TRon Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Isn't it significant that Allardyce only vent his frustration last week when he learned that Martins had a release clause as well as Owen? Isn't it significant that Viduka is suddenly expressing uncertainty over who will be his strike partner next season? If Owens and Martins leave it will have a severe impact on Viduka's effectiveness. Replacing either of those two won't be easy IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Alex: In what ways though? If he had a good first touch, good movement, etc. I'd agree, but he lacked the basics. His touch is shit, i won't deny that. But the guy's got talent - he scored 17 goals in his debut season for a shit English team. Something that is mega different to anything he's ever played in before. He was effectively playing a more offensive position than normal, cos he was the only striker we had. Yet he still put a decent shift in. Movement can be worked on, and that was my major gripe with him, or it was last season as he was a centre-forward, but he was unlike one and was static. But it can be worked on with good teaching. Teaching a striker to move is hardly something that can't be done. And when he establishes causing the defense trouble with running without the ball, he'll come on in leaps and bounds, cos only a miniscule percentage of Premiership defenders can even catch teh bastard. Sorting his touch out is down to him, though. We know that it's there, it just needs to be utilised. A good team/good staff will help that. And our staff, at the very least, will be 100% better this season than what it was last. Movement is pretty instinctive imo, it can be improved yes but his is awful and he's been playing in the most tactical league in the world before now so if you think he's got potential in that sense, you might as well argue any young striker with poor movement has imo. He's got something about him, i.e. the ability to do the extradinary but, imo, his basics are so lacking that he'll always be inconsistent. Anyway, as Dave says this has been done to death and it's all about opinions, eh? Fair enough, if that's what you think then i can't really argue with you mate. I think movement can be taught, you don't. Besides, as a sort of coutner-argument, there was a few goals last season where movement in the box was key. Header vs Levadia, Header vs Watford, round-keeper vs Liverpool, 1st and 2nd against Alkmaar to name a few. Still, i'd definitely agree that his movement isn't good. But like i say, i think it can be taught, you don't. Would love to see the product of a Martins/Shearer football love-in. Not quite what I said. It can be taught in that it can be improved but I'd expect it to be a lot better in someone of Martins' age if it was ever going to be what I'd call good. You're right in that he did show some good movement for some of the goals he scored though. There's different kinds of movement though and it's more his lack of it off the ball outside rather than in the box that is my concern. I do think it would be unfair to judge him on last season though but at the same time from what I've seen I'd sell (if it meant getting someone like Anelka instead). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Regardless of whether he's over his injury or not in terms of form, Owen is always one sprint away from a hamstring injury, and that's about the best you can hope for with him. No chance he'll stay fit for 30+ games imo and behind him, you need a capable striker in case he doesn't even manage 20. We sell Martins and we'll have to buy one, with the way prices are we're either going to have to buy another unproven foreigner who'll need a year to settle and will therefore get the 'Martins treatment' next summer, if he's lucky, or spend ridiculous money on some overrated English no-mark. £8m for Nugent ffs and don't get me started on Alan Smith. Obviously, thanks to Shepherd's negotiating genius, we might not have much say in the matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 . I think you're a top poster, arguably the most intelligent on here, fuck me. I hope THAT is sarcasm You're just jealous. Baggio's a right smarty pants tbh, he's annoyingly right most of the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Darren Bent is better and will remain better than Martins, imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan Shearer 9 Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 they don't call Martins the exploder for nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 30-pager by this time tomorrow btw Already 20% there. Sure you want to stick on just 30? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Darren Bent is better and will remain better than Martins, imo. And will remain about a £zillion over-priced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan Shearer 9 Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 this thread has EXPLODED into life, rather like Obafemi "THE EXPLODER" Martins explodes on occasion on the pitch. Yes, I am a cunning linguist indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Now we have a fully-fit Owen & Viduka, then yes. From the way Owen's played since he's been back from injury I wouldn't get my hope's up about him this season. You mean the way vs Reading he was the only good player for our team on the pitch? He had a few chances in the first 10 minutes, went missing the rest of the game. he was running into our half winning the ball back because our team was so s***. You expect him to do it all by himself? I don't think much of your judgement anyway given your views on Milner. People said the same about my judgement when I said Scott Parker was shite earlier in the season too. I think you're being a tad harsh. I think he found something in the last few games of last season that i didnt see that much of before the injuries. Definitely a different element to his game based on a bit more strength. I'd happily sell him for more than £10m though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 I'd like Owen to stay, but if one of him or Martins were to leave, i'd rather it be Mickey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 I'd like Owen to stay, but if one of him or Martins were to leave, i'd rather it be Mickey. mickey martins ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leazes1986 Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Wonder if Parker had a clause as well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Wonder if Parker had a clause as well Most probably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I'd like Owen to stay, but if one of him or Martins were to leave, i'd rather it be Mickey. mickey martins ? No, Mickey Owen actually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 If Martins has a 13m sell on clause, it doesn't matter whether we think he deserves to stay or go........he'll be off to Arsenal if he wants to leave us. Personally I'm indifferent. People seem to talk about 2 different strikers - one lazy with poor movement who drifts out of games, the other a pacey cold eyed killer who can turn matches at a stroke. This being Newcastle I know which we'll end up with if he stays. tbh 13m for someone in his early thirties and approaching the twilight of his career is pretty good. His pace'll go soon then his legs. Anyone who honestly believes he's 22, just have a look at his old man's face.... Kitman nails it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pie Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Darren Bent is better and will remain better than Martins, imo. Really? I saw a lot of Darren Bent at Ipswich. Good player. It's easy to see the good in players from highlights. He has his flaws too. People tend to overlook them when they don't see players week in week out. I can't see the future too well but I can see potential. Where it is and where it isnt. Darren Bent will always be a steadier player than Martens. More reliable. However, Martens has the capacity to be far better. It's a gamble of course. Martens has many flaws but he does have the ability to do things Bent simply can't do. Depends what you want. A good player who will do a steady job or one who may end up doing a lot more. Personally, I would go for the latter. Not entirely convinced he will get there but he certainly has the ammunition. In our situation I would take that risk. Particularly if Michael Owen stays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 this thread has EXPLODED into life, rather like Obafemi "THE EXPLODER" Martins explodes on occasion on the pitch. Yes, I am a cunning linguist indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 What's funny is that Anal Oliver after bad-mouthing him all season has suddenly started talking of Martins as good value at £13m. The same arsehole who slagged off Allardyce last season and is now kissing his arse royally. You got this one wrong as well you ponce. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan Shearer 9 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 this thread has EXPLODED into life, rather like Obafemi "THE EXPLODER" Martins explodes on occasion on the pitch. Yes, I am a cunning linguist indeed. Will he EXPLODE onto the scene at Arsenal and help them EXPLODE their way to another Premiership title? Or will he stay here and EXPLODE Sunderland back to the Championship. You just don't know what will happen when the Obafemi "THE EXPLODER" Martins is about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I'd sooner keep Owen & Martins, but I'd be happy for Martins to go if Owen was definitely staying, however, if Owen's on his way I'd keep Martins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Infact - that's all i'm saying tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Now we have a fully-fit Owen & Viduka, then yes. From the way Owen's played since he's been back from injury I wouldn't get my hope's up about him this season. You mean the way vs Reading he was the only good player for our team on the pitch? He had a few chances in the first 10 minutes, went missing the rest of the game. he was running into our half winning the ball back because our team was so s***. You expect him to do it all by himself? I don't think much of your judgement anyway given your views on Milner. People said the same about my judgement when I said Scott Parker was s**** earlier in the season too. I think you're being a tad harsh. I think he found something in the last few games of last season that i didnt see that much of before the injuries. Definitely a different element to his game based on a bit more strength. I'd happily sell him for more than £10m though. Michael Owen has been out for the best part of 18 months before he made his comeback, I know he needs time to get back up to the speed of the Premiership but we were told his level of fitness was excellent so he should be able to sprint at full pace, we've seen in the games he's played for us and England that is pace is nothing compared to what it was, he's tried to combat this by bulking up so he'll be effective in other ways. Owen will be similar to how Shearer was when he came back from his serious injury, with his pace as good as gone he'll need to have the ball given to him on a plate as he'll struggle to get away from defenders now, for him to stay here he'll need a partner to do all his running for him like Bellamy done for Shearer, neither Martins or Viduka will do that IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 this thread has EXPLODED into life, rather like Obafemi "THE EXPLODER" Martins explodes on occasion on the pitch. Yes, I am a cunning linguist indeed. Will he EXPLODE onto the scene at Arsenal and help them EXPLODE their way to another Premiership title? Or will he stay here and EXPLODE Sunderland back to the Championship. You just don't know what will happen when the Obafemi "THE EXPLODER" Martins is about. You truly are a nutter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I'd sooner keep Owen & Martins, but I'd be happy for Martins to go if Owen was definitely staying, however, if Owen's on his way I'd keep Martins. I'm with you. Owen is world class. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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