Jonás Gutiérrez (now managing Club Almagro)

[TRon]

What I was suggesting is that if Nolan continues to struggle for goals and contribution now Carroll isn't there to help him (and he can only perform when Tiote is playing) then his position needs to be questioned.

 

And if given the choice I would probably leave him out for HBA rather than Jonas.

 

Nothing wrong with that in my book. Nolan's goals have been important but they have dried up lately. Without them he doesn't offer much so we definitely need him to start hitting the net a few times in the run in.

[Guest neesy111]

Sick of reading about how good he would be with a final ball. He's a super athlete and an atrocious footballer and folk are just going to have to come to terms with this. Hopefully with him sitting on the bench till the 75th minute.

 

There is nobody else on the books to play there. You're just going to have to come to terms with this.

 

Agreed. We have no-one else to play in his position anyway!

 

We do in a months time.

[Jayson]

Ben Arfa's pace & ability to pick out runs would combine well with Guti & his ability to break away. Guti has never really been complimented by that from any players around him bar Enrique who always starts behind him & those two have always combined well because of it.

 

Nolan will get more goals before this season is over if he keeps playing either way. Both have positive/negative attributes, lets just wait and see.

[Mick]

Nothing wrong with that in my book. Nolan's goals have been important but they have dried up lately. Without them he doesn't offer much so we definitely need him to start hitting the net a few times in the run in.

 

Nolan’s goals have brought us 3 points this season, we might have had a lot more points if we had somebody more effective in his position when he's not scoring.

[Guest toonlass]

Nothing wrong with that in my book. Nolan's goals have been important but they have dried up lately. Without them he doesn't offer much so we definitely need him to start hitting the net a few times in the run in.

 

Nolan’s goals have brought us 3 points this season, we might have had a lot more points if we had somebody more effective in his position when he's not scoring.

 

How many points have jonas's goals brought us?

[TRon]

Nothing wrong with that in my book. Nolan's goals have been important but they have dried up lately. Without them he doesn't offer much so we definitely need him to start hitting the net a few times in the run in.

 

Nolan’s goals have brought us 3 points this season, we might have had a lot more points if we had somebody more effective in his position when he's not scoring.

 

How many points have jonas's goals brought us?

 

Probably quite a few if you count the intangibles. You wouldn't score many goals if the ball was in your own half all the time. Seeing as Jonas is one of the few who can carry it deep into opposition territory from deep then he's probably had an indirect effect on points won.

[Mick]

How many points have jonas's goals brought us?

 

The same as Lovenkrands, none.

[Guest toonlass]

Nothing wrong with that in my book. Nolan's goals have been important but they have dried up lately. Without them he doesn't offer much so we definitely need him to start hitting the net a few times in the run in.

 

Nolan’s goals have brought us 3 points this season, we might have had a lot more points if we had somebody more effective in his position when he's not scoring.

 

How many points have jonas's goals brought us?

 

Probably quite a few if you count the intangibles. You wouldn't score many goals if the ball was in your own half all the time. Seeing as Jonas is one of the few who can carry it deep into opposition territory from deep then he's probably had an indirect effect on points won.

 

So If that is the case how can someone say Nolan only gained up 3 points?

[Frazzle]

Nothing wrong with that in my book. Nolan's goals have been important but they have dried up lately. Without them he doesn't offer much so we definitely need him to start hitting the net a few times in the run in.

 

Nolan’s goals have brought us 3 points this season, we might have had a lot more points if we had somebody more effective in his position when he's not scoring.

 

How do you work that one out?  It's a bit simplistic to take away his goals where we won by a big margin and only count goals that mathematically won the game.  Against Sunderland he won a point in the away game and set us on our way in the home game.  Are you saying that if we take away his goals against Sunderland we would've won 2-1 in the home game?

 

Also at West Ham away, without Nolan's goal, Carroll's goal wouldn't have been the winner.  Against West Ham at home he got the third goal to kill the game off, before that it was 2-0, not biggest margin to come back from as we all know!

 

I don't think you can just minus his goals and say we wouldn't won 2-1 etc. without them most of his goals have changed games.

 

[TRon]

Nothing wrong with that in my book. Nolan's goals have been important but they have dried up lately. Without them he doesn't offer much so we definitely need him to start hitting the net a few times in the run in.

 

Nolan’s goals have brought us 3 points this season, we might have had a lot more points if we had somebody more effective in his position when he's not scoring.

 

How many points have jonas's goals brought us?

 

Probably quite a few if you count the intangibles. You wouldn't score many goals if the ball was in your own half all the time. Seeing as Jonas is one of the few who can carry it deep into opposition territory from deep then he's probably had an indirect effect on points won.

 

So If that is the case how can someone say Nolan only gained up 3 points?

 

Probably hinting that other than goals he doesn't do much real midfield work, i.e, tackle, bring the ball out, close down players, create chances with clever passes to the forwards. That sort of thing.

[Mick]

How do you work that one out?  It's a bit simplistic to take away his goals where we won by a big margin and only count goals that mathematically won the game.  Against Sunderland he won a point in the away game and set us on our way in the home game.  Are you saying that if we take away his goals against Sunderland we would've won 2-1 in the home game?

 

Also at West Ham away, without Nolan's goal, Carroll's goal wouldn't have been the winner.  Against West Ham at home he got the third goal to kill the game off, before that it was 2-0, not biggest margin to come back from as we all know!

 

I don't think you can just minus his goals and say we wouldn't won 2-1 etc. without them most of his goals have changed games.

 

 

If you take away the goals he's scored we would be 3 points worse off.  If he hadn't scored some of his other goals then the results might not have finished the way that they did but it's impossible to try to come up with any sort of worth for his goals.  I didn't include him giving balls away that resulted in goals against either so it goes both ways.  I agree it’s a simplistic way to look at it but I think it reflects his worth to us.

 

People go on about how important it is for us to have him playing because he's a good captain, they forget that he's played during some of our worst displays and results, he's over-rated and in a lot of games he’s a handicap.

[Frazzle]

I might have worked out out wrong but take away Carroll's goals and we'd only be five points worse off.

[Mick]

I might have worked out out wrong but take away Carroll's goals and we'd only be five points worse off.

 

I make it 7, we haven't exactly been in free-fall since his last game thought.

[Guest toonlass]

How do you work that one out?  It's a bit simplistic to take away his goals where we won by a big margin and only count goals that mathematically won the game.  Against Sunderland he won a point in the away game and set us on our way in the home game.  Are you saying that if we take away his goals against Sunderland we would've won 2-1 in the home game?

 

Also at West Ham away, without Nolan's goal, Carroll's goal wouldn't have been the winner.  Against West Ham at home he got the third goal to kill the game off, before that it was 2-0, not biggest margin to come back from as we all know!

 

I don't think you can just minus his goals and say we wouldn't won 2-1 etc. without them most of his goals have changed games.

 

 

If you take away the goals he's scored we would be 3 points worse off.  If he hadn't scored some of his other goals then the results might not have finished the way that they did but it's impossible to try to come up with any sort of worth for his goals.  I didn't include him giving balls away that resulted in goals against either so it goes both ways.  I agree it’s a simplistic way to look at it but I think it reflects his worth to us.

 

People go on about how important it is for us to have him playing because he's a good captain, they forget that he's played during some of our worst displays and results, he's over-rated and in a lot of games he’s a handicap.

 

You are kidding aye? Kevin Nolan's ability as a captain cannot be ignored! It's mad that people value Jonas over Nolan just because he runs around a lot. He infuriates much more than he dazzles.

[Hughesy]

I love the way that the only way a player can have an influence on a goal being scored is by having the last touch.  Because that could never be at all misleading in assessing a player's worth...

[Mick]

You are kidding aye? Kevin Nolan's ability as a captain cannot be ignored! It's mad that people value Jonas over Nolan just because he runs around a lot. He infuriates much more than he dazzles.

 

What does Nolan do as captain?  What do we miss when he's not playing?

[Mick]

I love the way that the only way a player can have an influence on a goal being scored is by having the last touch.  Because that could never be at all misleading in assessing a player's worth...

 

Nolan rarely plays any part in goals that he doesn't score, the game often passes him by.

[Hughesy]

I was referring to people overlooking Jonas' contributions to goals.

[TRon]

I was referring to people overlooking Jonas' contributions to goals.

 

and you were spot on.

[Guest toonlass]

You are kidding aye? Kevin Nolan's ability as a captain cannot be ignored! It's mad that people value Jonas over Nolan just because he runs around a lot. He infuriates much more than he dazzles.

 

What does Nolan do as captain?  What do we miss when he's not playing?

 

Just look back to when Michael Owen was captain and you'll answer your own question.

[TRon]

You are kidding aye? Kevin Nolan's ability as a captain cannot be ignored! It's mad that people value Jonas over Nolan just because he runs around a lot. He infuriates much more than he dazzles.

 

What does Nolan do as captain?  What do we miss when he's not playing?

 

Just look back to when Michael Owen was captain and you'll answer your own question.

 

I agree with that like. Say what you like about Nolan as a player but he's obviously been a big part of the dressing room die hard spirit.

[Mick]

 

Just look back to when Michael Owen was captain and you'll answer your own question.

 

I'm not sure how looking back at Michael Owen answers it as he was just as ineffective in the end.

[Mick]

I agree with that like. Say what you like about Nolan as a player but he's obviously been a big part of the dressing room die hard spirit.

 

I wouldn't question what Nolan brings to the dressing room other than his advice to Carroll which went against his position as captain.

[Guest toonlass]

 

Just look back to when Michael Owen was captain and you'll answer your own question.

 

I'm not sure how looking back at Michael Owen answers it as he was just as ineffective in the end.

 

Would you say the morale in the team is the same as when Michael Owen was captain?

[Mick]

Would you say the morale in the team is the same as when Michael Owen was captain?

 

Morale seems to be much better and I will give some of the credit for that to Nolan, Smith seems to have also helped and I don't want to see him playing.  The most positive person on the pitch against Arsenal was Barton, I'd much rather see him as captain now that he seems to have pulled his game together and learned some self-control.