Can we cure the impatience and unrealistic expectations?

[Guest The Corner]

The thing is, the teams who are praised to no end, such as Blackburn, Villa, Portsmouth aren't too much higher on the table than us, and they've had much more time. Why couldn't we put up with Sam for another 2 years? Why is it, that teams such as Blackburn, Villa and Portsmouth who have been performing better than us in the last few seasons, are praised for around the same level of results which gets Big Sam sacked?

 

Could you have watched that football for another 2 year and not want to throw yourself off a bridge after watching it ? The way i see it is he is the end of the Shepherd regime, the end of a shocking choice of managers. Get the suitable manager in, a respected manager, and it will be hard not to give him time

[madras]

we are fucked if the glimmer of improvement is an unrealistic expectation

[Guest shaun11177]

i think Sam would have been ok if he had got 5 more draws at home to liverpool/portsmouth-away at derby/wigan/reading and a win at home to derby.-another 7 points.Is the side any better than that? it would have put us 8th 5 points behind Liverpool.

Those i think were realistic expectations. There was unfortunately no belief that he could turn things around in the 2nd half of the season. No one was expecting too much just that he would get the best out of the players he had, you cannot ask anymore of a manager than that.

You can also judge a Manager after 1 season-it doesnt take longer than that.In this business a manager must prove himself every season to ensure he is the Manager next season.

As for this myth that you cannot be successfull by changing managers every season-that is rubbish-Espanyol have had 14 managers in 10 seasons and are now 3rd in the Spanish League.

[Guest Hoop Blah]

I'm amazed how little time Big Sam was given.

 

OK the football was pretty dire at times but you lot have to be realistic.  The foundations of a successful team are going to take a long time to instill at your club, and it ain't gunna be pretty watching that happen.  Unfortunately for you you've just sacked one of the managers around at the moment who was both capable and willing to do that at Newcastle.

 

I know it's been said elsewhere but look at Martin O'Neil at Villa.  They had a long spell of not winning games, and although they got results at the start of last season they also played some very very negative football whilst O'Neil stamped his authority and style on the club.

 

Redknapp is one of the favourites for your job now Allardyce has gone.  How do you think you lot woud react to the 8 games without a goal at home that Pompey have witnessed recently?  You'd have the manager sacked.

 

It's a shame because yours is a club that could be challenging the big boys at the top of the league if only you had the patience to let a manager get hold of the club and manage.

[madras]

how many times do we have to spell it out.

 

 

IT WAS THE PERFORMANCES NOT THE RESULTS THAT DONE HIM IN !

 

seven months,20 games of no sign of improvemnet by a manager not of the owners choosing would get rid of any manager at any club.

[Keefaz]

how many times do we have to spell it out.

 

 

IT WAS THE PERFORMANCES NOT THE RESULTS THAT DONE HIM IN !

 

seven months,20 games of no sign of improvemnet by a manager not of the owners choosing would get rid of any manager at any club.

 

I suspect the players fucking hated him too, which probably didn't help. Mort's going, 'Hang on. This fella's making all my employees miserable and we're underperforming. Hmmmm...'

[David Icke - Son of God]

The thing is, the teams who are praised to no end, such as Blackburn, Villa, Portsmouth aren't too much higher on the table than us, and they've had much more time. Why couldn't we put up with Sam for another 2 years? Why is it, that teams such as Blackburn, Villa and Portsmouth who have been performing better than us in the last few seasons, are praised for around the same level of results which gets Big Sam sacked?

 

I think if you've paid 450 quid for a season ticket, not to mention the cost of away games, to be bored shitless you've got the right to be impatient.  People will put up with it if the team wins but they won't if they see them lose trying to stop the opposition from playing.  The paying customers are the ones that got Allardyce sacked imo - they want to see the team win or they want entertainment.  The teams you mention are far more entertaining than us this season at least imo, and shown more ambition in their football, even if their points tally isn't significantly better.

 

I'm going to commit a cardinal sin here....

 

If you don't like it, don't go. The attitude of some of the fans is having a detrimental effect on the club as a whole because 'the football isn't entertaining' or 'the results aren't good enough'. To me this smacks of the whole 'rather lose 4-3 than win 1-0' argument again. Our fans are seen as fickle and rightly so, we were massively spoilt under Keegan and SBR and some fans fail to realise that. They think success can be achieved instantly, well it can't. Every manager needs time and it's a crying shame BSA wasn't given it.

 

When the next managerial appointment comes in and it's not Mourinho/Lippi/Hiddink etc. then how long will it take for the booing to start again?

[Dan Gleebals]

New owners, not their manager, shit performances - no suprise really.  He brought it on himself with negative, clueless football.  He was scared to give it a go and I do blame the fans for that.

 

You cannot blame the board however.  Asley has spent shit loads on our club and he wants to see steps foward and not a load of disgruntled and unhappy fans.  He has, uinlike our last chairman, spent time with the fans and I am sure he has taken on the views that he has heard.

 

Above all, timing was not great in the whole transfer of ownership and for these reasons I think it might have been why Sam always appeared on the back foot.

 

We are in the shit now IMO.  Who the fook would want to manage our club given our reputation.  Only a big step up in quality of the manager will do and only to someone who is going to keep the fans happy with entertaining football as this is afterall, what most of us seem to consider acceptable (despite winning fook all).

 

The winning combination it seems is to have a manager that will play good football yet be good enough to one, build a club up and two, achieve success in a short space of time.  Otherwise, they will be the 12th manager in quick succession.  This trend has to end and now.

 

The next appointment is so crucial its not funny.  On that basis I am worried.  Yes we have a loaded owner and a commercial chairman, but they are not football people.  Lets hope for everyone concerned they do something right and get the right person in.

[Guest Sniffer]

We won't see success here until we get relegated and then come back up, I'm starting to believe that more and more.

 

I was going to say that but feared i may be tracked down and raped for such a suggestion

 

Early in the year but I'd like to nominate Janitor as the dumbest poster on here so far and Decky a nose behind for his " Hmmm....that sounds like a good idea, why didn't I post that" ?

 

I'm sure all of the clubs relegated so far from the premier league welcomed it, especially the chairmen. So fucking stupid.

[Guest johnson293]

I'm going to commit a cardinal sin here....

 

If you don't like it, don't go. The attitude of some of the fans is having a detrimental effect on the club as a whole because 'the football isn't entertaining' or 'the results aren't good enough'. To me this smacks of the whole 'rather lose 4-3 than win 1-0' argument again. Our fans are seen as fickle and rightly so, we were massively spoilt under Keegan and SBR and some fans fail to realise that. They think success can be achieved instantly, well it can't. Every manager needs time and it's a crying shame BSA wasn't given it.

 

When the next managerial appointment comes in and it's not Mourinho/Lippi/Hiddink etc. then how long will it take for the booing to start again?

 

Nail on head!

 

Excellent post!! 

[madras]

I'm going to commit a cardinal sin here....

 

If you don't like it, don't go. The attitude of some of the fans is having a detrimental effect on the club as a whole because 'the football isn't entertaining' or 'the results aren't good enough'. To me this smacks of the whole 'rather lose 4-3 than win 1-0' argument again. Our fans are seen as fickle and rightly so, we were massively spoilt under Keegan and SBR and some fans fail to realise that. They think success can be achieved instantly, well it can't. Every manager needs time and it's a crying shame BSA wasn't given it.

 

When the next managerial appointment comes in and it's not Mourinho/Lippi/Hiddink etc. then how long will it take for the booing to start again?

 

Nail on head!

 

Excellent post!! 

if the manager shows some improvement on the play served up by allardyce there'll be no booing.

 

if the managerfucks things up like allardyce then about 6months.

[Guest neesy111]

we we're GETTING WORSE BY EVERY GAME

 

We looked better under Roeder and he was clueless

 

If you look we are only 9 points from the relegation zone, and with our run in, i would not be suprised to see us get dragged down

 

If you have a 3-5 Year Plan, you need results and performances and something to show signs that things we're getting better, in fact they we're getting worse

[UV]

We won't see success here until we get relegated and then come back up, I'm starting to believe that more and more.

 

I was going to say that but feared i may be tracked down and raped for such a suggestion

 

Early in the year but I'd like to nominate Janitor as the dumbest poster on here so far and Decky a nose behind for his " Hmmm....that sounds like a good idea, why didn't I post that" ?

 

I'm sure all of the clubs relegated so far from the premier league welcomed it, especially the chairmen. So f****** stupid.

 

No, no, no you don't understand. It's the expectations of the supporters that make us play s*** football, and boos after some bad performances months ago that have caused Allardyce to be sacked by the chairman now. In reality Sunderland are miles ahead of us because they've already been relegated (in fact they did it twice just to make really sure of being successful). Soon enough other teams like Liverpool will realise what they've been doing wrong - all this winning the Champion's League nonsense has massively hampered their hopes of ever winning the league. They need to get themselves relegated to be more successful, the fools, and if we don't wake up and listen to people like The Janitor & Decky soon we'll fall way behind in the relegation stakes.

[Keefaz]

[Guest Phil K]

No trophies in 50+ years - attendances in the top 3 in the league - impatient ??

[Guest johnson293]

No trophies in 50+ years - attendances in the top 3 in the league - impatient ??

No trophies in 39 years actually!

 

Attendances only really increased when Keegan was here - both times. Yes, the crowds stayed in the years after the 'second coming', but thast probably due to people hoping the next manager will be 'the one', and season ticket holders who dont wanna risk giving up their tickets, incasse they miss out on the next flirt with the top 5/6.

 

I'm sure there's quite a few top flight teams who haven't won anything for years...maybe longer than us, but who don't seem to 'expect' trophies and success like we do...for some reason!

[Guest jimmy1982]

It's not the fans expectations that have got him the sack, as Madras said it's the fact that there has been no improvement and he wasn't their man. The behaviour of some of our supporters just gives the papers, SSN and half wit supporters of other clubs something to wet themselves about.

 

It is easy to confuse the sacking with the fact that these days a lot of the season ticket holders, and even a fair few away match goers, don't know what it's all about. I must admit over the last few season's a couple of times, when the idiot woman who sits next to us has just come out with another cringeworthy abomination of a comment about the team's play or booed a substitution, or when the bloke behind is whingeing on, in his horrible southern accent, about Nicky Butt as soon as he's misplaced one pass even if he's been single-handedly stopping the oppostion from ripping our back doors off for the previous 70 minutes, or when I've been away from home, surrounded by more than 1000 complete glakes singing "who are ya" or "shall we sing a song for you" etc to the home supporters, I've caught myself wishing we'd get relegated so these people would all go back to gardening or beating their wives or whatever else they did before they realised they didn't have anything better to do with 500 quid and thought they might as well spend it on going to the match. This only lasts for about 10 seconds before I snap out of it and realise how ridiculous it is, and how far it would set us back or even ruin us, and feel ashamed that I even thought it.

 

I remember reading a comment by Wenger before Christmas where he said English football had lost it's soul - he is right in more ways than he probably realises.

[brummie]

The thing is, the teams who are praised to no end, such as Blackburn, Villa, Portsmouth aren't too much higher on the table than us, and they've had much more time. Why couldn't we put up with Sam for another 2 years? Why is it, that teams such as Blackburn, Villa and Portsmouth who have been performing better than us in the last few seasons, are praised for around the same level of results which gets Big Sam sacked?

 

 

That's an interesting point. This doesn't stand up to any scrutiny other than raw figures, however observe this:

 

Big Sam at Newcastle this season, league and cup (24 games)

 

Won 8, Drew 6 and Lost 10 = 30 "points"

 

MON last season, league and cup (24 games)

 

Won 7, Drew 10 and Lost 7 = 31 "points" ie virtually identical.

 

Obviously, this takes absolutely no account of the quality of football played and what it was like to watch - I can imagine it was poor, and I suspect it was the deciding factor in this case, and also takes no account of the assets both managers started the season with, but his results weren't actually that bad (and again, I acknowledge the flukiness of some of them).

 

[UV]

The thing is, the teams who are praised to no end, such as Blackburn, Villa, Portsmouth aren't too much higher on the table than us, and they've had much more time. Why couldn't we put up with Sam for another 2 years? Why is it, that teams such as Blackburn, Villa and Portsmouth who have been performing better than us in the last few seasons, are praised for around the same level of results which gets Big Sam sacked?

 

 

That's an interesting point. This doesn't stand up to any scrutiny other than raw figures, however observe this:

 

Big Sam at Newcastle this season, league and cup (24 games)

 

Won 8, Drew 6 and Lost 10 = 30 "points"

 

MON last season, league and cup (24 games)

 

Won 7, Drew 10 and Lost 7 = 31 "points" ie virtually identical.

 

Obviously, this takes absolutely no account of the quality of football played and what it was like to watch - I can imagine it was poor, and I suspect it was the deciding factor in this case, and also takes no account of the assets both managers started the season with, but his results weren't actually that bad (and again, I acknowledge the flukiness of some of them).

 

 

I can't remember the exact scenario, but wasn't O'Neil wanted by your new chairman even if it was Ellis who appointed him? I not convinced Ashley would have picked Allardyce as manager given a free choice, and so he was always going to have to prove himself without getting much leeway.

 

People who think it's the supporters who got Allardyce sacked should get a grip on reality (and I don't care what PR bullshit Mort will inevitably come out with about listening to what the the fans wanted). This is the owner & chairman's decision based on their expectations and perception of results.

[brummie]

I can't remember the exact scenario, but wasn't O'Neil wanted by your new chairman even if it was Ellis who appointed him? I not convinced Ashley would have picked Allardyce as manager given a free choice, and so he was always going to have to prove himself without getting much leeway.

 

People who think it's the supporters who got Allardyce sacked should get a grip on reality (and I don't care what PR bullshit Mort will inevitably come out with about listening to what the the fans wanted). This is the owner & chairman's decision based on their expectations and perception of results.

 

Lerner wanted Klinsmann at first, but then changed his tune when he realised all the other interested buyers wanted MON.

 

Ashley must have been in a very tricky situation here though - he probably backed the manager enough to give him more time, but didn't have enough belief in him to let him spend however many millions in the transfer window.

 

Looked at from that point of view, the timing probably makes sense (although it is easy to put together a convincing argument to the contrary).

 

 

[Guest Mucky01]

dont know if its now because of the internet, or just accumulated since the ‘Souness/Fat Fred OUT’ protests, but its mob rules at SJP and now the rot has set in Ashley will never again be able to enjoy sitting with the fans.