NJS

All very well until people start bidding for the unearthed "stars" like Bassong.

He's refusing once again to invest - probably not even the right word given the surplus from the summer. He could have accepted the alleged £180m from the yanks - less of a loss than he's made on the markets in the last year.

So basically the man makes a statement about taking the club forward and then proceeds to piss off and sell the only half-decent players we have remaining and we're supposed to keep quiet, bend over and take it because we're afraid of what the alternatives are. I want this poisonous piece of shit out of my club as soon as possible - I don't care whether that's because he feels unwelcome, nobody renews their STs or even relegation. People keep saying his "long term" plan of stability is great - all I see is a team in terminal decline even now. I'll ask a few questions in return to those asked - how could it get worse? what hope is there? when it gets to the 2nd and the squad is weaker will you then wake up?

It might stop this idea that he's "welcome back" for starters. So where do we all go from here then? Not as a deliberate campaign but ST renewals will show him I think. Think you missed my point. What I'm asking is if he can't go and he isn't welcome back then what happens now? he will either accept a reduced price or be forced to accept a reduced price due to relegation, because I can't see him having a change of heart for the simple reason seriously competing with the big boys again was never on his agenda to start with. IMO anyway. And if no-one makes an offer? Why would someone whose aim was to compete with the big boys not give him what he's asking for the club? They will at a realistic price. The alternative is we wait out the recession for a couple of years - probably relegated by then.

Agreed, how anyone can slate him on here is amazing. His work rate and skills are unbelievable. Other teams rate him obviously, otherwise they wouldn't be double marking him. Is it because Wise signed him? Could that be the underlying reason some don't like him? It can't be his footballing ability surely. It's not his fault that he beats 3 players and crosses the ball to where the strikers should be but are floating about somewhere else. My guess is that a top 4 side will snap him up sooner or later and he'll be very sorely missed by us. my problem is he need's to start providing goals we can't rely on other's, we should expect around 10 goals a season from him, robert and solano would get around the mark consistently apart from that he is a very good player, pity we ain't got the coaches to teach him how to shot How about putting some crosses, any crosses where the striker who he works with in training every day actually are? Solano and Robert were footballers of a lot more talent and ability. The idea of teaching a professional footballer how to shoot at his age and at this level makes me absolutely despair.

It might stop this idea that he's "welcome back" for starters. So where do we all go from here then? Not as a deliberate campaign but ST renewals will show him I think.

It might stop this idea that he's "welcome back" for starters. More likely convince him that the fans are too stupid to bother about what they think. That boat never left the port.

The best player we have wants to quit the club because he basically agrees with the sentiment behind the banner - I think the message is still relevant. What's this based on? The situation has pissed him off, he might not fully blame the "cockneys" though, i know i don't. That's what I meant by the sentiment - not the anti-cockney slogan but the desire to get rid of someone destroying the club.

It might stop this idea that he's "welcome back" for starters.

Exactly what happened in September at their place.

The best player we have wants to quit the club because he basically agrees with the sentiment behind the banner - I think the message is still relevant.

One thing I'd say is I don't get the idea about we should be privileged to be able to watch Ronaldo, Tevez or Ballack etc etc. I want Newcastle to win every game and all other clubs to have a team composed entirely of shit players - then I'd be happy.

As a small point it was 1-0 to Hull when the flag was paraded.

I don't believe in pissing contest in general but when it comes to football, people who put time, effort and money into actually supporting the team deserve credit for that - I have no problem with anyone anywhere calling themselves a fan and supporting the team in spirit but to pretend they are the same level of fan as those who go to games is ridiculous imo. Nowhere near as ridiculous as calling someone an "enemy of the club" because they disagree with you. It wasn't primarily because you disagreed with me - it was because you implied that the banner could be used by "enemies" which I think is bollocks and leading on from that I think people who support Ashley as fully as I get the impression you do are in my opinion just as much enemies of the club as nebulous media or fans of other clubs. How can anyone be labeled an enemy of the club because they support the present owner is strange to say the least. He may have upset Keegan he may have appointed Wise but he also probably saved the club from the financial Armageddon it was heading towards. Ashley may not be right for Newcastle (personally I think he could be given a chance) But if he is not who is ? While everyone carps on about how bad Ashley is, no one comes up with any tangible, realistic or specific alternative, just the usual abstract slavver - "someone who'll spend big" - "someone who'll back the manager" - "someone who we'll all love" etc etc. Who is this person ? Do we want Freddy and Doug back ? Can we name the Russian oligarch, Saudi prince or Texan oil man who we want to head up NUFC ? Or do we just continue to harp on about what went before and pile abuse on the only person who right now can ACTUALLY do something about NUFC. I know its "romantic" but I don't see Ashley as the club just because he owns it - the club is more than that. I don't know what the alternatives are - I'd like to see a combination of Shepherd, Ashley and Abramovitch but that's not going to happen. However I think expecting Ashley to do anything "good" from now on is naive and that's why I oppose his tenure.

I talked about this before - I think you're right but at the same time I think expecting fans to go back to being content with medocrity is asking too much. Maybe society has moved on as well but I think when you are paying £40/£600 to watch football instead of £3.50 the onus is more on the clubs to put more effort in - especially considering the other revenue streams. I had an argument with a Liverpool fan when we played them when Dalglis hhad just left and his view of Newcastle was of a club who'd had a couple of good years and would now fuck off back to where they belong just like Taylor's Watford did. The sad thing is I don't think we've went quite that far but it seems that a few on here accept the "natural order" of things too easily.

I don't believe in pissing contest in general but when it comes to football, people who put time, effort and money into actually supporting the team deserve credit for that - I have no problem with anyone anywhere calling themselves a fan and supporting the team in spirit but to pretend they are the same level of fan as those who go to games is ridiculous imo. Nowhere near as ridiculous as calling someone an "enemy of the club" because they disagree with you. It wasn't primarily because you disagreed with me - it was because you implied that the banner could be used by "enemies" which I think is bollocks and leading on from that I think people who support Ashley as fully as I get the impression you do are in my opinion just as much enemies of the club as nebulous media or fans of other clubs.

Only relevant if Ashley sells at a loss imo. Cant see him selling at a profit at the minute. Not a fair comparison anyway as Ashley's only been around 18 months. Its funny like but Ashley gave 80% of Newcastle fans exactly what they wanted, 1. He got rid of Shepherd 2. He (apparently) introduced some sense into the business operations that people complained about under Shepherd and 3. He brought King Kev back and gave SJP the opportunity to sing EIEIEIO one more time (which most would never have expected). We dont know why things fucked up over the summer but if it turns out Kev was playing silly buggers i'll feel sorry for him in a lot of ways. If you took a wishlist from 2005/6, am sure a lot of what went on up till sept 2nd was in line with what people wanted, apart from a missing 20m worth of investment and again we dont know why that didnt happen either. Maybe i'm being too circumspect. I agree up to a point with satisfying the wishlist but its at the cost of the most important thing imo - ambition. Of course its my interpretaion that he lacks ambition (or more precisely the willingness to fund it) which I accept.

I don't believe in pissing contest in general but when it comes to football, people who put time, effort and money into actually supporting the team deserve credit for that - I have no problem with anyone anywhere calling themselves a fan and supporting the team in spirit but to pretend they are the same level of fan as those who go to games is ridiculous imo.

Only relevant if Ashley sells at a loss imo.

As HTT has already said, the banner is pretty harmless, its not that offensive and singling out cockneys is not going to upset that many people. Most London fans probably laugh at the banner. Thats not the point, its makes us look small-minded, has further damaged our reputation in the press and doesnt address the reality of the financial crisis in its continued assertion that the current owner should leave. It's a good point about London fans - I there is lot on here who have taken offence in the same way that middle class guardianistas take some kind of imagined offence on behalf of Muslims on things like xmas lights. I don't think anyone has thought "Wow those Geordies are insular" - at worst I'd say it confirms a stereotype they already have which is to a large extent true. I don't see anything that any fans could do to combat that stereotype in the same way that Man U fans can't stop people saying they're cockneys or that Millwall fans are all nutters. Having said that I'm sure that people like Rob Lee, Les Ferdinand and Malcolm MacDonald could all point to how well they were welcomed and show that the message isn't as nasty as people are trying to imply - especially given Keith's post.

3. Mike Ashley, cannot find a buyer, makes a statement saying he will try to turn things round as Newcastle is still his responsibility and then refuses to spend any more money and in fact approaches the transfer window as a chance to make a profit regardless of damage to squad.

That would be you imo. And like most of your opinions, it's hysterical and melodramatic. People who have spent years supporting the club by going to the games and helping fellow fans are entitled to respect and have every right to air their views. People who have no clue about the history of the club, don't go to matches and even now still have their tongues stained with Ashley's shit deserve no respect.

That would be you imo.

That's fair enough but I'd just ask why he deserves a chance in your view? I'm sure Ranger or Lua Lua could say the same and they've played and done the business at at least reserve team level - maybe Xisco has to do that because based on his brief first team chances he's not ready.

In an ideal world I'd get rid of both and Shola too - subject to decent replacements of course.