Fans to blame? F*ck off!

[Cajun]

When was Emre ever anything special? Maybe 5 games (being generous) where he actually used his ability the rest of the time he was injured or getting over being injured. Guthrie putting in 30 decent games over a season is already much more than what Emre offered us.

 

You said the squad had not improved. I disagree quite strongly. The first 11 has even improved by 2/3 maybe 4 players depending on how Xisco and Nacho pan out but as much as I can't use them in defence of my argument you can't use them to justify yours.

 

Before Keegan went I would say the majority were happy with the squad although most would have preferred a couple more quality first team players as do most fans of most clubs.

[NJS]

Coloccini?

 

5 words: Abdoulaye Faye and Carlton f***ing Cole

 

Abdoulaye Faye is as good as Coloccini is he?

 

In my opinion theres not much difference - both look half decent but not top notch.

 

People have gone way over the top about him and Jonas - its probably too long since we had any decent players which may explain it but I'll judge it over more than 5 games.

 

I was extremely worried about what I saw today from Collocini.

 

 

[Teasy]

He didn't have a great game, in a team of poor performers, but was still better then the rest.  He can't be really good every game, he's a much better player then Faye though and Gutierrez is a very good player as well.

[NJS]

When was Emre ever anything special? Maybe 5 games (being generous) where he actually used his ability the rest of the time he was injured or getting over being injured. Guthrie putting in 30 decent games over a season is already much more than what Emre offered us.

 

You said the squad had not improved. I disagree quite strongly. The first 11 has even improved by 2/3 maybe 4 players depending on how Xisco and Nacho pan out but as much as I can't use them in defence of my argument you can't use them to justify yours.

 

Before Keegan went I would say the majority were happy with the squad although most would have preferred a couple more quality first team players as do most fans of most clubs.

 

Allowing for less injury prone players it may have improved from a team which will finish 14th to one which will finish 11th. I expect a little more but then again I guess I'm deluded.

 

 

[tmonkey]

Do you have proof of all this? I know he said it in his mag interview but this system of his has done nothing but bad and this debt payment is him increasing the value of the club either way you spin it. As for good intentions, like getting pissed in New York when all this was going tits up? Or how about undermining his manager, surely if you want whats best for the club you don't allow that to happen, not when you've stated the manager has final say anyway.

 

I have statements from Mike Ashley, as do you. That's the only reputable source of information we have right now with respect to the club's debts, well Shepherd more or less confirmed all the suspicions but then he's done so craftily without revealing the true amount of the debt that Ashey has had to face (only the largest one).

 

As for paying off the debt, thats a massive thing to do for the club. Had he not done so, where would we be financing our transfers from? The £10m on Oba, the £17m on Owen, the various amounts of various expensive acquisitions - all purchased on credit using collateral of future income. Had he not repaid the debt, we might have had a net spend of minus 20mill instead of zero for all we know? There was a reason why the Halls were so desperate to sell that they flogged it to the first person who would take it, irrespective of what Shepherd intended to do with his 30% stake in the club.

 

Getting pissed in New York - its funny how Ashley is criticised for undermining Keegan, yet when Keegan has walked, he's criticised for having no responsibility in running the club. Maybe Ashley had no role to play in the undermining of Keegan, and didnt even know about it until Keegan had walked? Maybe Ashley was getting pissed in New York whilst Keegan was being undermined by Wise/Llambias? And maybe Ashley wasn't just getting pissed in New York, maybe he had important business to attend to, and merely had a party thrown in the meantime because he's a mega wealthy man and that's what alot of them do in their spare time?

 

What exactly do we know about this unfortunate series of events? My guess is very little. Aside from the fact that the NOTW editor who paid £50k for that picture of Ashley with a beer in his hand and a few nice girls posing alongside him (at least he wasnt shagging someone in a brothel) is probably rubbing his hands with glee at all the commotion it has caused.

[NJS]

He didn't have a great game, in a team of poor performers, but was still better then the rest.  He can't be really good every game, he's a much better player then Faye though and Gutierrez is a very good player as well.

 

Going by today he will struggle against muscular CFs - I would love to have seen him and Faye together who I think you're wrong about.

 

 

[Guest toonlass]

Of course its the fans fault. The fans made Ashley appoint Denis Wise as some kind of fucking director of mayhem at the club to undermine probably the best manager we have had since the 1960's. The fans were the ones who wouldn't pay out money to bring in proven quality when we know that is what is needed at this club to make it move anywhere. The fans were the ones who had these showdown talks with Keegan, where Derek Llambias reckons he needed someone else in the room so he wouldn't slap Keegan. The fans were the ones who have said not a fucking dickybird that can be believed in the last three weeks. Hang on a minute, the fans are the ones who pump the money into this club year on year, knowing full well that we will most probably come out with nothing at the end of the season, the 50,000 Geordies who went to the Hull game supported the team, the muppets on Sky were not indicitive of the fans who turn up rain or shine (infact I would bet any money that the ones who spent the whole of the week outside St James after Sky broke the news would be lucky to have a handful of match attendances between them). Of course it is the fans fault, it wouldn't be the fault of a certain Mr Mike Ashley or Kevin Keegan would it. Our fans still went down to Upton Park today and backed the frigging team, unfortunately the team started the game as if they thought the ball would explode if it came anywhere near them.

[fredbob]

Keegan is replaceable there are better managers out there and there are managers out there who have achieved more than him who would of been interested in the job.

 

Go on.....

 

 

 

 

Deschamps, Terim, arguably Zico. Maybe even Houllier would have a stab at the job....

 

2 for sure anyway.

[NJS]

Keegan is replaceable there are better managers out there and there are managers out there who have achieved more than him who would of been interested in the job.

 

Go on.....

 

 

 

 

Deschamps, Terim, arguably Zico. Maybe even Houllier would have a stab at the job....

 

2 for sure anyway.

 

Dechamps who quit two clubs for disagreements with the board?

 

Zico who won one title out of two with the Turkish Chelsea?

 

Houllier who spent 10s of millions and never came within a million miles of the title?

 

 

[fredbob]

 

The responsibility for what happened is spread around quite a few people/groups, including the fans.

 

But 99.99% of the responsibility lies with the owner.

 

He made the decisions, at various stages, that caused this to happen in the way that it did.

 

The buck stops with the owner.

 

So if he is at fault which to be honest i can agree with ( he shouldnt of employed keegan in the first place, naiveity, etc,etc), does that mean that it is still right to try and force him out after one mistake - albeit a massive one, which wouldnt of affected the club massively had he follwed up with a good appointment which was perfectly viable?

 

the protests just seemed so disproportionate to the issue in the grand scheme of things.

 

Keegan is replaceable there are better managers out there and there are managers out there who have achieved more than him who would of been interested in the job.

 

and which 'one' was that?

 

humour me.....

 

I appreciate you want me to do your work for you . . .

 

Well, avoided. His one major mistake was appointing Keegan to fit in a system which wouldnt of suited Keegan.

 

What other things that you class as mistakes? I persoanlly value the system over the individual manager due to the situation we found ourselves in with the old system.

[Robster]

 

The responsibility for what happened is spread around quite a few people/groups, including the fans.

 

But 99.99% of the responsibility lies with the owner.

 

He made the decisions, at various stages, that caused this to happen in the way that it did.

 

The buck stops with the owner.

 

So if he is at fault which to be honest i can agree with ( he shouldnt of employed keegan in the first place, naiveity, etc,etc), does that mean that it is still right to try and force him out after one mistake - albeit a massive one, which wouldnt of affected the club massively had he follwed up with a good appointment which was perfectly viable?

 

the protests just seemed so disproportionate to the issue in the grand scheme of things.

 

Keegan is replaceable there are better managers out there and there are managers out there who have achieved more than him who would of been interested in the job.

 

and which 'one' was that?

 

humour me.....

 

I appreciate you want me to do your work for you . . .

 

Well, avoided. His one major mistake was appointing Keegan to fit in a system which wouldnt of suited Keegan.

 

What other things that you class as mistakes? I persoanlly value the system over the individual manager due to the situation we found ourselves in with the old system.

Appointing Dennis Wise ??

[Kimbo]

Keegan is replaceable there are better managers out there and there are managers out there who have achieved more than him who would of been interested in the job.

 

Go on.....

 

 

 

 

Deschamps, Terim, arguably Zico. Maybe even Houllier would have a stab at the job....

 

2 for sure anyway.

 

Dechamps who quit two clubs for disagreements with the board?

 

Zico who won one title out of two with the Turkish Chelsea?

 

Houllier who spent 10s of millions and never came within a million miles of the title?

 

I can play this game aswell.

 

Keegan who finished 2nd with the Chelsea of the mid-90s and walked out of every job he's been in.

[NJS]

I persoanlly value the system over the individual manager due to the situation we found ourselves in with the old system.

 

The old system wasn't the problem it was the poor choice of managers.

 

Woo takes responsibility for failure in your wonderful system?

[Robster]

Keegan is replaceable there are better managers out there and there are managers out there who have achieved more than him who would of been interested in the job.

 

Go on.....

 

 

 

 

Deschamps, Terim, arguably Zico. Maybe even Houllier would have a stab at the job....

 

2 for sure anyway.

 

Dechamps who quit two clubs for disagreements with the board?

 

Zico who won one title out of two with the Turkish Chelsea?

 

Houllier who spent 10s of millions and never came within a million miles of the title?

 

I can play this game aswell.

 

Keegan who finished 2nd with the Chelsea of the mid-90s and walked out of every job he's been in.

Your not very good at it. Its meant to be about who replaces Keegan

[NJS]

I can play this game aswell.

 

Keegan who finished 2nd with the Chelsea of the mid-90s and walked out of every job he's been in.

 

Oh do fuck off - when did we ever outspend Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal or Blackburn under Keegan?

 

 

[Kimbo]

I can play this game aswell.

 

Keegan who finished 2nd with the Chelsea of the mid-90s and walked out of every job he's been in.

 

Oh do f*** off - when did we ever outspend Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal or Blackburn under Keegan?

 

 

I have no figures available, but i would bet that we did outspend them under Keegan.

[Kimbo]

Keegan is replaceable there are better managers out there and there are managers out there who have achieved more than him who would of been interested in the job.

 

Go on.....

 

 

 

 

Deschamps, Terim, arguably Zico. Maybe even Houllier would have a stab at the job....

 

2 for sure anyway.

 

Dechamps who quit two clubs for disagreements with the board?

 

Zico who won one title out of two with the Turkish Chelsea?

 

Houllier who spent 10s of millions and never came within a million miles of the title?

 

I can play this game aswell.

 

Keegan who finished 2nd with the Chelsea of the mid-90s and walked out of every job he's been in.

Your not very good at it. Its meant to be about who replaces Keegan

 

Exactly, and Keegan IS replaceable. His record is no better than the names mentioned.

[fredbob]

Keegan is replaceable there are better managers out there and there are managers out there who have achieved more than him who would of been interested in the job.

 

Go on.....

 

 

 

 

Deschamps, Terim, arguably Zico. Maybe even Houllier would have a stab at the job....

 

2 for sure anyway.

 

Dechamps who quit two clubs for disagreements with the board? Achieved more than Keegan - CHECK

 

Zico who won one title out of two with the Turkish Chelsea? to be fair i didnt name him as a definite - can be argued either way

 

Houllier who spent 10s of millions and never came within a million miles of the title? Sound familiar? Lets forget about the shit load of silverware he's won mind...also came 2nd in the league.

 

Chose to ignore Terim then? UEFA cup winner and Euro 2008 Semi finalist?

 

 

[Robster]

 

Exactly, and Keegan IS replaceable. His record is no better than the names mentioned.

 

I agree mate. Only messing as its late and I'm knackered

 

i just wish he was replaced soon because this argument is rumbling on waaaaaay too long

[fredbob]

 

The responsibility for what happened is spread around quite a few people/groups, including the fans.

 

But 99.99% of the responsibility lies with the owner.

 

He made the decisions, at various stages, that caused this to happen in the way that it did.

 

The buck stops with the owner.

 

So if he is at fault which to be honest i can agree with ( he shouldnt of employed keegan in the first place, naiveity, etc,etc), does that mean that it is still right to try and force him out after one mistake - albeit a massive one, which wouldnt of affected the club massively had he follwed up with a good appointment which was perfectly viable?

 

the protests just seemed so disproportionate to the issue in the grand scheme of things.

 

Keegan is replaceable there are better managers out there and there are managers out there who have achieved more than him who would of been interested in the job.

 

and which 'one' was that?

 

humour me.....

 

I appreciate you want me to do your work for you . . .

 

Well, avoided. His one major mistake was appointing Keegan to fit in a system which wouldnt of suited Keegan.

 

What other things that you class as mistakes? I persoanlly value the system over the individual manager due to the situation we found ourselves in with the old system.

Appointing Dennis Wise ??

 

Part of the system which i value more than Keegan at this point and time - im depserate to see this policy come to fruitiion or at least definitely fail like the old policy. The playing staff so far would suggest that mabye it might work over the course of a few years, i can certainky wait.

[Guest The Libertine]

I can play this game aswell.

 

Keegan who finished 2nd with the Chelsea of the mid-90s and walked out of every job he's been in.

 

Oh do fuck off - when did we ever outspend Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal or Blackburn under Keegan?

 

 

 

keegan broke a world and british record in the space of a year. throw in tino and ferdinand and he's spent big and won nothing.

[NJS]

I can play this game aswell.

 

Keegan who finished 2nd with the Chelsea of the mid-90s and walked out of every job he's been in.

 

Oh do f*** off - when did we ever outspend Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal or Blackburn under Keegan?

 

 

I have no figures available, but i would bet that we did outspend them under Keegan.

 

Keegan spent about 18m net - Dalglish was the big spender with something like 38m

 

When we were spending 6m on Ferdinand, Arsenal were spending 8m on Bergkamp - its a myth that we were huge spenders.

 

 

 

[fredbob]

I persoanlly value the system over the individual manager due to the situation we found ourselves in with the old system.

 

The old system wasn't the problem it was the poor choice of managers.

 

Woo takes responsibility for failure in your wonderful system?

 

Its not been a failure - yet. Not after 6 months.

 

Ashley HAS to take the blame at the end of the day, i accept that but i dont think the fans hounding him out is anyway near acceptabe, hence to blame for the mess we're in. (The crux of this Thread).

 

I still think that Keegan put Ahlsey in a difficult spot though....

[Guest f***thepress]

Of course its the fans fault. The fans made Ashley appoint Denis Wise as some kind of f***ing director of mayhem at the club to undermine probably the best manager we have had since the 1960's. The fans were the ones who wouldn't pay out money to bring in proven quality when we know that is what is needed at this club to make it move anywhere. The fans were the ones who had these showdown talks with Keegan, where Derek Llambias reckons he needed someone else in the room so he wouldn't slap Keegan. The fans were the ones who have said not a f***ing dickybird that can be believed in the last three weeks. Hang on a minute, the fans are the ones who pump the money into this club year on year, knowing full well that we will most probably come out with nothing at the end of the season, the 50,000 Geordies who went to the Hull game supported the team, the muppets on Sky were not indicitive of the fans who turn up rain or shine (infact I would bet any money that the ones who spent the whole of the week outside St James after Sky broke the news would be lucky to have a handful of match attendances between them). Of course it is the fans fault, it wouldn't be the fault of a certain Mr Mike Ashley or Kevin Keegan would it. Our fans still went down to Upton Park today and backed the frigging team, unfortunately the team started the game as if they thought the ball would explode if it came anywhere near them.

 

This...

[NJS]

I persoanlly value the system over the individual manager due to the situation we found ourselves in with the old system.

 

The old system wasn't the problem it was the poor choice of managers.

 

Woo takes responsibility for failure in your wonderful system?

 

Its not been a failure - yet. Not after 6 months.

 

Ashley HAS to take the blame at the end of the day, i accept that but i dont think the fans hounding him out is anyway near acceptabe, hence to blame for the mess we're in. (The crux of this Thread).

 

I still think that Keegan put Ahlsey in a difficult spot though....

 

Has the squad improved to the extent where you think that 4 years down the line with similar windows we would be challenging for Europe?