Parky Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I chuckle even as I type out the thread title. The last couple of years on here there have been so many 'preachers' of the 'new way'. The continental system of DOF and manager. But what happens if the DOF isn't sanctioning or actioning the correct purchases? What happens if he starts to question the managers judgement and tactics? If you like this season is as much about the traditional manager ie Big Sam as against the 'continental style' of Commoli and Martin the mong. Chaos they say has descending at WHL with clandestine meeting with candidates. A good strong manager is all you need. Said it all along. blueyes.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Surely could have went in the "FAO Martin Jol" thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Shove it in there if it doesn't have any legs. This is more about the systems though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Fair do's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I can't see how it can work if you have one man in charge of player recruitment, and another in charge of coaching and team selection. In any line of business, staff selection is a very important skill. If the bloke who has to get results isn't the one who is selecting the staff, then you've got trouble. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 What has Martin Jol said? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 It's been good enough to get Spurs from a lower midtable side to the fifth best team in the country over the past few years, they've overtaken us in the process, building a better squad all without going into debt so it can't be that bad. Jol may go but the system will stay at Spurs and they will continue to improve as a club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 What has Martin Jol said? He's said he hates the way Comolli spits in his tea all the time and the way Comolli brings in home made latka pies for Levy the beancounter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Where did he say this, Parky? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I can't see how it can work if you have one man in charge of player recruitment, and another in charge of coaching and team selection. In any line of business, staff selection is a very important skill. If the bloke who has to get results isn't the one who is selecting the staff, then you've got trouble. Alternatively, if the bloke who has to get results doesn't have a clue about who to bring in or which buy represents value for money you end up with a lot of expensive dead wood, which is what we've witnessed with our previous two managers. Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses. I personally believe that a DoF who works well with the manager and is concerned with the long term planning (i.e. youth setup, scouting network etc) leaving the short term first team decisions to the manager can be a real asset to a club. Just because Jol is under pressure doesn't mean their setup is a failure. They've still got an awful lot of talent and if they bring in an even better manager like Ramos it could push them forward even more than their two respective top 5 finishes (which people seem to conveniently forget about after Spurs' disappointing start to the campaign).. Just because there's apparently some issues now doesn't mean the(ir) DoF setup is worthless all of a sudden. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Where did he say this, Parky? Samples of the tea have been taken away for analysis by the North London plod. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 A good strong manager is all you need. Said it all along. blueyes.gif You mean a Proper Manager like Souness mackems.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 A good strong manager is all you need. Said it all along. blueyes.gif You mean a Proper Manager like Souness mackems.gif Yeah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 As Baggio said this "planning" has got them European places for the last couple of seasons, bit of a kneejerk based upon media speculation....? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I can't see how it can work if you have one man in charge of player recruitment, and another in charge of coaching and team selection. In any line of business, staff selection is a very important skill. If the bloke who has to get results isn't the one who is selecting the staff, then you've got trouble. Alternatively, if the bloke who has to get results doesn't have a clue about who to bring in or which buy represents value for money you end up with a lot of expensive dead wood, which is what we've witnessed with our previous two managers. Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses. I personally believe that a DoF who works well with the manager and is concerned with the long term planning (i.e. youth setup, scouting network etc) leaving the short term first team decisions to the manager can be a real asset to a club. Just because Jol is under pressure doesn't mean their setup is a failure. They've still got an awful lot of talent and if they bring in an even better manager like Ramos it could push them forward even more than their two respective top 5 finishes (which people seem to conveniently forget about after Spurs' disappointing start to the campaign).. Just because there's apparently some issues now doesn't mean the(ir) DoF setup is worthless all of a sudden. Even at Chelsea where the roles seem to be clearly defined there was friction all last season..Arnensen/Kenyon/Mourinho it is said rarely saw eye to eye on purchases (Schevchenko and now Alex), to the point that Mourinho it was felt might even leave in the summer. Weave into this Pini Zhavi and his 'cut' and there is quite a spiders web for any manager to handle. With Big Sam if he didn't chose the DOF I'd leave things as they are....Notwithstanding recent rumours...wink wink.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Unbelievable is spot on, it's what I said in the other thread on the same subject down the page and it's what Wenger is looking for. Who knows? Perhaps Allardyce wouldn't have missed out on his top targets with an experienced DOF finalising all the players he wants. Typical Parky kneejerk thread tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 That said, Chelsea have done ok over the last 3 seasons Parky. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 As Baggio said this "planning" has got them European places for the last couple of seasons, bit of a kneejerk based upon media speculation....? Fucking hell Europeeen places!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 That said, Chelsea have done ok over the last 3 seasons Parky. They haven't spent a penny have they? BTW I don't think Kenyon would agree with you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I can't see how it can work if you have one man in charge of player recruitment, and another in charge of coaching and team selection. In any line of business, staff selection is a very important skill. If the bloke who has to get results isn't the one who is selecting the staff, then you've got trouble. Alternatively, if the bloke who has to get results doesn't have a clue about who to bring in or which buy represents value for money you end up with a lot of expensive dead wood, which is what we've witnessed with our previous two managers. Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses. I personally believe that a DoF who works well with the manager and is concerned with the long term planning (i.e. youth setup, scouting network etc) leaving the short term first team decisions to the manager can be a real asset to a club. Just because Jol is under pressure doesn't mean their setup is a failure. They've still got an awful lot of talent and if they bring in an even better manager like Ramos it could push them forward even more than their two respective top 5 finishes (which people seem to conveniently forget about after Spurs' disappointing start to the campaign).. Just because there's apparently some issues now doesn't mean the(ir) DoF setup is worthless all of a sudden. Even at Chelsea where the roles seem to be clearly defined there was friction all last season..Arnensen/Kenyon/Mourinho it is said rarely saw eye to eye on purchases (Schevchenko and now Alex), to the point that Mourinho it was felt might even leave in the summer. Weave into this Pini Zhavi and his 'cut' and there is quite a spiders web for any manager to handle. With Big Sam if he didn't chose the DOF I'd leave things as they are....Notwithstanding recent rumours...wink wink.. If the chairman of a club wanted to install a DoF to oversee the long term planning of the club, the last thing he should do is let the current manager chose this person. Consult the manager yes, take account of his preferences and considerations certainly, but I can't see the sense in letting the manager (somebody who is there temporarily in nearly all cases) chose the DoF.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 That said, Chelsea have done ok over the last 3 seasons Parky. They haven't spent a penny have they? They've spent money and had the most successful 3 years in their history. Your point being? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I can't see how it can work if you have one man in charge of player recruitment, and another in charge of coaching and team selection. In any line of business, staff selection is a very important skill. If the bloke who has to get results isn't the one who is selecting the staff, then you've got trouble. Alternatively, if the bloke who has to get results doesn't have a clue about who to bring in or which buy represents value for money you end up with a lot of expensive dead wood, which is what we've witnessed with our previous two managers. Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses. I personally believe that a DoF who works well with the manager and is concerned with the long term planning (i.e. youth setup, scouting network etc) leaving the short term first team decisions to the manager can be a real asset to a club. Just because Jol is under pressure doesn't mean their setup is a failure. They've still got an awful lot of talent and if they bring in an even better manager like Ramos it could push them forward even more than their two respective top 5 finishes (which people seem to conveniently forget about after Spurs' disappointing start to the campaign).. Just because there's apparently some issues now doesn't mean the(ir) DoF setup is worthless all of a sudden. Even at Chelsea where the roles seem to be clearly defined there was friction all last season..Arnensen/Kenyon/Mourinho it is said rarely saw eye to eye on purchases (Schevchenko and now Alex), to the point that Mourinho it was felt might even leave in the summer. Weave into this Pini Zhavi and his 'cut' and there is quite a spiders web for any manager to handle. With Big Sam if he didn't chose the DOF I'd leave things as they are....Notwithstanding recent rumours...wink wink.. If the chairman of a club wanted to install a DoF to oversee the long term planning of the club, the last thing he should do is let the current manager chose this person. Consult the manager yes, take account of his preferences and considerations certainly, but I can't see the sense in letting the manager (somebody who is there temporarily in nearly all cases) chose the DoF.. I think you'd have to do that. But better still let him find someone he can work with or suggest some candidates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 That said, Chelsea have done ok over the last 3 seasons Parky. They haven't spent a penny have they? They've spent money and had the most successful 3 years in their history. Your point being? It's Kenyon's point that matters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Schevchenko was wanted by Abramovich as he was a close friend, nothing to do with Arnesen. Whats the problem supposed to be with Alex? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Schevchenko was wanted by Abramovich as he was a close friend, nothing to do with Arnesen. Whats the problem supposed to be with Alex? As usual you are wrong. Schevchenko was suggested by Pini Zhavi. Roman liked the look of him but it wasn't his idea. It is said they are friends yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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