Willow Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 In what ways though? If he had a good first touch, good movement, etc. I'd agree, but he lacked the basics. Yes. Instead of hitting left foot/right foot screamers into the net, jumping to flash the ball with his head for goal, racing clear with blistering pace, chesting the ball down to hit the ball first time on the half-volley,... he should have laid the ball safely back to Carr to swing a high cross towards the goal... Haha, spot on. Can't believe you muppets want to see the back of him........WTF! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 On the flip side of this, any play with ambition would leave Newcastle for Arsenal so you can understand why he'd want to go. Thanks to Shepherd we've got no say in the matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 he's not a bad player.....................but!!!!!!! i honestly think he'd fit better into the man utd set up than ours or arsenals don't think anyone says he's a bad player, as a striker he's doing his job, scoring goals. But thing is there are players who doing much more than walloping them in. Even Shearer had a good cross, eye for a pass, hold the ball, keep it simple, defend. Henry, free kicks, creative flair, skills etc... Martin's has pace and shooting, but that's it. If he is having a bad game then you may as well take him off as won't offer good passing, tackling, defending, marking, free kicks or creative flair. Another player may offer us more to the team over a season as Oba does these thing far less frequently. Like his goals though... and he is young. I say keep him as he is already a player of ours and with good guidance and coaching, he may develop to an amazing standard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Yup. Masses of potential imo. You say that, but what exactly did you see about him that suggests that? He scored 17 fecking goals in a totally alien environment in his debut season, for one thing. That doesn't really answer my question tbh. His goal count was ok imo but bloated by playing in the Uefa Cup. I know they still count etc. but it's a pretty weak competition these days, especially in the early rounds. He scored 11 in the league which is (as I said) ok for a first season. Could you be more specific about this 'potential' thing though? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 In what ways though? If he had a good first touch, good movement, etc. I'd agree, but he lacked the basics. Yes. Instead of hitting left foot/right foot screamers into the net, jumping to flash the ball with his head for goal, racing clear with blistering pace, chesting the ball down to hit the ball first time on the half-volley,... he should have laid the ball safely back to Carr to swing a high cross towards the goal... Haha, spot on. Can't believe you muppets want to see the back of him........WTF! You're talking about the 17 things he's done right. He's done 100s of things wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Worthless going over the same points again and again. People are ridiculously fickle regarding Martins imo, i'll leave it at that. 50% are realistic. 25% are fickle. 25% are harsh. I consider myself firmly in the first bracket. Daft what some people expect of him, 17 goals in a totally new/utterly shit team and other such circumstances just ain't enough apparantely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan Shearer 9 Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Tbh, Martins probably cost us a good few matches last season he was that poor at times. Won us some too, Spurs away, being the most prevalent. Anyone who says Martins doesen't have potential is being overly harsh imo, and making a misjudgement based on his last 10 games for us in which he, amongst others was absolute shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Muppets just for saying we'd take £13m? F*ck off man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Must be s*** if Wenger wants him. Yeah but Wenger signed Jeffer etc. Only Jeffers? I heard he bought a few other decent players too in his time.. Yeah he signed Wreh, Alliadiere, Baptista, Reyes, Adebayor too. I can't see Arsenal get any closer to the league title with a striker force of Van Persie, Adebayor and Martins. Wengers lost the plot really, Arsenal to finish 6th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 If Wenger gets his hands on him, Martins will be one of the deadliest strikers in Europe in three to five years. Aye. Its easy to see him reaching that level. The guy can turn anyone and blast the ball into the net like few others can in the game. Teach him the basics, play him in a passing team that will give him the ball to feet, and he could easily be a frightening player. Its no suprise at all that Wenger wants him. Martins was brilliant in both games against Arsenal iirc, he turned up for those because he wanted to impress - probably knows that Wenger has him in his thoughts (sexual or not, who knows). It goes to show that one of the problems with him last season, and in fact the entire squad, was motivation - the only really impressive performances the team put in were in the big games when the squad motviated itself. Which also isnt a suprise considering the shiteness of the previous managers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Wiltord the Second tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Alex: In what ways though? If he had a good first touch, good movement, etc. I'd agree, but he lacked the basics. His touch is shit, i won't deny that. But the guy's got talent - he scored 17 goals in his debut season for a shit English team. Something that is mega different to anything he's ever played in before. He was effectively playing a more offensive position than normal, cos he was the only striker we had. Yet he still put a decent shift in. Movement can be worked on, and that was my major gripe with him, or it was last season as he was a centre-forward, but he was unlike one and was static. But it can be worked on with good teaching. Teaching a striker to move is hardly something that can't be done. And when he establishes causing the defense trouble with running without the ball, he'll come on in leaps and bounds, cos only a miniscule percentage of Premiership defenders can even catch teh bastard. Sorting his touch out is down to him, though. We know that it's there, it just needs to be utilised. A good team/good staff will help that. And our staff, at the very least, will be 100% better this season than what it was last. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Would much rather him go to Italy if he must go. Losing a 17-goal-scoring 22 year old international to a club we're presumably trying to eventually overtake (thank you Mr Ashley) due to a very regrettable and frankly idiotically low buyout clause is not in the club's best interests, no matter what some on here would have you believe. There would be tremendous pressure on Sam to replace him with a top drawer forward - the sort of player that may not be likely to come to our club at this time. Hope it's not true, suspect it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 You just have to realise that he won't be on his own next season. He'll have back up, he'll have better midfielders to thread it through and possibly do a lot of the hard work for him! With hopefully a solid defence put in place that would put a lot less pressure on Oba to score so many and with Owen/Viduka working beside him, it can only be a good thing. I hope to god he stays. I'd be so disappointed if he left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Wenger must be lined up to take over here when his contract runs out I reckon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 I'm with Yorkie on this one. Martins did very well here last season and he will only get better. I'd be disgusted if we sold him to Arse and in a few years he's one of the best strikers in the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan Shearer 9 Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Yup. Masses of potential imo. You say that, but what exactly did you see about him that suggests that? He scored 17 fecking goals in a totally alien environment in his debut season, for one thing. That doesn't really answer my question tbh. His goal count was ok imo but bloated by playing in the Uefa Cup. I know they still count etc. but it's a pretty weak competition these days, especially in the early rounds. He scored 11 in the league which is (as I said) ok for a first season. Could you be more specific about this 'potential' thing though? The game vs AZ at home showed both sides of him. He looked absolutely awesome in the first half, taking players on, scoring two good goals with his right foot, one the result of some excellent movement in the box, he was on fire. Then he wasted some good chances in the second half to get his hat trick. If you can't see his potential you must be a party pooper or something equally as bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pie Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Am holding my breath tbh. Would be really disappointed if he did leave. Why?? He can't pass, control a ball or shoot with finesse. He has pace but doesn't use it wisely, never makes top quality strikers runs in the box and his only real asset is smacking the ball as hard as he can and hoping. Wenger doesnt get a lot wrong - the occasional one but not many. Personally think Oba is ok with a few flaws that are manageable. Your dismissal of him echos your statistical dismissal of Kieran Dyer without really thinking about it. To put it bluntly, I dont think much of your judgement. If there were other players that we could guarantee would come here I may agree that we should sell on. I dont think there are. Do we need the money now? Whether we have had value for money isnt the argument, its whether we can afford to sell him and see Owen go in January. Not worth the risk tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Tbh, Martins probably cost us a good few matches last season he was that poor at times. Won us some too, Spurs away, being the most prevalent. Anyone who says Martins doesen't have potential is being overly harsh imo, and making a misjudgement based on his last 10 games for us in which he, amongst others was absolute shit. IE - every other fucker in the squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Alex: In what ways though? If he had a good first touch, good movement, etc. I'd agree, but he lacked the basics. His touch is s***, i won't deny that. But the guy's got talent - he scored 17 goals in his debut season for a s*** English team. Something that is mega different to anything he's ever played in before. He was effectively playing a more offensive position than normal, cos he was the only striker we had. Yet he still put a decent shift in. Movement can be worked on, and that was my major gripe with him, or it was last season as he was a centre-forward, but he was unlike one and was static. But it can be worked on with good teaching. Teaching a striker to move is hardly something that can't be done. And when he establishes causing the defense trouble with running without the ball, he'll come on in leaps and bounds, cos only a miniscule percentage of Premiership defenders can even catch teh b******. Sorting his touch out is down to him, though. We know that it's there, it just needs to be utilised. A good team/good staff will help that. And our staff, at the very least, will be 100% better this season than what it was last. I keep going back to it, but surely Martins would have learned a lot about movement from working with all of those great strikers at Inter. Do you really think that one day when he's 25 or 26, it's just going to click? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pie Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 In what ways though? If he had a good first touch, good movement, etc. I'd agree, but he lacked the basics. Yes. Instead of hitting left foot/right foot screamers into the net, jumping to flash the ball with his head for goal, racing clear with blistering pace, chesting the ball down to hit the ball first time on the half-volley,... he should have laid the ball safely back to Carr to swing a high cross towards the goal... Haha, spot on. Can't believe you muppets want to see the back of him........WTF! You're talking about the 17 things he's done right. He's done 100s of things wrong. Cos we can afford to do without those 17 things he did right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Now we have a fully-fit Owen & Viduka, then yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan Shearer 9 Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Am holding my breath tbh. Would be really disappointed if he did leave. Why?? He can't pass, control a ball or shoot with finesse. He has pace but doesn't use it wisely, never makes top quality strikers runs in the box and his only real asset is smacking the ball as hard as he can and hoping. Wenger doesnt get a lot wrong - the occasional one but not many. Personally think Oba is ok with a few flaws that are manageable. Your dismissal of him echos your statistical dismissal of Kieran Dyer without really thinking about it. To put it bluntly, I dont think much of your judgement. If there were other players that we could guarantee would come here I may agree that we should sell on. I dont think there are. Do we need the money now? Whether we have had value for money isnt the argument, its whether we can afford to sell him and see Owen go in January. Not worth the risk tbh On NSG's judgement, he said Pattison was the new Platini, and Ramage was the new Beckenbauer iirc (this may not be true) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Alex: In what ways though? If he had a good first touch, good movement, etc. I'd agree, but he lacked the basics. His touch is shit, i won't deny that. But the guy's got talent - he scored 17 goals in his debut season for a shit English team. Something that is mega different to anything he's ever played in before. He was effectively playing a more offensive position than normal, cos he was the only striker we had. Yet he still put a decent shift in. Movement can be worked on, and that was my major gripe with him, or it was last season as he was a centre-forward, but he was unlike one and was static. But it can be worked on with good teaching. Teaching a striker to move is hardly something that can't be done. And when he establishes causing the defense trouble with running without the ball, he'll come on in leaps and bounds, cos only a miniscule percentage of Premiership defenders can even catch teh bastard. Sorting his touch out is down to him, though. We know that it's there, it just needs to be utilised. A good team/good staff will help that. And our staff, at the very least, will be 100% better this season than what it was last. Movement is pretty instinctive imo, it can be improved yes but his is awful and he's been playing in the most tactical league in the world before now so if you think he's got potential in that sense, you might as well argue any young striker with poor movement has imo. He's got something about him, i.e. the ability to do the extradinary but, imo, his basics are so lacking that he'll always be inconsistent. Anyway, as Dave says this has been done to death and it's all about opinions, eh? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Now we have a fully-fit Owen & Viduka, then yes. From the way Owen's played since he's been back from injury I wouldn't get my hope's up about him this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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