring deficiencies in his game too, eh? 23. Same age as Adebayor, Tevez and Torres then. All clubs with a far better training set up and manager than we have. Going to a "good" club doesn't automatically mean that players improve. Just look at Chelsea if you want examples. Martins has peaked IMO. Good enough if we want to stay at the level we're at currently, but not good enough to move us forward. No it doesn't, but the problems with Martins are things that can be made less of a hinderance with good training and a manager who can look at him and see what his exact problems are. We have neither of them imo. thats the sort of codswallop that kept titus bramble at this club, like martins, a lot of his problems are in his brain, and you cant coach intelligence into someone, sorry Insane in da membrane? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nguyen Van Falk Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Past it I do hope you're joking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nguyen Van Falk Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 thats the sort of codswallop that kept titus bramble at this club, like martins, a lot of his problems are in his brain, and you cant coach intelligence into someone, sorry "s*** first touch Doesn't no how to use his pace Can't shoot Can't beat a man Passing is s*** No awareness" All those can be helped with training. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 thats the sort of codswallop that kept titus bramble at this club, like martins, a lot of his problems are in his brain, and you cant coach intelligence into someone, sorry "s*** first touch Doesn't no how to use his pace Can't shoot Can't beat a man Passing is s*** No awareness" All those can be helped with training. What about his high voice? Any hope for that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 thats the sort of codswallop that kept titus bramble at this club, like martins, a lot of his problems are in his brain, and you cant coach intelligence into someone, sorry "s*** first touch Doesn't no how to use his pace Can't shoot Can't beat a man Passing is s*** No awareness" All those can be helped with training. I'll get my boots out then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nguyen Van Falk Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 thats the sort of codswallop that kept titus bramble at this club, like martins, a lot of his problems are in his brain, and you cant coach intelligence into someone, sorry "s*** first touch Doesn't no how to use his pace Can't shoot Can't beat a man Passing is s*** No awareness" All those can be helped with training. I'll get my boots out then. I don't think even the combined football masterminds of "Coach" HTT and James could do anything for you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 f****** sell the b******, he's 23 and not the finished article. Not good enough for NUFC at all. Sell him and buy Drogba... Let's ignore all the glaring deficiencies in his game too, eh? 23. Same age as Adebayor, Tevez and Torres then. All clubs with a far better training set up and manager than we have. Going to a "good" club doesn't automatically mean that players improve. Just look at Chelsea if you want examples. Martins has peaked IMO. Good enough if we want to stay at the level we're at currently, but not good enough to move us forward. Which of our players do you think are good enough if we want to move forward? Give, Beye, Faye, Enrique (I hope), N'Zogbia. That's about it I think. However, the thread's about Martins, which is why I'm talking about him. You see I like at some of the players you've mentioned and I don't think they are good enough to take us where we want to be either, presuming you're comparing them against players playing for the better teams at the moment. As for Martins, I've made my feelings known about him before and that he's not as good as some make out, he's not as bad as others make out either, as far as us as a team go we look better with him in the team than when he's out of it, that's not necessarily because he's played well but because he stretches teams, not to mention being our top scorer, he's not good enough to be in the starting 11 if we were a CL team but he's good enough for a Uefa cup team which should be our aim. We'll find out how much we miss him come February when we've seen Owen and Viduka up front a month. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 f****** sell the b******, he's 23 and not the finished article. Not good enough for NUFC at all. Sell him and buy Drogba... Let's ignore all the glaring deficiencies in his game too, eh? 23. Same age as Adebayor, Tevez and Torres then. All clubs with a far better training set up and manager than we have. Going to a "good" club doesn't automatically mean that players improve. Just look at Chelsea if you want examples. Martins has peaked IMO. Good enough if we want to stay at the level we're at currently, but not good enough to move us forward. Which of our players do you think are good enough if we want to move forward? Give, Beye, Faye, Enrique (I hope), N'Zogbia. That's about it I think. However, the thread's about Martins, which is why I'm talking about him. You see I like at some of the players you've mentioned and I don't think they are good enough to take us where we want to be either, presuming you're comparing them against players playing for the better teams at the moment. As for Martins, I've made my feelings known about him before and that he's not as good as some make out, he's not as bad as others make out either, as far as us as a team go we look better with him in the team than when he's out of it, that's not necessarily because he's played well but because he stretches teams, not to mention being our top scorer, he's not good enough to be in the starting 11 if we were a CL team but he's good enough for a Uefa cup team which should be our aim. We'll find out how much we miss him come February when we've seen Owen and Viduka up front a month. The problem is the midfield or lack of it rather than the strikers. The fact that our best midfielder recently plays from left back tells you all you need to know about the qualities/or lack of - of the midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 thats the sort of codswallop that kept titus bramble at this club, like martins, a lot of his problems are in his brain, and you cant coach intelligence into someone, sorry "s*** first touch Doesn't no how to use his pace Can't shoot Can't beat a man Passing is s*** No awareness" All those can be helped with training. helped, yes, brought up to a consistent high standard, i doubt it, not enough raw talent/footballing intelligence, imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 f****** sell the b******, he's 23 and not the finished article. Not good enough for NUFC at all. Sell him and buy Drogba... Let's ignore all the glaring deficiencies in his game too, eh? 23. Same age as Adebayor, Tevez and Torres then. Who are all much better players..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I think he's a pretty good player. By no means great, but not as pathetically rubbish as some would argue either. He cost a lot of money, but f****** hell, who hasn't at this club? He has attributes our other forwards don't, namely pace and the occasional skill required to genuinely beat a man. The point being he worries other teams. For that reason I think he should be in the team. It's worrying how low on confidence he clearly is though. Its how 'occasional' the skill appears that is the problem - erratic, just as NUFC have very often been in the past - we need to get away from inconsistency... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 The fact still remains that he would have a decent scoring record at any other top 8 PL club. We just don't create enough clear chances for the likes of Martins. Most of our recent goals have come in strange ways or set pieces. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 The fact still remains that he would have a decent scoring record at any other top 8 PL club. We just don't create enough clear chances for the likes of Martins. Most of our recent goals have come in strange ways or set pieces. i agree with that, but you can say that about any player, the more chances they get, the more they'll score, his conversion rate is just too low imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 The fact still remains that he would have a decent scoring record at any other top 8 PL club. We just don't create enough clear chances for the likes of Martins. Most of our recent goals have come in strange ways or set pieces. i agree with that, but you can say that about any player, the more chances they get, the more they'll score, his conversion rate is just too low imo What is Torres conversion rate? Not saying Martins is better because he clearly isn't but Torres misses a lot of chances, the thing is he gets himself in the positions and with the chances created he will score. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 The fact still remains that he would have a decent scoring record at any other top 8 PL club. We just don't create enough clear chances for the likes of Martins. Most of our recent goals have come in strange ways or set pieces. i agree with that, but you can say that about any player, the more chances they get, the more they'll score, his conversion rate is just too low imo What is Torres conversion rate? Not saying Martins is better because he clearly isn't but Torres misses a lot of chances, the thing is he gets himself in the positions and with the chances created he will score. good point, i have to admit i dont have stats, but i watch martins more than i watch torres, seems torres cant quite lace up his shooting boots away from home but he looks deadly at anfield, torres is much the classier player though, excellent close control which means he can use his pace to go past people like they aren't there, martins just doesnt have that talent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 The fact still remains that he would have a decent scoring record at any other top 8 PL club. We just don't create enough clear chances for the likes of Martins. Most of our recent goals have come in strange ways or set pieces. i agree with that, but you can say that about any player, the more chances they get, the more they'll score, his conversion rate is just too low imo What is Torres conversion rate? Not saying Martins is better because he clearly isn't but Torres misses a lot of chances, the thing is he gets himself in the positions and with the chances created he will score. You can't really compare Torres in a Liv side where he will routinely get 4/5 chances a game and maybe 7/8 as he did against us and Martins predicament. He is lucky to get one clear chance a match, it's no mystery many of his goals are self made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 The fact still remains that he would have a decent scoring record at any other top 8 PL club. We just don't create enough clear chances for the likes of Martins. Most of our recent goals have come in strange ways or set pieces. i agree with that, but you can say that about any player, the more chances they get, the more they'll score, his conversion rate is just too low imo What is Torres conversion rate? Not saying Martins is better because he clearly isn't but Torres misses a lot of chances, the thing is he gets himself in the positions and with the chances created he will score. good point, i have to admit i dont have stats, but i watch martins more than i watch torres, seems torres cant quite lace up his shooting boots away from home but he looks deadly at anfield, torres is much the classier player though, excellent close control which means he can use his pace to go past people like they aren't there, martins just doesnt have that talent Spot On.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 The fact still remains that he would have a decent scoring record at any other top 8 PL club. We just don't create enough clear chances for the likes of Martins. Most of our recent goals have come in strange ways or set pieces. i agree with that, but you can say that about any player, the more chances they get, the more they'll score, his conversion rate is just too low imo What is Torres conversion rate? Not saying Martins is better because he clearly isn't but Torres misses a lot of chances, the thing is he gets himself in the positions and with the chances created he will score. good point, i have to admit i dont have stats, but i watch martins more than i watch torres, seems torres cant quite lace up his shooting boots away from home but he looks deadly at anfield, torres is much the classier player though, excellent close control which means he can use his pace to go past people like they aren't there, martins just doesnt have that talent Spot On.. How much did Torro cost btw? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan_Shearer Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Martins your breaking my heart please start playing again... Thing is he doesn't know how to play the game unless hes spoonfed world class service like he had at Inter...Lee Dixon said ages ago on MOTD that he doesn't really see a learning curve and thats probably right...so he wont improve much in inteligence...damn it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Martins your breaking my heart please start playing again... Thing is he doesn't know how to play the game unless hes spoonfed world class service like he had at Inter...Lee Dixon said ages ago on MOTD that he doesn't really see a learning curve and thats probably right...so he wont improve much in inteligence...damn it... He needs service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest K9 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Martins your breaking my heart please start playing again... Thing is he doesn't know how to play the game unless hes spoonfed world class service like he had at Inter...Lee Dixon said ages ago on MOTD that he doesn't really see a learning curve and thats probably right...so he wont improve much in inteligence...damn it... He needs service. When he gets it he messes up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Martins your breaking my heart please start playing again... Thing is he doesn't know how to play the game unless hes spoonfed world class service like he had at Inter...Lee Dixon said ages ago on MOTD that he doesn't really see a learning curve and thats probably right...so he wont improve much in inteligence...damn it... He needs service. When he gets it he messes up far too often i'm afraid, and i'm sorry parky, what torres cost liverpool is irrelevant, whether you think he was worth the money or not isnt gonna make martins a better player Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Martins your breaking my heart please start playing again... Thing is he doesn't know how to play the game unless hes spoonfed world class service like he had at Inter...Lee Dixon said ages ago on MOTD that he doesn't really see a learning curve and thats probably right...so he wont improve much in inteligence...damn it... He needs service. When he gets it he messes up far too often i'm afraid, and i'm sorry parky, what torres cost liverpool is irrelevant, whether you think he was worth the money or not isnt gonna make martins a better player Martins is not a top tier forward comparing him to the likes of Torres or Villa or RVN is grossly unfair. If you lot want a forward all these posts reflect well stump up the £30m and you can have one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjmc Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Martins your breaking my heart please start playing again... Thing is he doesn't know how to play the game unless hes spoonfed world class service like he had at Inter...Lee Dixon said ages ago on MOTD that he doesn't really see a learning curve and thats probably right...so he wont improve much in inteligence...damn it... He needs service. When he gets it he messes up far too often i'm afraid, and i'm sorry parky, what torres cost liverpool is irrelevant, whether you think he was worth the money or not isnt gonna make martins a better player Martins is not a top tier forward comparing him to the likes of Torres or Villa or RVN is grossly unfair. If you lot want a forward all these posts reflect well stump up the £30m and you can have one. and just ask chelsea about crespo and to a lesser extent shev how more of a kick in the face it is to invest huge and get limited return Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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