Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, The College Dropout said: You hear stories of that happening all the time. Players getting digged out in front of the group. These aren’t middle aged IT professionals. These are young men in a highly competitive environment most of which are accustomed to being shouted at by their managers. It’s literally the norm, i don’t see how that’s even remotely controversial. It’s how you keep standards high in elite sporting environments. They aren’t children. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobloblaw Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 8 minutes ago, Sempiternal said: ? whatever you think. Call to authority is the dumbest fallacy of all time. If people can’t speak with authority on stuff they actually know, then what’s the point of having any insight into anything at all then is there? I’m telling you that’s what happens, not that I know more about football than anyone else, disco has far more reaching knowledge than me. I’m just telling you that’s what happens. They’ll pull the footage and tell him it’s not acceptable, how that’s controversial I don’t know Anyone who has ever sat in a film room after a game knows this is what will happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: A fallacy when it suits I imagine. You were talking about shaming him, nowt to do with any insight you might have. That first sentence doesn’t mean anything tbf. Shaming him/telling him off it’s just semantics. He will be told it’s unacceptable, and he should be. He’s a pro, he can handle it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 You're just motte and bailey-ing now You said shaming him, now it's pulling him up on it/telling him off. If that's what you meant why not just say that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, bobloblaw said: Anyone who has ever sat in a film room after a game knows this is what will happen. Of course it is, Tonali is big boy, he can handle it. He needs to know that level of effort is completely unacceptable. Pep pretty much does it publicly, like he did with Phillips. That’s just how it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 5 minutes ago, Sempiternal said: That first sentence doesn’t mean anything tbf. Shaming him/telling him off it’s just semantics. He will be told it’s unacceptable, and he should be. He’s a pro, he can handle it It means a lot actually. You're just now apparently trying to change the goalposts instead of saying that you maybe could have worded it better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: You're just motte and bailey-ing now You said shaming him, now it's pulling him up on it/telling him off. If that's what you meant why not just say that. Did you just read first year philosophy yesterday or something? Fucking hell, pulling him up is shaming him on what he’s done? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Shouting at him at half time about it would be shaming him like. Or any comment in front of the other lads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Sempiternal said: Did you just read first year philosophy yesterday or something? Fucking hell, pulling him up is shaming him on what he’s done? Yes, I'm a professional, unlike you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobloblaw Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: You're just motte and bailey-ing now You said shaming him, now it's pulling him up on it/telling him off. If that's what you meant why not just say that. They'll watch the film as a whole team or in a position group, and his mistake will be called out in front of others. I guess if you want to call that shaming or not, that's a semantics argument. That's just how I took @Sempiternal comment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Vinny Green Balls said: It means a lot actually. You're just now apparently trying to change the goalposts instead of saying that you maybe could have worded it better. It doesn’t really, at all. It’s pure pendency. Eddie will have a stern word with him. If he feels ashamed of not putting in the effort, maybe that’s just a bonus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, bobloblaw said: They'll watch the film as a whole team or in a position group, and his mistake will be called out in front of others. I guess if you want to call that shaming or not, that's a semantics argument. That's just how I took @Sempiternal comment. It just appeared to be more of a reactionary comment at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, Sempiternal said: It doesn’t really, at all. It’s pure pendency. Eddie will have a stern word with him. If he feels ashamed of not putting in the effort, maybe that’s just a bonus I would have chosen pedantry instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 minute ago, bobloblaw said: They'll watch the film as a whole team or in a position group, and his mistake will be called out in front of others. I guess if you want to call that shaming or not, that's a semantics argument. That's just how I took @Sempiternal comment. Exactly. Which is totally fine, I’d call it shaming but other people maybe not. Accountability, whatever you want to call it, the end result is the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 (edited) And then an unbelievably arrogant one about working in the game. Who fucking cares, there are some absolute knackers working in the game. Don't be one yourself. Edited September 3, 2023 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, Vinny Green Balls said: I would have chosen pedantry instead. Yeah that’s a bad one, not gonna lie. Pendency definitely isn’t the word I was looking for Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, Sempiternal said: Yeah that’s a bad one, not gonna lie. Pendency definitely isn’t the word I was looking for no worries. I was trying to be pedantic and lighten the mood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, Kid Icarus said: And then an unbelievably arrogant one about working in the game. Who fucking cares, there are some absolute knackers working in the game. Absolutely malding. Plus ad hominem. Maybe you’ve had a few beers idk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Tonali should do better. Howe will have a word. In front of the team or solo. I’m well aware of that. He could be angry when he delivers that to Sandro. No Im not inferring Sandro is some middle minded child who needs to be held but his closing down was hardly the root of the goal and nor does any adult need to be SHAMED. It’s about teaching, it’s about tailoring the fucking message man. Jesus I can’t even believe we’re having this convo. He’ll learn from today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Kanji said: Tonali should do better. Howe will have a word. In front of the team or solo. I’m well aware of that. He could be angry when he delivers that to Sandro. No Im not inferring Sandro is some middle minded child who needs to be held but his closing down was hardly the root of the goal and nor does any adult need to be SHAMED. It’s about teaching, it’s about tailoring the fucking message man. Jesus I can’t even believe we’re having this convo. He’ll learn from today. I don’t think football managers always rely on teaching and tailoring the message tbf. Sometimes it is just about a cold hard bollocking - a calling out or a shaming. It isn’t the same working environment as what the rest of us face on a daily basis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 I disagree about the goal, I thought he had a big part in it. Some players react well to harsh treatment. Mou does it all the time and some players properly love him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Sempiternal said: Absolutely malding. Plus ad hominem. Maybe you’ve had a few beers idk Nah, just thought your whole I work in football schtick was really self important. Especially as it had nothing to do with what was being said. Edited September 3, 2023 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Sempiternal said: I disagree about the goal, I thought he had a big part in it. Some players react well to harsh treatment. Mou does it all the time and some players properly love him. Klopp does it all the time too. I mean it’s fairly standard. Unless the manager thinks you’re the type to crumble after criticism. You make a mistake that costs a goal - especially a mistake caused by a lack of effort and application. The manager will dig you out at the earliest convenience and you would deserve it. It was spineless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: I don’t think football managers always rely on teaching and tailoring the message tbf. Sometimes it is just about a cold hard bollocking - a calling out or a shaming. It isn’t the same working environment as what the rest of us face on a daily basis. Pretty much yeah, I’m not saying he should be ostracized but sometimes you have to make an example to set standards. I can’t think of a single team sport where that doesn’t happen. Tuchel did it in Bayern training not even long ago. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12307419/amp/Thomas-Tuchel-singles-THREE-Bayern-Munich-stars-criticism-fail-hit-high-standards-pre-season-training.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Was it spineless or a brain fart? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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