Baggio Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Where as you've formed what opinion Parky? You've decide Spurs poor start to the season is down to their set up but have no idea why Man utd's had a worse start. If spurs get rid of Jol and get Ramos because Comolli doesn't think he's good enough it'll be a missive improvement for them, much better than the scenario we had when we sacked Robson with no clue of a replacement, thats what happens when you have a non footballing person running the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 In your opinion he's destroying them where as my opinion is he's made them stronger than they've ever been since the Premier league started, if they get rid of Jol and get someone like Ramos then we could see the next stage of their plan. If Comolli did leave Spurs his likely destination would be Arsenal anyway. All I see is a team supposedly 'buying for the future' but the future never comes. Bar Berbs Comolli has had little affect on the current side apart from making Jol feel his job is unsafe for the last year or so. Have a look at his cv. 7 years at Saint Etienne (hardly big guns in Euro are they?). Wenger was thinking about Rodent ffs...My questioning of his judgement was too kind it seems. he was never at st etienne for 7 years, but he was Arsene Wenger's head scout for 7 years, scouting the likes of Toure and Eboue, then he went to St Etienne for a couple of years before spurs snatched him up. My mistake. Spurs took him for the same reason Chelsea stole Arnensen...They both had an in with key young players around Europe. That is understandable and I'm all for it. The Dutch contingent inc Arnesen at Chelsea haven't been doing much more than suggesting players to Kenyon and devloping the overall contact and knowledge base. Hence the arrival of the the Israeli. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Where as you've formed what opinion Parky? You've decide Spurs poor start to the season is down to their set up but have no idea why Man utd's had a worse start. If spurs get rid of Jol and get Ramos because Comolli doesn't think he's good enough it'll be a missive improvement for them, much better than the scenario we had when we sacked Robson with no clue of a replacement, thats what happens when you have a non footballing person running the club. You haven't explained why Comolli a jumped up youth scout is in any position to decide who is good enough at anything. Have you? Just throwing slights my way isn't really a debate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 More DOF lunacy... http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/premiership/article2710693.ece Avram Grant has been appointed Chelsea's new sporting director, according to sources at the Premiership club. The move, which is expected to be officially announced after 1 July, is a further sign of the tenuous grip that manager Jose Mourinho has on his own job. Crucially Grant will be given wide-ranging powers - including involvement in coaching, signing players and their recruitment. Mourinho will not walk out, as he threatened to do when Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich first proposed employing Grant back in January as a means of improving the club's fortunes and getting more out of misfiring striker Andrei Shevchenko in particular. However, it will be fascinating to see how Mourinho copes with the new structure. Grant will leave his current post as technical director of Portsmouth. It is understood that Grant, who had never previously worked outside Israel, has agreed a two-year contract. Same newspaper, different article: http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/premiership/article2747706.ece Grant has met Mourinho and is said to be on reasonably friendly terms with the Chelsea manager and will try to stay low-profile in his first few months at the club. Mourinho will certainly have concerns about the potentially divisive influence of Grant, although the Israeli was cast in the same role when he joined Portsmouth and has since won over the manager, Harry Redknapp, with his loyalty and football insight. Redknapp said yesterday: "I wish Avram all the best and I will miss him a lot. He was great for me at Portsmouth." The two even socialise outside football. Avram was only DoF at Portsmouth for one year, which coincidentally was their best season in the Premiership by a landslide (2006).. Lunacy indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Because he's a football man who has wide contacts within the World of football, he's someone who knows youth football and it's set up and is someone who can devote all his time to running the club, the other options are having Levy running the football side of things when he (like Shepherd) doesn't really have a clue or have the manager do it when he should be spending his time concentrating on the first team. Thats the reason Wenger wants one as he's left with a board who have little idea of the other things involved in the football side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 This is what Mourinho has to deal with under this enlightened system.. Arnesen and his cronies from PSV recommending players to Roman. Kenyon recommending players to Roman. Pini Zahavi recommending players to Roman. Kenyon hiring a some Israeli football all seer from Portsmouth to oversee everything...A man who has barely touched the ground outside of Israeli football. Kenyon arguing with Mourinho about buying Alex at Arnesens behest. Roman on the blower to Hiddink. Hiddink on the blower to Kenyon and Arnesen. Zhavi recommending more players. Roman insisting that Mourinho plays Schevchenko. Schevchenko insiting he wants back to Milan. etc.... mackems.gif Is Mourinho being undermined? Of course he is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 This is what Mourinho has to deal with under this enlightened system.. Arnesen and his cronies from PSV recommending players to Roman. Kenyon recommending players to Roman. Pini Zahavi recommending players to Roman. Kenyon hiring a some Israeli football all seer from Portsmouth to oversee everything...A man who has barely touched the ground outside of Israeli football. Kenyon arguing with Mourinho about buying Alex at Arnesens behest. Roman on the blower to Hiddink. Hiddink on the blower to Kenyon and Arnesen. Zhavi recommending more players. Roman insisting that Mourinho plays Schevchenko. Schevchenko insiting he wants back to Milan. etc.... mackems.gif Is Mourinho being undermined? Of course he is. You're right. These people know nothing about football. Much better to leave these footballing matters to an offshore and marine business executive or a City lawyer.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 This is what Mourinho has to deal with under this enlightened system.. Arnesen and his cronies from PSV recommending players to Roman. Kenyon recommending players to Roman. Pini Zahavi recommending players to Roman. Kenyon hiring a some Israeli football all seer from Portsmouth to oversee everything...A man who has barely touched the ground outside of Israeli football. Kenyon arguing with Mourinho about buying Alex at Arnesens behest. Roman on the blower to Hiddink. Hiddink on the blower to Kenyon and Arnesen. Zhavi recommending more players. Roman insisting that Mourinho plays Schevchenko. Schevchenko insiting he wants back to Milan. etc.... mackems.gif Is Mourinho being undermined? Of course he is. You're right. These people know nothing about football. Much better to leave these footballing matters to an offshore and marine business executive or a City lawyer.. Coming from the man who reckons Dien was a DOF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 If spurs get rid of Jol and get Ramos because Comolli doesn't think he's good enough it'll be a missive improvement for them, much better than the scenario we had when we sacked Robson with no clue of a replacement, thats what happens when you have a non footballing person running the club. So you think its a good idea to start tapping up other under contract managers with your current one still in place, 3 games into a season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Hire the right people... There is no reason why a 'Director of Football' shouldn't work, really. However, for me I reckon the manager of a football club must have absolute say and control over everything not outside of his jurisdiction and that includes hiring and firing a DOF because the manager is the man who sets the policies and agendas, or should be. Take Fergi at Man Utd, Wenger at Arsenal and KK at Newcastle. The biggest complaint I've heard arguing why a manager should not choose the DOF is that what happens when the manager goes? Well so does the DOF then, if the new man doesn't rate this old one or wants to bring in his own man of course. Remember a club's policy will change when a new man comes in anyway, or should do. Would we be happy with Big Sam if the club policy never changed? No we wouldn't. If the manager can't pick the DOF then friction is almost guaranteed somewhere down the line and that can be very damaging, as Spurs may well find out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Hire the right people... There is no reason why a 'Director of Football' shouldn't work, really. However, for me I reckon the manager of a football club must have absolute say and control over everything not outside of his jurisdiction and that includes hiring and firing a DOF because the manager is the man who sets the policies and agendas, or should be. Take Fergi at Man Utd, Wenger at Arsenal and KK at Newcastle. The biggest complaint I've heard arguing why a manager should not choose the DOF is that what happens when the manager goes? Well so does the DOF then, if the new man doesn't rate this old one or wants to bring in his own man of course. Remember a club's policy will change when a new man comes in anyway, or should do. Would we be happy with Big Sam if the club policy never changed? No we wouldn't. If the manager can't pick the DOF then friction is almost guaranteed somewhere down the line and that can be very damaging, as Spurs may well find out. You took you're fekin time Chris! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebolarama Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Sacking Jol is hysterical madness. That's all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 UV - Ideally it would have been done in the Summer like Chelsea and Liverpool did with their current managers but you should definitely have someone in place ready to take over, certainly better than sacking someone to find out the only replacement is Souness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniffer Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Is there a jewish conspiracy, parky? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniffer Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 8) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 UV - Ideally it would have been done in the Summer like Chelsea and Liverpool did with their current managers but you should definitely have someone in place ready to take over, certainly better than sacking someone to find out the only replacement is Souness. So what happens when the first manager you approach knocks you back and tells his mates in the press about it? The current manager is left in an untenable position, knowing he could be replaced at any time. The club would (rightly) be a laughing stock and a source of constant speculation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 This is what Mourinho has to deal with under this enlightened system.. Arnesen and his cronies from PSV recommending players to Roman. Kenyon recommending players to Roman. Pini Zahavi recommending players to Roman. Kenyon hiring a some Israeli football all seer from Portsmouth to oversee everything...A man who has barely touched the ground outside of Israeli football. Kenyon arguing with Mourinho about buying Alex at Arnesens behest. Roman on the blower to Hiddink. Hiddink on the blower to Kenyon and Arnesen. Zhavi recommending more players. Roman insisting that Mourinho plays Schevchenko. Schevchenko insiting he wants back to Milan. etc.... mackems.gif Is Mourinho being undermined? Of course he is. The manager runs everything connected with the playing side of the club, no other way will ever work. If someone else signs the players, or chooses the players, how can you sack the manager ? There is no proof whatsoever that a DOF has any impact on success at a club. It is down to the manager, and its been asked before, but what happens if everyone has a DOF ? The manager appoints ALL of his staff, because ultimately the buck stops somewhere and that is why he is appointed. If I were a manager, I wouldn't be happy someone else telling me who to buy and sell. Putting a "plan" into place that doesn't involve the manager is absolute bollocks, every manager has different ideas. The 2 or 3 with the best ones or the best judges will win the cups, the next best will qualify for europe. Those with shite "plans" will struggle ala Souness to name one. Does anyone think that the Spurs "plan" would have qualified for europe if Santini had stayed ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Sacking Jol is hysterical madness. That's all. Depends really. Spurs have spent a lot of money and appear to be in a real hurry and will no doubt be spurred on (pun not intended) by Arsenal's transitional period to get there even quicker in the hope to usurp them. If they can appoint a better manager then they will be justified to do so, like Chelsea were when they appointed Mourinho. Jol has shown promise of course and has done well for them, but does he have it in him to do a Wenger; deliver success for a club who don't have the financial power or size as others do? Spurs have already spent more than they ever have done and still can't break into that top-four. Indeed they are closer to the likes of us, Everton, Blackburn et al than they are the top-four. If they do sack Jol and say appoint Ramos, it will be a bold decision and could backfire, but when as we've experienced ourselves, sometimes you can't ignore these kind of opportunities because they seldom come along. We could have spent that £15m on Shearer more wisely, on defence for example, but we couldn't allow Man Utd to sign him, we HAD to buy him. Maybe this is something Spurs HAVE to do. What I will say is that if they do ditch Jol they should reconsider the Director of Football position also and maybe ditch that too, or let the new man choose his own man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Sacking Jol is hysterical madness. That's all. Depends really. Spurs have spent a lot of money and appear to be in a real hurry and will no doubt be spurred on (pun not intended) by Arsenal's transitional period to get there even quicker in the hope to usurp them. If they can appoint a better manager then they will be justified to do so, like Chelsea were when they appointed Mourinho. Jol has shown promise of course and has done well for them, but does he have it in him to do a Wenger; deliver success for a club who don't have the financial power or size as others do? Spurs have already spent more than they ever have done and still can't break into that top-four. Indeed they are closer to the likes of us, Everton, Blackburn et al than they are the top-four. If they do sack Jol and say appoint Ramos, it will be a bold decision and could backfire, but when as we've experienced ourselves, sometimes you can't ignore these kind of opportunities because they seldom come along. We could have spent that £15m on Shearer more wisely, on defence for example, but we couldn't allow Man Utd to sign him, we HAD to buy him. Maybe this is something Spurs HAVE to do. What I will say is that if they do ditch Jol they should reconsider the Director of Football position also and maybe ditch that too, or let the new man choose his own man. and sacking him a few weeks into the season too ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 This is what Mourinho has to deal with under this enlightened system.. Arnesen and his cronies from PSV recommending players to Roman. Kenyon recommending players to Roman. Pini Zahavi recommending players to Roman. Kenyon hiring a some Israeli football all seer from Portsmouth to oversee everything...A man who has barely touched the ground outside of Israeli football. Kenyon arguing with Mourinho about buying Alex at Arnesens behest. Roman on the blower to Hiddink. Hiddink on the blower to Kenyon and Arnesen. Zhavi recommending more players. Roman insisting that Mourinho plays Schevchenko. Schevchenko insiting he wants back to Milan. etc.... mackems.gif Is Mourinho being undermined? Of course he is. You're right. These people know nothing about football. Much better to leave these footballing matters to an offshore and marine business executive or a City lawyer.. Coming from the man who reckons Dien was a DOF. That's ridiculous. Wenger said as much. He reffered to his search for a Director of Football as somebody doing the job that Dein did previously. Of course, you would know better.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 8) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 This is what Mourinho has to deal with under this enlightened system.. Arnesen and his cronies from PSV recommending players to Roman. Kenyon recommending players to Roman. Pini Zahavi recommending players to Roman. Kenyon hiring a some Israeli football all seer from Portsmouth to oversee everything...A man who has barely touched the ground outside of Israeli football. Kenyon arguing with Mourinho about buying Alex at Arnesens behest. Roman on the blower to Hiddink. Hiddink on the blower to Kenyon and Arnesen. Zhavi recommending more players. Roman insisting that Mourinho plays Schevchenko. Schevchenko insiting he wants back to Milan. etc.... mackems.gif Is Mourinho being undermined? Of course he is. You're right. These people know nothing about football. Much better to leave these footballing matters to an offshore and marine business executive or a City lawyer.. Coming from the man who reckons Dien was a DOF. That's ridiculous. Wenger said as much. He reffered to his search for a Director of Football as somebody doing the job that Dein did previously. Of course, you would know better.. Quote from: Parky on Today at 05:01:26 PM Quote from: Unbelievable! on Today at 04:57:42 PM Quote from: Sniffer on Today at 04:47:10 PM These clubs were successful in the past without a doF. Chelsea are an anomaly. Spurs wasn't at the level that they have been in the recent past. Also, Dein has been the DoF (maybe not in title but certainly in role) at Arsenal from before Wenger was appointed in 1996 (source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/6571099.stm). Chelsea is the only other club I mentioned, and a bit of an anomaly as you mention, but still a good example as apparently Abramovic saw the sense in appointing a Director of Football rather than completely depend on the manager in place and entrust them with the cash. What has the DOF at Chelsea done? Why is Mourinho constantly bemoaning he has no youth players coming through? It's all very well signing young players for huge fees that other big clubs are after, but surely that is the anti-thesis of the DOF role? Dien is not a f****** DOF. He was from the old Arsenal board who understood/headhunted and worked closely with Wenger. He didn't suggest or buy ANYBODY...He had zero input in the youth setup. As I said, he may not have had the DoF title officially, but he certainly acted the part by all accounts. The club itself states it is looking for a DoF to replace Dein itself: http://www.arsenal.com/article.asp?thisNav=news&article=477261&lid=NewsHeadline&Title=Wenger+-+My+delay+over+Director+of+Football Was he hands on in the youth development side? Did he suggest players? Did he oversee fitness and training continuity? You're either changing the remit of the DOF or you don't really know what one is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Sacking Jol is hysterical madness. That's all. Depends really. Spurs have spent a lot of money and appear to be in a real hurry and will no doubt be spurred on (pun not intended) by Arsenal's transitional period to get there even quicker in the hope to usurp them. If they can appoint a better manager then they will be justified to do so, like Chelsea were when they appointed Mourinho. Jol has shown promise of course and has done well for them, but does he have it in him to do a Wenger; deliver success for a club who don't have the financial power or size as others do? Spurs have already spent more than they ever have done and still can't break into that top-four. Indeed they are closer to the likes of us, Everton, Blackburn et al than they are the top-four. If they do sack Jol and say appoint Ramos, it will be a bold decision and could backfire, but when as we've experienced ourselves, sometimes you can't ignore these kind of opportunities because they seldom come along. We could have spent that £15m on Shearer more wisely, on defence for example, but we couldn't allow Man Utd to sign him, we HAD to buy him. Maybe this is something Spurs HAVE to do. What I will say is that if they do ditch Jol they should reconsider the Director of Football position also and maybe ditch that too, or let the new man choose his own man. and sacking him a few weeks into the season too ? Again, depends. On the surface it would appear foolish. However if they have a possibility of appointing a significantly better manager, who will have to be snapped up soon or face losing out, sometimes these things have to be done. It all comes back to appointing the right man though. No good sacking Jol if you're going to appoint.... Souness. My own opinion is that Jol deserves at least the rest of the season and you never know, he could deliver Champions League football as it is that open I think, despite the pedigree of the top-four, in which case they would be a much more attractive proposition to any would be manager, you'd imagine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 UV - Ideally it would have been done in the Summer like Chelsea and Liverpool did with their current managers but you should definitely have someone in place ready to take over, certainly better than sacking someone to find out the only replacement is Souness. So what happens when the first manager you approach knocks you back and tells his mates in the press about it? The current manager is left in an untenable position, knowing he could be replaced at any time. The club would (rightly) be a laughing stock and a source of constant speculation. That's unlikely to happen, it's believed that players get tapped up all of the time but how often do you hear of someone blabbing to the press? The way you would go about it is to get a 3rd party to approach the agent of the manager and ask him if he would be interested in the job, if he is then move it from there but if not and for some reason he did go to the press then deny all knowledge like Madrid do when they get accused of it, after all it wasn't Madrid doing it directly. Sacking someone before looking for a replacement is retarded even if it is whats considered the right thing to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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