Optimistic Nut Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Again though, if Inter thought Martins was going to improve a great deal, why would they sell him at 21? because they had better options in Zlatan, Adriano and Crespo.. meaning that Martins wouldn't get enough games. Mancini is hardly the benchmark of a successful manager.. not sure why you insist on that argument, it's as daft as the Ricketts one.. Adriano has been sh*t for the last two years, Crespo is in his 30s and only on loan...surely if Martins was that good he'd have kept him. Mancini may not be a great manager (although he's hardly sh*t is he!), but he was a great striker so you'd have thought that if he felt there was something in Martins to come, he'd have tried getting that out of him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 My problem with Martins is that when he has a good game, he has a GOOD game, and when he has a bad game, we all know about it. If he can improve on his general all round play, then we've got ourselves a really good player but atm, all he's done is scored some goals, in games when he hasn't scored, he's been a waste of a player on the pitch. Same can be said for Owen a lot of the time. When he isn't scoring he often does f*** all aswell. Could be true, but what I've seen of Owen, even just these past few games for England, when he isn't scoring, he still makes a few good passes and movements - it may not be enough for a good Premiership forward but he is still a better all round player than Martins (probably due to age) True Owen's movement is generally beneficial to the team. Not sure you could say the same about Martins. I think Martins workrate is good though. Just his movement isn't very intelligent. That has to improve. He is only young though and last season was his first in a new country in a poor side with a s*** manager. wonder owens movement be so good if he played up front on his own ? Martins movement wasn't good whether he played upfront on his own or with a partner. It's not a particularly fair comparison though as Owen's movement is top class. If Owen played upfront on his own his movement would still be good imo. The role wouldn't suit him either though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 This will be the season to judge Martins, hopefully he will be playing with a real striker and real attacking support a real manager and real tactics! Its not as if he had a shocking season and its not as if he would be the first player to ever improve in the premiership. It wasn't that long ago Drogba was getting slated, even wonderboy Ronaldo was getting stick from his own fans for fannying about with the ball too much and having little end product! A lot of ManU fans wanted to sell Vidic and Evra after their first 45mins because they clearly weren't cut out for English football, apparently! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 I've already made that point Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 I've already made that point Jon Yeah, I thought I put it across better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 I've already made that point Jon Yeah, I thought I put it across better You thought wrong Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 We'll see. I'm not convinced. I think Viduka might have a frustrating time of it winning header after header only for Martins to be nowhere near where he should be, or offside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 We'll see. I'm not convinced. I think Viduka might have a frustrating time of it winning header after header only for Martins to be nowhere near where he should be, or offside. I'd imagine Viduka would be pretty frustrated anyway if we're pinging long balls for him to win headers. Not that type of player in any way, shape or form. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 You know what I mean though. Unless Martins' movement and footballing brain improves ten-fold pretty sharp, then Viduka's excellent link-up play might end up being put to waste. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Martins put in a transfer request which is why he left Inter, he felt he would struggle to get a game with Crespo and Ibrahimovic moving to the club. The stick Martins gets on here is way over the top IMO, some of it's deserved but when he starts getting compared to the likes of Micheal Ricketts then I don't even take that point of view seriously, having been a regular on here throughout the season it's been quite noticeable the opinions swinging back and forth on the lad from day one until today. If we're going to write him off because he didn't perform constantly throughout last season then we might as well cancel the contracts of the whole squad and start again from scratch, it also says a lot about people's opinions of Allardyce as a coach if they don't think he can develop his movement and first touch here, two simple things that a good skills coach could sort out. If Martins does leave this summer then it will be to a bigger and more successful club than us, that in itself says alot to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Martins put in a transfer request which is why he left Inter, he felt he would struggle to get a game with Crespo and Ibrahimovic moving to the club. The stick Martins gets on here is way over the top IMO, some of it's deserved but when he starts getting compared to the likes of Micheal Ricketts then I don't even take that point of view seriously, having been a regular on here throughout the season it's been quite noticeable the opinions swinging back and forth on the lad from day one until today. If we're going to write him off because he didn't perform constantly throughout last season then we might as well cancel the contracts of the whole squad and start again from scratch, it also says a lot about people's opinions of Allardyce as a coach if they don't think he can develop his movement and first touch here, two simple things that a good skills coach could sort out. If Martins does leave this summer then it will be to a bigger and more successful club than us, that in itself says alot to me. Thats what makes me laugh, people say he isn't good enough for us but in the same breath talk about selling him to Valencia for £15m! I do sometimes wonder if i may have stumbled on to a Barcelona forum or something! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 That's only because Valencia have been linked with him for £15m though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodson Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 If we get a good replacement and Owen stays put I could go for it. But it has to be a really good replacemnet. Maybe SA can get Adriano back in shape, would be amazing... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Before the takeover a few weeks ago I'd have sold him for a modest profit to generate funds for Allardyce to play with. No question. Now, that it's looking likely that he'll have quite a bit of money to spend, (fingers crossed) I think it's worth the gamble of keeping him to see if he improves with better coaching and having a bit of support up front. Plus if he can keep all 4 strikers fit he can rotate them and let them rest when they need it, thus keeping them fresh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 That's only because Valencia have been linked with him for £15m though. Why would they want him though? With them being a bigger, more successful club than us with a great coaching set up and a past record of developing young players, you would have thought one of their scouts would have told them he's no better than that Ricketts lad they had scouted at Bolton a few years back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 That's only because Valencia have been linked with him for £15m though. Why would they want him though? With them being a bigger, more successful club than us with a great coaching set up and a past record of developing young players, you would have thought one of their scouts would have told them he's no better than that Ricketts lad they had scouted at Bolton a few years back. Valencia have also been linked with Darren Bent for a similar fee though...they also signed Hugo Viana. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveItIfWeBeatU Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 they also signed Hugo Viana. For peanuts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 What does it matter what the price was? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Have they tried Viana as a defensive midfielder though? That's his natural position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 What does it matter what the price was? Well its a bit different spending £1.2m (or was it £1.8m) on a squad player than it is £15m in a striker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stephen927 Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 I'd keep him, last season he did a lot better than I thought he would with a lot of pressure on his shoulders to provide goals, coupled with the fact that it was his first season in a foreign country. With the proper system around him, and not 4-5-1 with him chasing hopeless balls forward, I think he can have a very good season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 When they're probably going to get £30m for David Villa or whatever though, I wouldn't say it's that big a fee for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 That's only because Valencia have been linked with him for £15m though. Why would they want him though? With them being a bigger, more successful club than us with a great coaching set up and a past record of developing young players, you would have thought one of their scouts would have told them he's no better than that Ricketts lad they had scouted at Bolton a few years back. Valencia have also been linked with Darren Bent for a similar fee though...they also signed Hugo Viana. Is that the same Viana they had on loan and signed off us for under £2 million? The same player who's became a regular from the bench in a top 4 La Liga team? They spotted a good young talent going cheap because they knew the club he was at didn't have the first idea how to get the best out of the player, Martins won't be going there cheap, but you can bet the part about us not having a clue how to develop him still stands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 When they're probably going to get £30m for David Villa or whatever though, I wouldn't say it's that big a fee for them. Its a big risk though, replacing Villa with Martins. They must see something in him. In regards to your Bent comment earlier, he is also good enough for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 We'll see. Either way, in a year one of us will look back at this thread and cringe...I just hope you're good at eating humble pie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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