NJS

I'm trying to move on but the current situation is tainted by those arguments. What Kinnear can do in January has the same context as the summer - the willingness of the owner to go for it. NE5 has said he is willing to forgive and forget if Ashley becomes a "proper" owner and I share that view to a degree but as I've also said, leaving Keegan completely out of it I'm not satisfied that Ashley's actions warrant any kind of trust/confidence - that's why a sale is still my preferred outcome.

It's mainly paranoia - my Dad died when he was 66 and I have a tendency which I fight an ongoing battle against to be a fat cunt. Undoubtedly - my point was that Hall and Keegan and the rest have given us a glimpse of a higher life and going back to "just" the things we all enjoy about following the club is disappointing to say the least - theres a line in Sit Down by James which sums it up - "If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor".

If it's Warnock we may have more of a chance than we did in the summer given their season so far.

The only reason he will spend money now is fear of relegation to protect his investment. If we were say 8th and Kinnear said give me some money as we've got a chance of UEFA he'd have got fuck all. It's a combination of both - he made the worst out of the tools he'd been left by under-investment. Keegan would have had the amazing plan of trying to score another goal.

Keegan gave his typical emotional response to a defeat - I'm sure he still thought it was possible - even if it was doing groundwork over 3 years to get somewhere near them for someone else. Aye OK. Keegan says it, you say he didn't mean it, & it gets passed off as "his typical emotional response". A bit like his walk out perhaps? Possibly yes - there is an element of blame which I've never denied - Keegan's "passion" is both a blessing and a curse but its what makes him inspiring most of the time. Let's say you're right and Keegan had doubts about any chance we had and he was called to see Ashley who did actually want to challenge as you suggested. What would be the obvious stumbling block to any compromise? - the level of investment. I think this where things went wrong as I guess that Ashley told Keegan he would back him to a reasonable degree (though all the statments suggested nothing stupid). This backing then disappeared over the summer.

Keegan gave his typical emotional response to a defeat - I'm sure he still thought it was possible - even if it was doing groundwork over 3 years to get somewhere near them for someone else.

I stand by that but as I said we wouldn't have finished there without investment in January which I didn't trust Ashley to do Last weekend in the second half - we're lucky a couple will be back for today.

Chelsea have no history and are in a huge amount of debt to Abramovitch - we were ahead of them 6 years ago "we are never going to compete" - defeatist claptrap.

Perhaps you should encourage them to support Chelsea if you want them to support a team that wins stuff. Ambition and intent is different to divine rightism - if we don't want to win things then we might as well give up now. Yet you yourself thought the other week that we would be flying high with Keegan still here, 5th you said wasn't it? Obviously that's not a big enough jump in one season for you. I said we'd have beem higher before the weaknesses in the squad told - like having all our CMs out at once for example.

As I grew up in the 70s and experiencing 74 at the age of 10 and knowing about 69 I had a view of Newcastle United as a club with a proud history that could on occasion have a sniff of winning something without being a top, top club. After relegation and a few years of shite as I stated going to the matches I'd accepted that the chances of that sniff had receded so concentrated on just having a good time at the matches where football almost became secondary - you could say an "Ashley" type viewpoint. John Hall and Kevin Keegan changed that attitude and stirred something in me and others that still burns - a desire to see us go beyond that attitude of the 70s and actually become a top club. Bobby Robson and yes Freddie Shepherd also shared that desire. Mike Ashley has never spoken about wanting any of that - he has never named a target or an aim beyond financial stability - it was left to Keegan again when he was appointed to talk about at least having a go at the top 4 or maybe winning a cup. What I see now is people arguing for going back to the defeatist attitude of the past where they talk about "enjoyment" and "stability" by which they mean not rattling any feathers or being scared of having a go because as far as I can see one club out of dozens who've tried have gone a bit tits up (Leeds). Even then they haven't folded - they could still come back but that's not good enough for the doom merchants who despite never having seen a "big" club fold for donkeys years seem to think we're heading there. I'm 44 and possibly having 20 or 30 years left I would like to see us win something and more importantly try and win something. That may sound selfish but I also want it to happen for people who are kids now so that the won't have memories based on trudging around Cambridge and Shrewsbury. I've said this before - given how much debt the top clubs have I'd rather the club was in debt (though manageable) and competing than being "stable" and seeing 10th as a good season.

Perhaps you should encourage them to support Chelsea if you want them to support a team that wins stuff. Ambition and intent is different to divine rightism - if we don't want to win things then we might as well give up now.

Sorry but that's crap - given the mediocrity of the squad, "steady progress" in the form of 2 or 3 slightly better players coming in to replace those leaving would have seen no tangible difference to season after season of mid-table averageness at best. I didn't want money wasted on overrated players as you state - I just wanted the money raised from STs and TV to be spent, possibly with some investment, on a few decent players with the aim of actually challenging. Would you be happy for your grandkids to be watching at team that has won nothing for 60 or 70 years?

I'm not averse to a better left back coming in, in fact I'd say it was second priority after midfielders but the whole point is the lack of cover. So replacing one left back with a midfielder as the only cover with another (probably better) full back with a midfielder as the only cover beggars belief. Of course the motivational "boost" is another issue he should be shot for. In many ways Kinnear is Ashley's perfect manager -a yes man who contradicts himself virtually every sentence which fits it perfectly with the owner's PR "style".

Viduka hasn't worked hard for at least 5 years now. Quite frankly he's a parasite. I was embarrassed we signed him tbh. You have to wonder what the hell we were doing signign Boro's scraps. Humiliating. What were you doing when you weren't watching any of our games last year out of interest?

The only way he could have done worse is to have been hammered at Chelsea and beaten at Boro - defeats and draws against "rivals" is relegation form - simple as that.

Theres a difference beween the mandate Kinner came in on (6 games/weeks) and an end of season deal. A decent manager saved us last year.

So if by some miracle the club was sold Man City style (ie seemingly in hours) we'd have to stick with Kinnear would we? No - so why can't we get a decent manager in anyway.

That's our point though - he hasn't - the results since he took over represent relegation form as well as lost points against teams who were our best chance of getting points against - better teams remain to be played. Yeah but if he wasn't here, and we still had Hughton. We probably wouldn't of got them points and could of been in even more danger, as we lost 2 home games to Blackburn/Hull, and even the CC against Spurs. Not saying Hughton in - plenty of other managers - some of whom would have a clue - could do better.

That's our point though - he hasn't - the results since he took over represent relegation form as well as lost points against teams who were our best chance of getting points against - better teams remain to be played.

I made the same point about him being told that Andy Johnson is a cheating cunt.

It's a pace/strength combo he struggles against - I raised the concern after Cole at West Ham but felt he had improved and "got over it". The first goal proved he's still vulnerable to it.

Kinnear played as much a part in the result as the lack of squad depth, possibly more. Within the game is his fault - the blame for the squad and the fact that the tit has the job lies elsewhere with another idiot.

Injuries are part of football - its how you deal with them in the game and by having a squad that can cope that determines success - we're lacking in both.

Does he have a recent track record tha inspires? Has he achieved any decent results in 11 games apart from Villa and Chelsea (with the help of a lot of luck) Has he improved the performances by an appreciable amount? Has he made decisions which have cost us games? Given the answers to these questions, why should we not demand he goes?

I thought he was reacting to the abuse he got for missing the chance just before the goal.