madras Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Allardyce couldn't beat top-table sides, he couldn't beat mid-table fodder, he lost to relegation candidates, and failed to beat Premiership promotion candidates. We sit 11th in the table, with trips to pretty much all the big four and a tougher line up than most... How close would Allardyce have to take us to the relegation battle before his sacking was necessary would you say Parky? We wouldn't have been relegated or been close to it this season. There are too many hopeless sides below us. We're 11th ffs!! People don't need the to create a spectre of relegation to justify this and if they do then it shows we are collectively grasping at straws to make ourselves feel better at what we clearly see as fundamental failure of judgement. http://xkcd.com/258/ Yeah, you're right Parkster, there are plenty of hopeless sides below us. Like Derby for instance. And the mighty Wigan. Now only if we could take points off them! Are you happy at how this change in manager has been handled? The timing? The cost? The lack of ambition? Happy? No. Do I feel it was necessary? Yes. Just like many of you felt Sam needed time to do things his way, why shouldn't Ashley be granted that same privilege? Ashley's first test should be assessed on the next managerial appointment. Who that is, remains to be seen, of course. He's in Hong Kong. so ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Allardyce couldn't beat top-table sides, he couldn't beat mid-table fodder, he lost to relegation candidates, and failed to beat Premiership promotion candidates. We sit 11th in the table, with trips to pretty much all the big four and a tougher line up than most... How close would Allardyce have to take us to the relegation battle before his sacking was necessary would you say Parky? We wouldn't have been relegated or been close to it this season. There are too many hopeless sides below us. We're 11th ffs!! People don't need the to create a spectre of relegation to justify this and if they do then it shows we are collectively grasping at straws to make ourselves feel better at what we clearly see as fundamental failure of judgement. You may be right about the title of this thread - we won't know until the new manager is appointed - but you are certainly wrong about your last assumption - 'we wouldn't have been relegated...' How do you know that ? The team has failed to beat sides who a decent team would take points from in order to be certain of safety, and we now have a series of really difficult games against top sides, most of whom will almost certainly beat us ; it just takes a couple of the bottom 4 to put a decent run together, and we could be right down there with them....make no mistake - we ARE a 'hopeless side' as you put it - we didn't even make Wigan break sweat, so don't use this as a reason that we should have held on to Allardyce... Whether Redknapp will be any better is anyone's guess.... if we end up with him, I may well agree with the title of your post..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Are you happy at how this change in manager has been handled? The timing? The cost? The lack of ambition? We still dont know enough of the facts to say they have failed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Allardyce couldn't beat top-table sides, he couldn't beat mid-table fodder, he lost to relegation candidates, and failed to beat Premiership promotion candidates. We sit 11th in the table, with trips to pretty much all the big four and a tougher line up than most... How close would Allardyce have to take us to the relegation battle before his sacking was necessary would you say Parky? We wouldn't have been relegated or been close to it this season. There are too many hopeless sides below us. We're 11th ffs!! People don't need the to create a spectre of relegation to justify this and if they do then it shows we are collectively grasping at straws to make ourselves feel better at what we clearly see as fundamental failure of judgement. Part of the longer term problem now will be is that it is clear that that the role of the owner is too blurred with the safety net of an independant thinking chairman. Regardless of how Redknapp performs I see no due dilligence in this. We're 11th and 9 points above the relegation zone, out of the 10 teams above us we still have to play away to 7 of them, I don't think we would have got relegated but I could of seen us finishing the season than less points than we did under Roeder, Allardyce had lost the fans and was blaming the players, his time at Newcastle was over yet people were still demanding that he gets backed with money in January. Perhaps the people who thought we could attract the likes of Mourinho have just had a long overdue reality check. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Allardyce apologists are just hurt and prideful, otherwise this thread wouldn't be here tbh. If we appoint McClaren tomorrow, fiiiine make 12 gazillion more of these threads, but you can't snipe at Ashley until he's revealed his hand - and speculate until the cows come home - none of us know what it is yet. Freddy Shepherd has evidently soured you all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnson293 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Are you happy at how this change in manager has been handled? The timing? The cost? The lack of ambition? We still dont know enough of the facts to say they have failed. True - I am pinning my hopes that this long silence from the club means we have or are in the process of tying up a decent manager, that they had already targetted, and have simply refused to comment on the Hughes/Redknapp speculation to avoid revealing all too soon. Remember when Keegan was unveiled as manager by Sir John and the then new board? I dont remember much speculation at all about his appointment. Hopefully Ashley and Mort are trying to carry off the same trick. /crosses fingers/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Ever since SBR it's been one disappointment after another. The day Souness, Roeder and Allardyce were appointed you could predict exactly what was going to happen and unless something rather surprising occurs under Redknapp he isn't likely to last more than 18 months. Yet again fans will get on his back early and he will become the same joke figure that Allardyce became. "Not up to the job" etc... We need a manager who can instill some hope and belief, not somebody as waffer thin as the likes of Redknapp, Souness and Roeder. Someone who when things are not going that well the fans actually will stand by. A big name of proven quality who has handled the big clubs and players. That's the manager I have wanted for the past 3 years and it looks like we going to fail again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thenorthumbrian Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Have Ashley and Mort even tried to look to Europe for proven coaches with track records of success ?It doesn't look like it so the argument that Ashley and Mort have failed their first test is right. With bringing Redknapp in means that they are bringing in a manager due to some kind of old pals act. For first time in a very long time (if Redknapp becomes manager) I will give up on Newcastle United and not renew my season ticket. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Allardyce apologists are just hurt and prideful, otherwise this thread wouldn't be here tbh. If we appoint McClaren tomorrow, fiiiine make 12 gazillion more of these threads, but you can't snipe at Ashley until he's revealed his hand - and speculate until the cows come home - none of us know what it is yet. Freddy Shepherd has evidently soured you all! Why then has there not been a statement denying the Harry rumous as there already has been saying Shearer will not be considered? I don't expect an answer btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Ever since SBR it's been one disappointment after another. The day Souness, Roeder and Allardyce were appointed you could predict exactly what was going to happen and unless something rather surprising occurs under Redknapp he isn't likely to last more than 18 months. Yet again fans will get on his back early and he will become the same joke figure that Allardyce became. "Not up to the job" etc... We need a manager who can instill some hope and belief, not somebody as waffer thin as the likes of Redknapp. Someone who when things are not going that great the fans actually will stand by. A big name of proven quality who has handled the big clubs and players. That's the manager I have wanted for the past 3 years and it looks like we going to fail again. who ? if you go for the mourinhos you'll be looking at a massive transfer kitty which would be nice but we cant demand a bloke who has bailed us out to give up half his wealth for us. it's a tad like a greedy kid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Allardyce couldn't beat top-table sides, he couldn't beat mid-table fodder, he lost to relegation candidates, and failed to beat Premiership promotion candidates. We sit 11th in the table, with trips to pretty much all the big four and a tougher line up than most... How close would Allardyce have to take us to the relegation battle before his sacking was necessary would you say Parky? We wouldn't have been relegated or been close to it this season. There are too many hopeless sides below us. We're 11th ffs!! People don't need the to create a spectre of relegation to justify this and if they do then it shows we are collectively grasping at straws to make ourselves feel better at what we clearly see as fundamental failure of judgement. Part of the longer term problem now will be is that it is clear that that the role of the owner is too blurred with the safety net of an independant thinking chairman. Regardless of how Redknapp performs I see no due dilligence in this. We're 11th and 9 points above the relegation zone, out of the 10 teams above us we still have to play away to 7 of them, I don't think we would have got relegated but I could of seen us finishing the season than less points than we did under Roeder, Allardyce had lost the fans and was blaming the players, his time at Newcastle was over yet people were still demanding that he gets backed with money in January. Perhaps the people who thought we could attract the likes of Mourinho have just had a long overdue reality check. It's hilarious that you don't admit that given time and due dilligence we can't attract a quality manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 If there was a simmering discontent with Sammy Dice at the highest level and doubts had begun to be voiced, especially within the context of the growing evidence of supporter disenchantment with performances, would it not have been better to wait till the summer? If as it seems Ashley was growing impatient to stamp his mark on the club, shouldn't he (with no football background and scant knowledge) have held fire till a longer period of deliberation and discussion was available ie the summer. A time when many more managers get itchy feet, get fired, or end associations with national teams. Wouldn't the wisest move in all reality have been to take stock and canvass opionion from experts, contacts, agents and friends during the summer break? Pick a man from a shortlist carefully assembled, perhaps a world class or international class manager. What exactly is the driving force behind this farce? Please help me. Got to agree with you there mate. It doesn't make a lot of sense. I think we were all hoping a truly quality manager a la Mourinho had somehow been lured here when Allardyce got the heave-ho. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Allardyce couldn't beat top-table sides, he couldn't beat mid-table fodder, he lost to relegation candidates, and failed to beat Premiership promotion candidates. We sit 11th in the table, with trips to pretty much all the big four and a tougher line up than most... How close would Allardyce have to take us to the relegation battle before his sacking was necessary would you say Parky? We wouldn't have been relegated or been close to it this season. There are too many hopeless sides below us. We're 11th ffs!! People don't need the to create a spectre of relegation to justify this and if they do then it shows we are collectively grasping at straws to make ourselves feel better at what we clearly see as fundamental failure of judgement. Part of the longer term problem now will be is that it is clear that that the role of the owner is too blurred with the safety net of an independant thinking chairman. Regardless of how Redknapp performs I see no due dilligence in this. We're 11th and 9 points above the relegation zone, out of the 10 teams above us we still have to play away to 7 of them, I don't think we would have got relegated but I could of seen us finishing the season than less points than we did under Roeder, Allardyce had lost the fans and was blaming the players, his time at Newcastle was over yet people were still demanding that he gets backed with money in January. Perhaps the people who thought we could attract the likes of Mourinho have just had a long overdue reality check. It's hilarious that you don't admit that given time and due dilligence we can't attract a quality manager. like who ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnson293 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Have Ashley and Mort even tried to look to Europe for proven coaches with track records of success ?It doesn't look like it so the argument that Ashley and Mort have failed their first test is right. With bringing Redknapp in means that they are bringing in a manager due to some kind of old pals act. For first time in a very long time (if Redknapp becomes manager) I will give up on Newcastle United and not renew my season ticket. Until any appiontment is made, we dont know where they have looked, or even who they have approached. All we have is speculation from Sky Sports, basically covering as many options as possible - all just from 'sources within the club' For all we know, they could be elsewhere in the UK, or in the world handing a contract and shiny pen to Mr Mourinho or Lippi os we speak??!!! Lets just wait and see whether Sky and/or the Bookies are even close, before declaring they have failed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 IF Redknapp is appointed then i agree with Parky. Big Sam would not of got us relegated, we could of waited to the summer at least when there could have been more and better options available. I just cannot see the sense in appointing a manager who is only slightly better than the current one at this time. This was their first big decision and they should of aimed a lot higher. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 IF Redknapp is appointed then i agree with Parky. Big Sam would not of got us relegated, we could of waited to the summer at least when there could of been more and better options available. I just cannot see the sense in appointing a manager who is only slightly better than the current one at this time. This was their first big decision and they should of aimed a lot higher. FYP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Li3nZ Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 If there was a simmering discontent with Sammy Dice at the highest level and doubts had begun to be voiced, especially within the context of the growing evidence of supporter disenchantment with performances, would it not have been better to wait till the summer? If as it seems Ashley was growing impatient to stamp his mark on the club, shouldn't he (with no football background and scant knowledge) have held fire till a longer period of deliberation and discussion was available ie the summer. A time when many more managers get itchy feet, get fired, or end associations with national teams. Wouldn't the wisest move in all reality have been to take stock and canvass opionion from experts, contacts, agents and friends during the summer break? Pick a man from a shortlist carefully assembled, perhaps a world class or international class manager. What exactly is the driving force behind this farce? Please help me. Which part of this is the definition of failure? Surely this can only be defined with hindsight? Unless this process delivers a world class manager it is a total faiure in communications of what we are as a club and what we are about regarding long term goals and how we want to work and build. Well in response to that I would say 1. If we DO deliver a "world class manager", by whatever means defines such a thing, then it certainly ISN'T a failure - this is something Allardyce was not. 2. If we appoint someone like Harry Redknapp, then this appointment can surely not be judged on the very day (or in this case before) he signs contract? I am not saying I particularly like the sound of Redknapp as our next manager, like the rest of us I would like to see someone like Mourinho.... Regardless, whoever it is can not be ruled out as a failure the day he signs the contract! Sure, everyone will have an opinion on whoever it is, but for this to be a failure it needs to stand the test of time. The way he works, his style of play, team performances, the way he can change a game, (all attributes SA seemed to be lacking) along with the rest of it should surely decide if he is a failure. Whoever it is, let's support them, at least on day one anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 ta Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Allardyce couldn't beat top-table sides, he couldn't beat mid-table fodder, he lost to relegation candidates, and failed to beat Premiership promotion candidates. We sit 11th in the table, with trips to pretty much all the big four and a tougher line up than most... How close would Allardyce have to take us to the relegation battle before his sacking was necessary would you say Parky? We wouldn't have been relegated or been close to it this season. There are too many hopeless sides below us. We're 11th ffs!! People don't need the to create a spectre of relegation to justify this and if they do then it shows we are collectively grasping at straws to make ourselves feel better at what we clearly see as fundamental failure of judgement. Part of the longer term problem now will be is that it is clear that that the role of the owner is too blurred with the safety net of an independant thinking chairman. Regardless of how Redknapp performs I see no due dilligence in this. We're 11th and 9 points above the relegation zone, out of the 10 teams above us we still have to play away to 7 of them, I don't think we would have got relegated but I could of seen us finishing the season than less points than we did under Roeder, Allardyce had lost the fans and was blaming the players, his time at Newcastle was over yet people were still demanding that he gets backed with money in January. Perhaps the people who thought we could attract the likes of Mourinho have just had a long overdue reality check. It's hilarious that you don't admit that given time and due dilligence we can't attract a quality manager. like who ? Surely a question for Mashley? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 IF Redknapp is appointed then i agree with Parky. Big Sam would not of got us relegated, we could of waited to the summer at least when there could have been more and better options available. I just cannot see the sense in appointing a manager who is only slightly better than the current one at this time. This was their first big decision and they should of aimed a lot higher. I don't understand why people don't see this as sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Allardyce couldn't beat top-table sides, he couldn't beat mid-table fodder, he lost to relegation candidates, and failed to beat Premiership promotion candidates. We sit 11th in the table, with trips to pretty much all the big four and a tougher line up than most... How close would Allardyce have to take us to the relegation battle before his sacking was necessary would you say Parky? We wouldn't have been relegated or been close to it this season. There are too many hopeless sides below us. We're 11th ffs!! People don't need the to create a spectre of relegation to justify this and if they do then it shows we are collectively grasping at straws to make ourselves feel better at what we clearly see as fundamental failure of judgement. Part of the longer term problem now will be is that it is clear that that the role of the owner is too blurred with the safety net of an independant thinking chairman. Regardless of how Redknapp performs I see no due dilligence in this. We're 11th and 9 points above the relegation zone, out of the 10 teams above us we still have to play away to 7 of them, I don't think we would have got relegated but I could of seen us finishing the season than less points than we did under Roeder, Allardyce had lost the fans and was blaming the players, his time at Newcastle was over yet people were still demanding that he gets backed with money in January. Perhaps the people who thought we could attract the likes of Mourinho have just had a long overdue reality check. It's hilarious that you don't admit that given time and due dilligence we can't attract a quality manager. like who ? Surely a question for Mashley? which he's answered with redknapp. his view will be he's always done ok with limited resources and played good attractive attacking football...what can he do with extra resources but not the sort of resources that could attract the glitterati of the mangerial world Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthiGeordie Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 In football only Sir Alex and Wenger are unreplacable everyone else can be replaced but it is a matter of who... Ashley stated he doesn't have time with the fan if the current thing is continue as long as he hire an astute manger I think he is fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 If there was a simmering discontent with Sammy Dice at the highest level and doubts had begun to be voiced, especially within the context of the growing evidence of supporter disenchantment with performances, would it not have been better to wait till the summer? If as it seems Ashley was growing impatient to stamp his mark on the club, shouldn't he (with no football background and scant knowledge) have held fire till a longer period of deliberation and discussion was available ie the summer. A time when many more managers get itchy feet, get fired, or end associations with national teams. Wouldn't the wisest move in all reality have been to take stock and canvass opionion from experts, contacts, agents and friends during the summer break? Pick a man from a shortlist carefully assembled, perhaps a world class or international class manager. What exactly is the driving force behind this farce? Please help me. Which part of this is the definition of failure? Surely this can only be defined with hindsight? Unless this process delivers a world class manager it is a total faiure in communications of what we are as a club and what we are about regarding long term goals and how we want to work and build. Well in response to that I would say 1. If we DO deliver a "world class manager", by whatever means defines such a thing, then it certainly ISN'T a failure - this is something Allardyce was not. 2. If we appoint someone like Harry Redknapp, then this appointment can surely not be judged on the very day (or in this case before) he signs contract? I am not saying I particularly like the sound of Redknapp as our next manager, like the rest of us I would like to see someone like Mourinho.... Regardless, whoever it is can not be ruled out as a failure the day he signs the contract! Sure, everyone will have an opinion on whoever it is, but for this to be a failure it needs to stand the test of time. The way he works, his style of play, team performances, the way he can change a game, (all attributes SA seemed to be lacking) along with the rest of it should surely decide if he is a failure. Whoever it is, let's support them, at least on day one anyway. A failed process produces a failed result. Every single time and without fail. It is almost one of the given laws of business.If it is Nappy and he does do well, then that will be luck it sure won't be anything to do with this farcical process that has chosen him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Toon Barmy Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 (with no football background and scant knowledge) name one owner/chairman with more knowledege than ours? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Allardyce couldn't beat top-table sides, he couldn't beat mid-table fodder, he lost to relegation candidates, and failed to beat Premiership promotion candidates. We sit 11th in the table, with trips to pretty much all the big four and a tougher line up than most... How close would Allardyce have to take us to the relegation battle before his sacking was necessary would you say Parky? We wouldn't have been relegated or been close to it this season. There are too many hopeless sides below us. We're 11th ffs!! People don't need the to create a spectre of relegation to justify this and if they do then it shows we are collectively grasping at straws to make ourselves feel better at what we clearly see as fundamental failure of judgement. Part of the longer term problem now will be is that it is clear that that the role of the owner is too blurred with the safety net of an independant thinking chairman. Regardless of how Redknapp performs I see no due dilligence in this. We're 11th and 9 points above the relegation zone, out of the 10 teams above us we still have to play away to 7 of them, I don't think we would have got relegated but I could of seen us finishing the season than less points than we did under Roeder, Allardyce had lost the fans and was blaming the players, his time at Newcastle was over yet people were still demanding that he gets backed with money in January. Perhaps the people who thought we could attract the likes of Mourinho have just had a long overdue reality check. It's hilarious that you don't admit that given time and due dilligence we can't attract a quality manager. like who ? Surely a question for Mashley? which he's answered with redknapp. his view will be he's always done ok with limited resources and played good attractive attacking football...what can he do with extra resources but not the sort of resources that could attract the glitterati of the mangerial world So a Billionaire takes over a club and starts looking for a manager ''that has done ok''? What's wrong with this picture? Quality managers normally only need two things: a promised transfer fund they like the look of and a rock and roll wage packet. All the other stuff people babble about on here is cack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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