When was the last time NUFC really stuck with & developed a player?

[The College Dropout]

Craig Bellamy

 

A much better footballer when he left compared to when he signed. Movement, composure and build-up play where much better and he went on to play the best football of his career at Blackburn. Not to mention we sorted out his knees.

 

He improved through sheer hardwork and determination.

 

I'm always banging on about Taylor but that's just because I think he's tremoundsley over-rated by some here (captain ffs), i think hes a promising player who needs to develop.

 

Taylor as captain is not exactly outlandish not when we aren't exactly full to the top with captain material.

 

We could atleast start with players that have proved themselves consistently at Premiership level. He hasn't done anything to say that he's much better than Bramble.

 

Now you're being daft, he has made a few mistakes and had a few wobbly games true, but he's only 21 so that's to be expected. Overall though he's looked a decent prospect given he's been playing in a Newcastle United back-four which would probably give even the likes of Jon Terry sleepless nights. In my opinion of course.

 

True but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is not a proven EPL player. I agree he looks a prospect but he's nowhere near the finished article & could well go the Bramble route. Captain my arse, he needs to show that he can cut the mustard at this level.

 

Taylor has held the defence together this season. Bramble is far more accident prone and when both are at their best Taylor is still the better player. If he can play like he is with crap around him imagine what he could be like with an established back 4

 

Held the defence together? Taylor better than Bramble at his best?

 

Your talking bollocks mate.

[mozy]

Craig Bellamy

 

A much better footballer when he left compared to when he signed. Movement, composure and build-up play where much better and he went on to play the best football of his career at Blackburn. Not to mention we sorted out his knees.

 

He improved through sheer hardwork and determination.

 

I'm always banging on about Taylor but that's just because I think he's tremoundsley over-rated by some here (captain ffs), i think hes a promising player who needs to develop.

 

Taylor as captain is not exactly outlandish not when we aren't exactly full to the top with captain material.

 

We could atleast start with players that have proved themselves consistently at Premiership level. He hasn't done anything to say that he's much better than Bramble.

 

Now you're being daft, he has made a few mistakes and had a few wobbly games true, but he's only 21 so that's to be expected. Overall though he's looked a decent prospect given he's been playing in a Newcastle United back-four which would probably give even the likes of Jon Terry sleepless nights. In my opinion of course.

 

True but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is not a proven EPL player. I agree he looks a prospect but he's nowhere near the finished article & could well go the Bramble route. Captain my arse, he needs to show that he can cut the mustard at this level.

 

He does, I agree. However I think such a responsibility could really be good for his development myself. As far as I can see there are no outstanding candidates and I personally don't think experience is an issue regarding the captaincy, so am open minded to the suggestion. Why not.

 

Because he may not prove himself to be deserving of a first XI place. He'll probably think he's a big time Charlie if he's given it. Once he proves that he is a good defender then we can talk about captaincy. Why not give it to the Zog? He's shown as much promise as Taylor, why hasn't he been mentioned? Is it home grown Geordie lad bias?

 

how can you not rate him as an out and out defender. some aspects of his game are lacking and he can look a little shaky at times but he as a good defender.

[The College Dropout]

Craig Bellamy

 

A much better footballer when he left compared to when he signed. Movement, composure and build-up play where much better and he went on to play the best football of his career at Blackburn. Not to mention we sorted out his knees.

 

He improved through sheer hardwork and determination.

 

I'm always banging on about Taylor but that's just because I think he's tremoundsley over-rated by some here (captain ffs), i think hes a promising player who needs to develop.

 

Taylor as captain is not exactly outlandish not when we aren't exactly full to the top with captain material.

 

We could atleast start with players that have proved themselves consistently at Premiership level. He hasn't done anything to say that he's much better than Bramble.

 

Now you're being daft, he has made a few mistakes and had a few wobbly games true, but he's only 21 so that's to be expected. Overall though he's looked a decent prospect given he's been playing in a Newcastle United back-four which would probably give even the likes of Jon Terry sleepless nights. In my opinion of course.

 

True but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is not a proven EPL player. I agree he looks a prospect but he's nowhere near the finished article & could well go the Bramble route. Captain my arse, he needs to show that he can cut the mustard at this level.

 

He does, I agree. However I think such a responsibility could really be good for his development myself. As far as I can see there are no outstanding candidates and I personally don't think experience is an issue regarding the captaincy, so am open minded to the suggestion. Why not.

 

Because he may not prove himself to be deserving of a first XI place. He'll probably think he's a big time Charlie if he's given it. Once he proves that he is a good defender then we can talk about captaincy. Why not give it to the Zog? He's shown as much promise as Taylor, why hasn't he been mentioned? Is it home grown Geordie lad bias?

 

Give it to Le Strop? No thanks.

 

I wasn't being serious. Just pointing out the ludacrisy of calling for young Bruce Willis to become captain.

[mozy]

Craig Bellamy

 

A much better footballer when he left compared to when he signed. Movement, composure and build-up play where much better and he went on to play the best football of his career at Blackburn. Not to mention we sorted out his knees.

 

He improved through sheer hardwork and determination.

 

I'm always banging on about Taylor but that's just because I think he's tremoundsley over-rated by some here (captain ffs), i think hes a promising player who needs to develop.

 

Taylor as captain is not exactly outlandish not when we aren't exactly full to the top with captain material.

 

We could atleast start with players that have proved themselves consistently at Premiership level. He hasn't done anything to say that he's much better than Bramble.

 

Now you're being daft, he has made a few mistakes and had a few wobbly games true, but he's only 21 so that's to be expected. Overall though he's looked a decent prospect given he's been playing in a Newcastle United back-four which would probably give even the likes of Jon Terry sleepless nights. In my opinion of course.

 

True but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is not a proven EPL player. I agree he looks a prospect but he's nowhere near the finished article & could well go the Bramble route. Captain my arse, he needs to show that he can cut the mustard at this level.

 

Taylor has held the defence together this season. Bramble is far more accident prone and when both are at their best Taylor is still the better player. If he can play like he is with crap around him imagine what he could be like with an established back 4

 

Held the defence together? Taylor better than Bramble at his best?

 

Your talking bollocks mate.

 

ok, titus at his best is maybe taking it a bit too far but on an average scale taylor is far more reliable and his mistakes are kept down to a minimum

[Guest Knightrider]

Craig Bellamy

 

A much better footballer when he left compared to when he signed. Movement, composure and build-up play where much better and he went on to play the best football of his career at Blackburn. Not to mention we sorted out his knees.

 

He improved through sheer hardwork and determination.

 

I'm always banging on about Taylor but that's just because I think he's tremoundsley over-rated by some here (captain ffs), i think hes a promising player who needs to develop.

 

Taylor as captain is not exactly outlandish not when we aren't exactly full to the top with captain material.

 

We could atleast start with players that have proved themselves consistently at Premiership level. He hasn't done anything to say that he's much better than Bramble.

 

Now you're being daft, he has made a few mistakes and had a few wobbly games true, but he's only 21 so that's to be expected. Overall though he's looked a decent prospect given he's been playing in a Newcastle United back-four which would probably give even the likes of Jon Terry sleepless nights. In my opinion of course.

 

True but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is not a proven EPL player. I agree he looks a prospect but he's nowhere near the finished article & could well go the Bramble route. Captain my arse, he needs to show that he can cut the mustard at this level.

 

He does, I agree. However I think such a responsibility could really be good for his development myself. As far as I can see there are no outstanding candidates and I personally don't think experience is an issue regarding the captaincy, so am open minded to the suggestion. Why not.

 

Because he may not prove himself to be deserving of a first XI place. He'll probably think he's a big time Charlie if he's given it. Once he proves that he is a good defender then we can talk about captaincy. Why not give it to the Zog? He's shown as much promise as Taylor, why hasn't he been mentioned? Is it home grown Geordie lad bias?

 

Or the added responsibility and prestige of captaining your hometown club could inject a massive vote of confidence into the player who then takes it upon himself to pay his manager's faith in him back ten fold and galvanize him to get his priorities right? Could be the making of him or it could just be a waste of a good armband...

 

I'd be willing to take the small risk.

[Leazes1986]

Bramble at his best? He has a couple of good games a season. Bramble doesn't have a best, he's awful. Taylor will go on to be an England regular in a few years imo. Bramble will probably be playing in the Championship in 2008/09. Thats where he belongs.

[The College Dropout]

Craig Bellamy

 

A much better footballer when he left compared to when he signed. Movement, composure and build-up play where much better and he went on to play the best football of his career at Blackburn. Not to mention we sorted out his knees.

 

He improved through sheer hardwork and determination.

 

I'm always banging on about Taylor but that's just because I think he's tremoundsley over-rated by some here (captain ffs), i think hes a promising player who needs to develop.

 

Taylor as captain is not exactly outlandish not when we aren't exactly full to the top with captain material.

 

We could atleast start with players that have proved themselves consistently at Premiership level. He hasn't done anything to say that he's much better than Bramble.

 

Now you're being daft, he has made a few mistakes and had a few wobbly games true, but he's only 21 so that's to be expected. Overall though he's looked a decent prospect given he's been playing in a Newcastle United back-four which would probably give even the likes of Jon Terry sleepless nights. In my opinion of course.

 

True but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is not a proven EPL player. I agree he looks a prospect but he's nowhere near the finished article & could well go the Bramble route. Captain my arse, he needs to show that he can cut the mustard at this level.

 

He does, I agree. However I think such a responsibility could really be good for his development myself. As far as I can see there are no outstanding candidates and I personally don't think experience is an issue regarding the captaincy, so am open minded to the suggestion. Why not.

 

Because he may not prove himself to be deserving of a first XI place. He'll probably think he's a big time Charlie if he's given it. Once he proves that he is a good defender then we can talk about captaincy. Why not give it to the Zog? He's shown as much promise as Taylor, why hasn't he been mentioned? Is it home grown Geordie lad bias?

 

how can you not rate him as an out and out defender. some aspects of his game are lacking and he can look a little shaky at times but he as a good defender.

 

I've said that I think he's a prospect but he hasn't shown himself to be a good defender on anywhere near a consistent basis. Why would you make an unproven young defender captain?

[The College Dropout]

Craig Bellamy

 

A much better footballer when he left compared to when he signed. Movement, composure and build-up play where much better and he went on to play the best football of his career at Blackburn. Not to mention we sorted out his knees.

 

He improved through sheer hardwork and determination.

 

I'm always banging on about Taylor but that's just because I think he's tremoundsley over-rated by some here (captain ffs), i think hes a promising player who needs to develop.

 

Taylor as captain is not exactly outlandish not when we aren't exactly full to the top with captain material.

 

We could atleast start with players that have proved themselves consistently at Premiership level. He hasn't done anything to say that he's much better than Bramble.

 

Now you're being daft, he has made a few mistakes and had a few wobbly games true, but he's only 21 so that's to be expected. Overall though he's looked a decent prospect given he's been playing in a Newcastle United back-four which would probably give even the likes of Jon Terry sleepless nights. In my opinion of course.

 

True but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is not a proven EPL player. I agree he looks a prospect but he's nowhere near the finished article & could well go the Bramble route. Captain my arse, he needs to show that he can cut the mustard at this level.

 

He does, I agree. However I think such a responsibility could really be good for his development myself. As far as I can see there are no outstanding candidates and I personally don't think experience is an issue regarding the captaincy, so am open minded to the suggestion. Why not.

 

Because he may not prove himself to be deserving of a first XI place. He'll probably think he's a big time Charlie if he's given it. Once he proves that he is a good defender then we can talk about captaincy. Why not give it to the Zog? He's shown as much promise as Taylor, why hasn't he been mentioned? Is it home grown Geordie lad bias?

 

Or the added responsibility and prestige of captaining your hometown club could inject a massive vote of confidence into the player who then takes it upon himself to pay his manager's faith in him back ten fold and galvanize him to get his priorities right? Could be the making of him or it could just be a waste of a good armband...

 

I'd be willing to take the small risk.

 

Small risk of becoming the next JJ or Parker? Every mistake will be highlighted and scrutinized as captain. I wouldn't be surprised if he was dropped at some point in the season... captains should be the first name on the sheet ro atleast the automatic starter. Taylor is not this. He should concentrate on fighting to be in the first team.

[mozy]

Craig Bellamy

 

A much better footballer when he left compared to when he signed. Movement, composure and build-up play where much better and he went on to play the best football of his career at Blackburn. Not to mention we sorted out his knees.

 

He improved through sheer hardwork and determination.

 

I'm always banging on about Taylor but that's just because I think he's tremoundsley over-rated by some here (captain ffs), i think hes a promising player who needs to develop.

 

Taylor as captain is not exactly outlandish not when we aren't exactly full to the top with captain material.

 

We could atleast start with players that have proved themselves consistently at Premiership level. He hasn't done anything to say that he's much better than Bramble.

 

Now you're being daft, he has made a few mistakes and had a few wobbly games true, but he's only 21 so that's to be expected. Overall though he's looked a decent prospect given he's been playing in a Newcastle United back-four which would probably give even the likes of Jon Terry sleepless nights. In my opinion of course.

 

True but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is not a proven EPL player. I agree he looks a prospect but he's nowhere near the finished article & could well go the Bramble route. Captain my arse, he needs to show that he can cut the mustard at this level.

 

He does, I agree. However I think such a responsibility could really be good for his development myself. As far as I can see there are no outstanding candidates and I personally don't think experience is an issue regarding the captaincy, so am open minded to the suggestion. Why not.

 

Because he may not prove himself to be deserving of a first XI place. He'll probably think he's a big time Charlie if he's given it. Once he proves that he is a good defender then we can talk about captaincy. Why not give it to the Zog? He's shown as much promise as Taylor, why hasn't he been mentioned? Is it home grown Geordie lad bias?

 

how can you not rate him as an out and out defender. some aspects of his game are lacking and he can look a little shaky at times but he as a good defender.

 

I've said that I think he's a prospect but he hasn't shown himself to be a good defender on anywhere near a consistent basis. Why would you make an unproven young defender captain?

 

i've never said he should be captain, not yet anyway. hes 21 and has been playing first team football for 3 seasons. i think that makes him proven at least, and imo a proven good defender

[The College Dropout]

Taylor will go on to be an England regular in a few years

 

This is some of the over-rating bollocks I was talking about.

 

Talk about huge expectations.

[The College Dropout]

Craig Bellamy

 

A much better footballer when he left compared to when he signed. Movement, composure and build-up play where much better and he went on to play the best football of his career at Blackburn. Not to mention we sorted out his knees.

 

He improved through sheer hardwork and determination.

 

I'm always banging on about Taylor but that's just because I think he's tremoundsley over-rated by some here (captain ffs), i think hes a promising player who needs to develop.

 

Taylor as captain is not exactly outlandish not when we aren't exactly full to the top with captain material.

 

We could atleast start with players that have proved themselves consistently at Premiership level. He hasn't done anything to say that he's much better than Bramble.

 

Now you're being daft, he has made a few mistakes and had a few wobbly games true, but he's only 21 so that's to be expected. Overall though he's looked a decent prospect given he's been playing in a Newcastle United back-four which would probably give even the likes of Jon Terry sleepless nights. In my opinion of course.

 

True but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is not a proven EPL player. I agree he looks a prospect but he's nowhere near the finished article & could well go the Bramble route. Captain my arse, he needs to show that he can cut the mustard at this level.

 

He does, I agree. However I think such a responsibility could really be good for his development myself. As far as I can see there are no outstanding candidates and I personally don't think experience is an issue regarding the captaincy, so am open minded to the suggestion. Why not.

 

Because he may not prove himself to be deserving of a first XI place. He'll probably think he's a big time Charlie if he's given it. Once he proves that he is a good defender then we can talk about captaincy. Why not give it to the Zog? He's shown as much promise as Taylor, why hasn't he been mentioned? Is it home grown Geordie lad bias?

 

how can you not rate him as an out and out defender. some aspects of his game are lacking and he can look a little shaky at times but he as a good defender.

 

I've said that I think he's a prospect but he hasn't shown himself to be a good defender on anywhere near a consistent basis. Why would you make an unproven young defender captain?

 

i've never said he should be captain, not yet anyway. hes 21 and has been playing first team football for 3 seasons. i think that makes him proven at least, and imo a proven good defender

 

Aye normally it would but he's been in a much maligned defence for most of it. Also he hasn't been a regular for 3 years. Due to injuries and shitty signings he's been in and out of the starting XI.

[Leazes1986]

Taylor will go on to be an England regular in a few years

 

This is some of the over-rating bollocks I was talking about.

 

Talk about huge expectations.

 

Which is why i said "in a few years". I'm not saying he is an international defender now. I'm saying he has the potential to be one and i think he will reach his potential now that he is hopefully gonna be playing alongside some quality defenders every week.

[mozy]

Craig Bellamy

 

A much better footballer when he left compared to when he signed. Movement, composure and build-up play where much better and he went on to play the best football of his career at Blackburn. Not to mention we sorted out his knees.

 

He improved through sheer hardwork and determination.

 

I'm always banging on about Taylor but that's just because I think he's tremoundsley over-rated by some here (captain ffs), i think hes a promising player who needs to develop.

 

Taylor as captain is not exactly outlandish not when we aren't exactly full to the top with captain material.

 

We could atleast start with players that have proved themselves consistently at Premiership level. He hasn't done anything to say that he's much better than Bramble.

 

Now you're being daft, he has made a few mistakes and had a few wobbly games true, but he's only 21 so that's to be expected. Overall though he's looked a decent prospect given he's been playing in a Newcastle United back-four which would probably give even the likes of Jon Terry sleepless nights. In my opinion of course.

 

True but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is not a proven EPL player. I agree he looks a prospect but he's nowhere near the finished article & could well go the Bramble route. Captain my arse, he needs to show that he can cut the mustard at this level.

 

He does, I agree. However I think such a responsibility could really be good for his development myself. As far as I can see there are no outstanding candidates and I personally don't think experience is an issue regarding the captaincy, so am open minded to the suggestion. Why not.

 

Because he may not prove himself to be deserving of a first XI place. He'll probably think he's a big time Charlie if he's given it. Once he proves that he is a good defender then we can talk about captaincy. Why not give it to the Zog? He's shown as much promise as Taylor, why hasn't he been mentioned? Is it home grown Geordie lad bias?

 

how can you not rate him as an out and out defender. some aspects of his game are lacking and he can look a little shaky at times but he as a good defender.

 

I've said that I think he's a prospect but he hasn't shown himself to be a good defender on anywhere near a consistent basis. Why would you make an unproven young defender captain?

 

i've never said he should be captain, not yet anyway. hes 21 and has been playing first team football for 3 seasons. i think that makes him proven at least, and imo a proven good defender

 

Aye normally it would but he's been in a much maligned defence for most of it. Also he hasn't been a regular for 3 years. Due to injuries and shitty signings he's been in and out of the starting XI.

 

i didnt say hes been a regualr i just said hes been playing for 3 seasons. the defence has always been critisiced but taylor has emerged as a rock. next season he will be with a decent back 4 ((right back) Ben Haim Taylor Baines (hopefully)) and that will test him. If the defence can turn around into one that gets praised then taylor will start getting the credit he deserves from all angles.

[The College Dropout]

Taylor will go on to be an England regular in a few years

 

This is some of the over-rating bollocks I was talking about.

 

Talk about huge expectations.

 

Which is why i said "in a few years". I'm not saying he is an international defender now. I'm saying he has the potential to be one and i think he will reach his potential now that he is hopefully gonna be playing alongside some quality defenders every week.

 

Fair enough.

[The College Dropout]

A rock. 

[mozy]

A rock. 

 

its all about different peoples oppinions of him but most rate him as a player and think he has the potential to do well. obviously you arent convinced yet

[Guest Knightrider]

Craig Bellamy

 

A much better footballer when he left compared to when he signed. Movement, composure and build-up play where much better and he went on to play the best football of his career at Blackburn. Not to mention we sorted out his knees.

 

He improved through sheer hardwork and determination.

 

I'm always banging on about Taylor but that's just because I think he's tremoundsley over-rated by some here (captain ffs), i think hes a promising player who needs to develop.

 

Taylor as captain is not exactly outlandish not when we aren't exactly full to the top with captain material.

 

We could atleast start with players that have proved themselves consistently at Premiership level. He hasn't done anything to say that he's much better than Bramble.

 

Now you're being daft, he has made a few mistakes and had a few wobbly games true, but he's only 21 so that's to be expected. Overall though he's looked a decent prospect given he's been playing in a Newcastle United back-four which would probably give even the likes of Jon Terry sleepless nights. In my opinion of course.

 

True but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is not a proven EPL player. I agree he looks a prospect but he's nowhere near the finished article & could well go the Bramble route. Captain my arse, he needs to show that he can cut the mustard at this level.

 

He does, I agree. However I think such a responsibility could really be good for his development myself. As far as I can see there are no outstanding candidates and I personally don't think experience is an issue regarding the captaincy, so am open minded to the suggestion. Why not.

 

Because he may not prove himself to be deserving of a first XI place. He'll probably think he's a big time Charlie if he's given it. Once he proves that he is a good defender then we can talk about captaincy. Why not give it to the Zog? He's shown as much promise as Taylor, why hasn't he been mentioned? Is it home grown Geordie lad bias?

 

Or the added responsibility and prestige of captaining your hometown club could inject a massive vote of confidence into the player who then takes it upon himself to pay his manager's faith in him back ten fold and galvanize him to get his priorities right? Could be the making of him or it could just be a waste of a good armband...

 

I'd be willing to take the small risk.

 

Small risk of becoming the next JJ or Parker? Every mistake will be highlighted and scrutinized as captain. I wouldn't be surprised if he was dropped at some point in the season... captains should be the first name on the sheet ro atleast the automatic starter. Taylor is not this. He should concentrate on fighting to be in the first team.

 

Or he could be to us what John Terry is to Chelsea, or Gerrard to Liverpool, a man who the fans and manager look to to inspire the others, to fight for the cause when the chips are down.

 

There comes a point when someone at the club will have to decide what to do with Taylor, this promising young player. Do we buy in experienced defenders at the cost of millions and tell him to fight for his place or leave or do we weigh up his talent and stick him in there and develop him, to allow his talent to leave a mark on the club. I think his talent is too precious myself to let him fight it out for his place in the team. Remember talent needs a helping hand and a manager's job isn't just about picking the best and most experienced players, or the ones who cost all the money, but is also about developing a player.

 

Given our atrocious record at developing talent, especially our own, the club owes it to itself and its future to give youth a chance, talented yough. I think we can afford to develop at least one player here at the expense of perhaps short-term experience and know-how as Taylor has the talent and makings of a top centre-back. We have to think about the future too you know.

 

It is all good and well allowing Taylor to fight for a place in the team like any other player but he needs a leg up, he needs to play games week in week out at a high level at this age now and in his proper position so he and the coaching staff can iron out those flaws and weaknesses, to work on him, to develop and mould him into a top player who will save us a lot of money and act as a spur to the struggling academy and also provide fans with a player who they can identify with.

 

Man Utd could have splashed out millions on a proven right-winger but Fergie decided to give Beckham his place in the team and to develop him, because his talent warranted it. He hasn't done that with Fletcher or O'Shea, he's used them as bit part players because although decent, they don't have that X factor if you like. Does Taylor? I believe so, although at a lower end of the scale.

 

Had Beckham had to fight for his place with an experienced proven right winger, he'd have struggled to make an impact at Man Utd and wouldn't have become the player he has.

 

We owe it to ourselves to start developing our players, especially our own who actually do have some talent.

 

If it takes 2 seasons of wobbly performances from Taylor to iron out all the creases so he can give us 6 great years of optimum performances, I'd take that.

 

Or we could spend millions on some unknown foreign defender and keep chopping and changing every other season looking for our own John Terry or Jamie Carragher, two players who ironically are home grown, whose clubs and managers stuck with them and developed them.

 

Coincidence?

[The College Dropout]

John Terry had to fight the great Marcel Desailly for his place in the first team. I'm sure he learnt alot from experienced defenders such as Desailly and Gallas. The year Abramovich took over he was still fighting for his place. He wasn't stuck with through thick or thin as you are suggesting

 

Carragher played at fullback for a long time before he came the CB we all know. He's what 29? How long has he been the first choice centreback at Liverpool? 4 or so years ago it was Henzhoz and Hyppia.

 

Neither of these players where first team regulars at 21.

[Guest Knightrider]

John Terry had to fight the great Marcel Desailly for his place in the first team. I'm sure he learnt alot from experienced defenders such as Desailly and Gallas. The year Abramovich took over he was still fighting for his place. He wasn't stuck with through thick or thin as you are suggesting

 

Carragher played at fullback for a long time before he came the CB we all know. He's what 29? How long has he been the first choice centreback at Liverpool? 4 or so years ago it was Henzhoz and Hyppia.

 

Neither of these players where first team regulars at 21.

 

Terry according to Ranieri was always going to take over from Dessailly, they weren't going to go out and spend big on an experienced CB. He always intended to mould Terry into the new Dessailly if you like.

 

Point taken on Carragher.

 

What are your thoughts on the whole development thing out of interest as touched on in my post? Should we play Taylor and try and develop him?

[Guest philinho]

Andrew Cole?

[Leazes1986]

Andrew Cole?

 

He was only here for 2 years.

[The College Dropout]

John Terry had to fight the great Marcel Desailly for his place in the first team. I'm sure he learnt alot from experienced defenders such as Desailly and Gallas. The year Abramovich took over he was still fighting for his place. He wasn't stuck with through thick or thin as you are suggesting

 

Carragher played at fullback for a long time before he came the CB we all know. He's what 29? How long has he been the first choice centreback at Liverpool? 4 or so years ago it was Henzhoz and Hyppia.

 

Neither of these players where first team regulars at 21.

 

Terry according to Ranieri was always going to take over from Dessailly, they weren't going to go out and spend big on an experienced CB. He always intended to mould Terry into the new Dessailly if you like.

 

Point taken on Carragher.

 

What are your thoughts on the whole development thing out of interest as touched on in my post? Should we play Taylor and try and develop him?

 

I think for CB they should be eased in. It would've been good to have Bem Haim and Sol Campbell to take the pressure off of Taylor for a year or so.

 

I reckon we should stick with Oba and maybe Zog as well.

[Ashley17]

Other than Given I would say Aaron Hughes has got to be a contender. Got into the team in 97-98 from the Academy, was a regular up until 2004/2005 when he stopped "progressing" and went backwards. Then we got rid.

[NE5]

And I'm not talking about someone coming through the youth ranks. When did we last buy an unfinished article, stuck with that player and that player developed into a fine player for us? I'm asking because I think this is a very important aspect of the club that hasn't always been in effect. Just look at the number of players we have bought, often for good money, who weren't retained after a poor start, or whose game never developed at all. There have been too many. And this has obviously affected our ability to challenge and compete for honours and has came at a high cost financially.

 

The reason I ask is because I see a lot of "Martins will never come good for us" or "we'll never win things with Martins in our side", comments all based on his weaknesses. Yet staggeringly he is only 22 and it isn't beyond reasonable doubt that he can improve. I say improve, scoring 17 goals and setting up numerous others in his first ever season in English football leading the line for a mid-table team, is not to be sniffed at or overlooked, which many seem to do while banging on about his footballing brain, control or movement.

 

These kind of things are also said about other players.

 

Well we will never ever win anything or get anywhere if we keep peddling players who are not the finished article and I think it's nigh time we started developing these very players we dismiss far too easily.

 

BTW wasn't it Bellamy who was the last player we stuck by and developed? If so I find it ironic that many would like to see him back here and in place of Martins... even if it would cost us £12m or whatever.   

 

NUFC fans are far too impatient when it comes to players and their games. At any other club Martins would be seen as a bright star of the future, a talent worth sticking with. Same goes for Milner, Taylor and others who get slagged rotten or labeled as players who will never fulfil any potential. Well they fucking won't if we aren't prepared to give them the time required.

 

I think that they are not just impatient, they don't know or understand what it takes to be successful. And in some cases don't want to know either.

 

Take Martins, and the assertion that he isn't good enough. Basically, he isn't, but Bellamy is. The judgement is being made on the basis that people don't like Bellamy's personality. In the same way that people didn't like Shepherd personality so thought he was a shit chairman.

 

Supporters of the clubs who win things, will tell you that the only thing that matters are what happens on the pitch. If people seriously want to learn, they will listen, take note and learn from it.

 

Ref Martins, a few spectacular goals, like at Spurs, doesn't make a good player, only consistent performance ie doing the basic things well with deliberation, the things required for the position you play in, coupled with the desire to be consistent, does. You will not be a good team in the league with inconsistent players that fail at the basics and the things which you need to be most effective at, which are the things and opportunities  which occur the most during a football match.

 

The best players are the ones who perform the basic things consistently, and build on that with moments of quality, but the consistency is vital. A player with skills who doesn't perform because he lacks desire etc is no better than a player with less ability who can't perform anyway.

 

 

[skryp2nit3]

And I'm not talking about someone coming through the youth ranks. When did we last buy an unfinished article, stuck with that player and that player developed into a fine player for us? I'm asking because I think this is a very important aspect of the club that hasn't always been in effect. Just look at the number of players we have bought, often for good money, who weren't retained after a poor start, or whose game never developed at all. There have been too many. And this has obviously affected our ability to challenge and compete for honours and has came at a high cost financially.

 

The reason I ask is because I see a lot of "Martins will never come good for us" or "we'll never win things with Martins in our side", comments all based on his weaknesses. Yet staggeringly he is only 22 and it isn't beyond reasonable doubt that he can improve. I say improve, scoring 17 goals and setting up numerous others in his first ever season in English football leading the line for a mid-table team, is not to be sniffed at or overlooked, which many seem to do while banging on about his footballing brain, control or movement.

 

These kind of things are also said about other players.

 

Well we will never ever win anything or get anywhere if we keep peddling players who are not the finished article and I think it's nigh time we started developing these very players we dismiss far too easily.

 

BTW wasn't it Bellamy who was the last player we stuck by and developed? If so I find it ironic that many would like to see him back here and in place of Martins... even if it would cost us £12m or whatever.   

 

NUFC fans are far too impatient when it comes to players and their games. At any other club Martins would be seen as a bright star of the future, a talent worth sticking with. Same goes for Milner, Taylor and others who get slagged rotten or labeled as players who will never fulfil any potential. Well they fucking won't if we aren't prepared to give them the time required.

 

I think that they are not just impatient, they don't know or understand what it takes to be successful. And in some cases don't want to know either.

 

Take Martins, and the assertion that he isn't good enough. Basically, he isn't, but Bellamy is. The judgement is being made on the basis that people don't like Bellamy's personality. In the same way that people didn't like Shepherd personality so thought he was a shit chairman.

 

Supporters of the clubs who win things, will tell you that the only thing that matters are what happens on the pitch. If people seriously want to learn, they will listen, take note and learn from it.

 

Ref Martins, a few spectacular goals, like at Spurs, doesn't make a good player, only consistent performance ie doing the basic things well with deliberation, the things required for the position you play in, coupled with the desire to be consistent, does. You will not be a good team in the league with inconsistent players that fail at the basics and the things which you need to be most effective at, which are the things and opportunities  which occur the most during a football match.

The best players are the ones who perform the basic things consistently, and build on that with moments of quality, but the consistency is vital. A player with skills who doesn't perform because he lacks desire etc is no better than a player with less ability who can't perform anyway.

 

 

 

Great post, especially the last bit about good players. It's the same reason I loved to watch Zidane play, his basics were fantastic and he does the simple things amazingly well, despite his obvious flair and talent.