M4

Well, obviously it wasn't about making a successfully working environment anymore, but I'm suggesting not guaranteeing that it would be an unsuccessful one. I simply don't see it as too much to ask for him to put up more of a fight (or putting up with a little more shit) and ensuring the season wouldn't end in disaster especially given the circumstances of his return.

Of course he was "technically", "legally" right but that doesn't make the way he just packed it in again (and knowing how much damage it would cause the club and team) any less annoying. Knowing his temperament he probably also played a part in manoeuvring himself into a position where he felt he had no alternative.

As much as you find it moronic to hold any of this against him, I find it weird to not consider his actions at least a little disappointing. That's just the basis of the opinion divide.

What was the bigger picture ?

The very immediate future of the club from a sporting perspective. So many people keep saying that the months that followed and our relegation proved how right Keegan was. Well I suggest that also means he quit and knowingly left the club in the hands of these incapable people.

It is easy to say, he should have backed down for the "greater good" or the fans on "moral" reasons like the love for the club. It's pretty obvious from the verdict that this wasn't a possibility any more. The situation in getting bossed around by numpties was unbearable by then. As romantic as it sounds of Keegan backing down for the love of the club for all to live on happy afterwards, I don't think this was on anymore and I find it pretty moronic to hold it against Keegan.

Well that sums up nicely the points we are disagreeing over. There's not much more to say I'm afraid.

Ah, it's moral now. It was about principles and I can't see anything wrong in a manager having the principles to be allowed to the job in a way it is suited to him which was fundamental to him accepting the job.

 

He's also holding the moral high ground in regards to refusing to sign players to do favours to dodgy agents though.

I think words morals/values/principles are easily interchangeable in this circumstance. And in essence I agree with what you are saying (they are now even proven facts), problem is how did taking what he saw as the high road help us the fans? Who he was supposedly looking out for, he claims?

As I said I find his principles very strange, misplaced maybe even selective. Just totally oblivious to the bigger picture.

The shot? He probably would have saved and it didn't move that much from hitting the beach ball, but the way the beach ball pinged right off really put him off / freaked him out.

Great footage of the beach ball goal just then on Sky, the thing literally creeps out onto the 6 yard line from Reina's blind spot and as that very Sunderland attack was developing. Talk about a perfect sequence of events to make it happen.

Also, Gray was using the pause and arrows to indicate where the ball was going

he’s always tried to do his best for us

I can't really believe that is true for the latest set of events. Even if he truly still believes this then, as said many times, his morals/values are pretty misplaced which is not acceptable either.

I thought Guivarc'h scored on his debut?

Pretty sure the Liverpool game was indeed his debut.

Can remember I thought it was great news when we signed him, was so pleased

Beckham has to be in the squad for the WC.

He's been good as this bit part player. Better than he was in the last few years as captain... he was consistently poor and cost us goals.

Over the past year or so I'd say he should go to the World Cup... as long he never gets anywhere near to taking a penalty.

Arshavin's celebration gets on my tits

 

This. Fucking awful celebration.

Thirded. Funny seeing him shush the crowd when at Arsenal's new library.

Really not too keen on this new trend on non celebrations. All Chelsea players seem guilty of this. Got to love someone like Rooney with the way he celebrates his goals.

Aye.  You could sellotape Peter Crouch photos all over his face and he'd still look areet.

What the hell?!

quote of the day.

He (Owen) was really crap at Euro 2004, there certainly can be no denying that.

Don't know about Heskey... in the England system he just seems to work.

But it's a tricky one. Would certainly consider Owen as back up for sure.

And completely shit in all of them. But hey, 7 years past his prime lets stick him in there, for a laugh.

Nope.

I remember before Euro '96 the media were trying to push Les Ferdinand forward to replace Shearer who hadn't scored in yonks for England. He went on to take the tournament by storm.

 

Quite a difference between how good Shearer was then though and Owen now.

Indeed, while on his England drought he was still scoring 30+ for Blackburn

Nowhere near as bad as Beckham has been in the majors. Utterly, utterly wank in each tournament.

Beckham was an utter disgrace at Euro 2004 during the whole thing. Too often overlooked. Hated him in that tournament. Cost us goals by fucking up and by not bothering defending.

Aye. Barring '98 in a couple of games he was normally absolutely horrific for England in the major tournaments. (I am aware his goal against Brazil was in the quarter final of the World Cup)

 

Said it before on here, but it's ignored. His reputation is an absolute f***ing sham.

I recall this discussion on here before. But my personal feeling is that he was very decent at E2000 and WC2002 and scoring, then really poor at E2004 and WC2006 and not scoring!

Always loved mr Palermo, proper centre fwd etc etc. Seemed quite an epic game that for Argentina in that rain. Delighted that he got himself the winning goal, I guess if they're really playing shit, we want them there.

We improved in the league the following season when Robert left. We improved the following year on Dyer leaving. We did get relegated when Milner left though

Thinking about it, quite amazing/absurd that we managed to finish 7th in 05/06.

I'd love him at Arsenal. If he wasn't such a *every expletive under the sun*

You'd soon get over that.

Really kind of miss him thinking about it. Loved how in early 01-02 season he would often just pick the ball up before the midway line and just start running past everyone like a mental case with a ball. His finishing was poor at first but just got better and better.

I'd rather have him than Anelka and Kalou, any of Man U's strikers bar Rooney, any of Arsenal's bar Robin VP and all but Torres at Liverpool

 

easily good enough for the top 4, he got us there twice and will help Man City achieve the same come May

Actually... true, good point and agreed. Probably just more of a case that they won't to touch him with a barge pole.

Agreed NUT.

He's very much a "our cunt" type of player. When he plays for your team you'll love him. He was easily the best player at the club that season he eventually got shipped off to Celtic. Can never doubt his effort out on the pitch.

The NUFC team of 01-04 really was perfect for him. There isn't really a team like that these days, he's stuck in between not good enough for the "top four" and above playing for the rest. Or maybe Man City is just what he needs.

Did you know SBR got money out of the club through compensation?  Did he care about the short term sporting future of the club or its fans in doing that?  Nope, he was looking out for number one instead huh?

Scenarios couldn't be more different: Bobby straight up got the sack and got kicked out though. He also didn't just come back few months earlier.

Aye. It would have got better eventually 

Obviously not. But I'm sure Keegan knew how much damage he was doing by packing it in, it was probably part of the point too... but it's cutting off his nose to spite his face. In the end only real losers are us the fans.

For the 574757489th time, Keegan is a man of honour and principle - he COULD quite easily have said NOTHING and remained at the club and seen his contract out which in total was worth £13 million.

Well I certainly question this short sighted honour and principle. Misplaced righteousness it might be with Keegan. I guess he was only looking out for number one instead of the short term sporting future of the club and its fans. I'd argue stronger principles might have seen him fight our corner given that he knew first hand how ridiculous the regime was being.

good riddons

Definitely Lee.

Aye, "found out" by the best strikers in the world then.

Terry has been such a rock. Pretty amazing.

FT