Wullie

Who? Villa? Yeah.

the debt is owed to the person who owns the club as opposed to previously when the debt was owed to banks etc. one is a lot more risky than the other. Indeed, so why is Ashley treating it as the opposite? Because it's him who's shelled out the £100m, obviously!! He is £100m down on where he was before he made the loan, that money's not come from some faceless bank it's come out of his own pocket, so whilst it's a good deal for the club, it's a bad deal for him personally, very bad in fact. I can't believe the bloke's getting shit for giving us £100m!! Fuck's sake some people are ungrateful!! Remind me never to lend any of you lot any money, you'd probably beat the shit out of me and steal my wallet immediately afterwards! He bought the club man, if he really thought he could just coin it in from the off, he's clearly lost his marbles. He was always going to have to invest. Lerner owes banks - high risk and he's still spending. Ashley doesn't owe anyone but himself and still prefers to risk our survival. To borrow your analogy, if I buy a house in a state of disrepair then when I walk in, the roof falls on my head, it's my own fault for not bothering my arse to check how bad it was first.

How will they afford to make the repayments, indi? I genuinely don't understand (unless of course they quality for the CL).

the debt is owed to the person who owns the club as opposed to previously when the debt was owed to banks etc. one is a lot more risky than the other. Indeed, so why is Ashley treating it as the opposite?

Not paying what debt? I'm comfortable not giving Mike Ashley his money back yet, yes. I don't expect his meagre £600m has him buying the Asda SmartPrice stuff just yet. We won't agree because we have differing views of the squad. You think Ashley is going to get his chequebook out and that we'll stay up, I think he won't and we'll go down. We'll see in May - I simply can't get my head round the amount of people with their heads in the sand. One look at the form guide and the fixture list (available at all good paying fanzine websites) should show you that relegation is more likely than not at this moment in time. From that point of view, unless he can find a top class manager happy to be let around by the hand by Dennis Wise (and a witch doctor who can fix up Oba and Beye right this second), yes, I'd rather take the risk of strengthening and I don't give two fucks if Ashley has to foot the bill because as owner, it'll be his fault and his responsibility. Fair enough. Although if we sign a couple of decent players this window (as has been hinted) will it chage your view at all? Not really. It's January 25th, signings are not looking likely and we're 2 points off 20th with a very difficult run-in. If we stay up I'm not going to praise him for saving us when he's the one who got us into this bother in the first place. If he pushes on in the summer with a real manager and funds, I might think about putting up with him even if I don't trust him as far as I could throw him. Sorry Wullie, but that's one of the most short sighted, narrow minded things I've ever read on here. He is, man. Not the only one but most certainly the main culprit - like Shepherd, the man pulling the strings has to take the blame. I know you like to defend him but when will you give up absolving him of blame? When we're lining up at Blackpool next season? I've never absolved him of blame, he's made some monumental fuck ups. Well then we agree. His monumental fuck ups have led us to where to we are now. If you think he has led us there you're being incredibly naive. We were well on the way before he even got involved. That's like blaming Ken Bates for Leeds being in League 1. I don't agree, I think he's done the majority of the damage and accelerated the slide (and it was already a slide, although we had finished 7th a year earlier, so by no means an unstoppable one). He's been here the same time as Lerner has at Villa and they were in a very similar state. We were in a horrendous state financially but he paid most of that off as soon as he got here so what else is there to look at in terms of what has done the damage? Aye he's paid it off which is something Lerner didn't have to do at Villa, amazing you can't see the difference between the state of the two clubs. All due to a few years of horrendus financial mismanagement. The fact is the rot set in long before Ashley arrived. Since Ashley came in we've also had Mort, Keegan & Llambias doing the day to day running of the club and until we know the full facts the three of them are potentially just as culpable as he is. Was having to pay the debts off due to financial mismanagement or due to Ashley not doing his homework? I accept that a certain amount of the debts had to be paid with his own money because we were operating at a loss but: a) the majority seems to have been the stadium loan, which is pure and simply Ashley not doing due diligence. That's his fault. and b) did he have to pay all the debts off in one whack? Couldn't he have just paid the agreed repayments rather than paying them all off, which is what Lerner started doing despite their very similar debts? I don't know the answer to that, you should know better than me. Re: the people at the top, Ashley hired them, so he has to carry the can.

What a lush lay-off from Torres for Gerrard's goal.

Not paying what debt? I'm comfortable not giving Mike Ashley his money back yet, yes. I don't expect his meagre £600m has him buying the Asda SmartPrice stuff just yet. We won't agree because we have differing views of the squad. You think Ashley is going to get his chequebook out and that we'll stay up, I think he won't and we'll go down. We'll see in May - I simply can't get my head round the amount of people with their heads in the sand. One look at the form guide and the fixture list (available at all good paying fanzine websites) should show you that relegation is more likely than not at this moment in time. From that point of view, unless he can find a top class manager happy to be let around by the hand by Dennis Wise (and a witch doctor who can fix up Oba and Beye right this second), yes, I'd rather take the risk of strengthening and I don't give two fucks if Ashley has to foot the bill because as owner, it'll be his fault and his responsibility. Fair enough. Although if we sign a couple of decent players this window (as has been hinted) will it chage your view at all? Not really. It's January 25th, signings are not looking likely and we're 2 points off 20th with a very difficult run-in. If we stay up I'm not going to praise him for saving us when he's the one who got us into this bother in the first place. If he pushes on in the summer with a real manager and funds, I might think about putting up with him even if I don't trust him as far as I could throw him. Sorry Wullie, but that's one of the most short sighted, narrow minded things I've ever read on here. He is, man. Not the only one but most certainly the main culprit - like Shepherd, the man pulling the strings has to take the blame. I know you like to defend him but when will you give up absolving him of blame? When we're lining up at Blackpool next season? I've never absolved him of blame, he's made some monumental fuck ups. Well then we agree. His monumental fuck ups have led us to where to we are now. If you think he has led us there you're being incredibly naive. We were well on the way before he even got involved. That's like blaming Ken Bates for Leeds being in League 1. I don't agree, I think he's done the majority of the damage and accelerated the slide (and it was already a slide, although we had finished 7th a year earlier, so by no means an unstoppable one). He's been here the same time as Lerner has at Villa and they were in a very similar state. We were in a horrendous state financially but he paid most of that off as soon as he got here so what else is there to look at in terms of what has done the damage?

Not paying what debt? I'm comfortable not giving Mike Ashley his money back yet, yes. I don't expect his meagre £600m has him buying the Asda SmartPrice stuff just yet. We won't agree because we have differing views of the squad. You think Ashley is going to get his chequebook out and that we'll stay up, I think he won't and we'll go down. We'll see in May - I simply can't get my head round the amount of people with their heads in the sand. One look at the form guide and the fixture list (available at all good paying fanzine websites) should show you that relegation is more likely than not at this moment in time. From that point of view, unless he can find a top class manager happy to be let around by the hand by Dennis Wise (and a witch doctor who can fix up Oba and Beye right this second), yes, I'd rather take the risk of strengthening and I don't give two fucks if Ashley has to foot the bill because as owner, it'll be his fault and his responsibility. Fair enough. Although if we sign a couple of decent players this window (as has been hinted) will it chage your view at all? Not really. It's January 25th, signings are not looking likely and we're 2 points off 20th with a very difficult run-in. If we stay up I'm not going to praise him for saving us when he's the one who got us into this bother in the first place. If he pushes on in the summer with a real manager and funds, I might think about putting up with him even if I don't trust him as far as I could throw him. Sorry Wullie, but that's one of the most short sighted, narrow minded things I've ever read on here. He is, man. Not the only one but most certainly the main culprit - like Shepherd, the man pulling the strings has to take the blame. I know you like to defend him but when will you give up absolving him of blame? When we're lining up at Blackpool next season? I've never absolved him of blame, he's made some monumental fuck ups. Well then we agree. His monumental fuck ups have led us to where to we are now. Yep, should never of appointed Keegan in the first place - stupid mistake. I agree in terms of the ludicrous plan he had for the club. If he hadn't we'd probably have gone down last year of course.

Not paying what debt? I'm comfortable not giving Mike Ashley his money back yet, yes. I don't expect his meagre £600m has him buying the Asda SmartPrice stuff just yet. We won't agree because we have differing views of the squad. You think Ashley is going to get his chequebook out and that we'll stay up, I think he won't and we'll go down. We'll see in May - I simply can't get my head round the amount of people with their heads in the sand. One look at the form guide and the fixture list (available at all good paying fanzine websites) should show you that relegation is more likely than not at this moment in time. From that point of view, unless he can find a top class manager happy to be let around by the hand by Dennis Wise (and a witch doctor who can fix up Oba and Beye right this second), yes, I'd rather take the risk of strengthening and I don't give two fucks if Ashley has to foot the bill because as owner, it'll be his fault and his responsibility. Fair enough. Although if we sign a couple of decent players this window (as has been hinted) will it chage your view at all? Not really. It's January 25th, signings are not looking likely and we're 2 points off 20th with a very difficult run-in. If we stay up I'm not going to praise him for saving us when he's the one who got us into this bother in the first place. If he pushes on in the summer with a real manager and funds, I might think about putting up with him even if I don't trust him as far as I could throw him. And you're perfectly entitled to that opinion. So if he pays off the debt, and saves us from relegation and adminastration and appoints a good manager and invests a decent amount in the summer you'd "put up with him"? Fair enough. He should have done that two years ago when he arrived. Instead he's led us to the brink of relegation. I'm not about to start rimming him for getting us back to square one. I don't trust him and in an ideal world, he'd have nothing whatsoever to do with NUFC.

Not paying what debt? I'm comfortable not giving Mike Ashley his money back yet, yes. I don't expect his meagre £600m has him buying the Asda SmartPrice stuff just yet. We won't agree because we have differing views of the squad. You think Ashley is going to get his chequebook out and that we'll stay up, I think he won't and we'll go down. We'll see in May - I simply can't get my head round the amount of people with their heads in the sand. One look at the form guide and the fixture list (available at all good paying fanzine websites) should show you that relegation is more likely than not at this moment in time. From that point of view, unless he can find a top class manager happy to be let around by the hand by Dennis Wise (and a witch doctor who can fix up Oba and Beye right this second), yes, I'd rather take the risk of strengthening and I don't give two fucks if Ashley has to foot the bill because as owner, it'll be his fault and his responsibility. Fair enough. Although if we sign a couple of decent players this window (as has been hinted) will it chage your view at all? Not really. It's January 25th, signings are not looking likely and we're 2 points off 20th with a very difficult run-in. If we stay up I'm not going to praise him for saving us when he's the one who got us into this bother in the first place. If he pushes on in the summer with a real manager and funds, I might think about putting up with him even if I don't trust him as far as I could throw him. Sorry Wullie, but that's one of the most short sighted, narrow minded things I've ever read on here. He is, man. Not the only one but most certainly the main culprit - like Shepherd, the man pulling the strings has to take the blame. I know you like to defend him but when will you give up absolving him of blame? When we're lining up at Blackpool next season? I've never absolved him of blame, he's made some monumental fuck ups. Well then we agree. His monumental fuck ups have led us to where to we are now.

Not paying what debt? I'm comfortable not giving Mike Ashley his money back yet, yes. I don't expect his meagre £600m has him buying the Asda SmartPrice stuff just yet. We won't agree because we have differing views of the squad. You think Ashley is going to get his chequebook out and that we'll stay up, I think he won't and we'll go down. We'll see in May - I simply can't get my head round the amount of people with their heads in the sand. One look at the form guide and the fixture list (available at all good paying fanzine websites) should show you that relegation is more likely than not at this moment in time. From that point of view, unless he can find a top class manager happy to be let around by the hand by Dennis Wise (and a witch doctor who can fix up Oba and Beye right this second), yes, I'd rather take the risk of strengthening and I don't give two fucks if Ashley has to foot the bill because as owner, it'll be his fault and his responsibility. Fair enough. Although if we sign a couple of decent players this window (as has been hinted) will it chage your view at all? Not really. It's January 25th, signings are not looking likely and we're 2 points off 20th with a very difficult run-in. If we stay up I'm not going to praise him for saving us when he's the one who got us into this bother in the first place. If he pushes on in the summer with a real manager and funds, I might think about putting up with him even if I don't trust him as far as I could throw him. Sorry Wullie, but that's one of the most short sighted, narrow minded things I've ever read on here. He is, man. Not the only one but most certainly the main culprit - like Shepherd, the man pulling the strings has to take the blame. I know you like to defend him but when will you give up absolving him of blame? When we're lining up at Blackpool next season?

Not paying what debt? I'm comfortable not giving Mike Ashley his money back yet, yes. I don't expect his meagre £600m has him buying the Asda SmartPrice stuff just yet. We won't agree because we have differing views of the squad. You think Ashley is going to get his chequebook out and that we'll stay up, I think he won't and we'll go down. We'll see in May - I simply can't get my head round the amount of people with their heads in the sand. One look at the form guide and the fixture list (available at all good paying fanzine websites) should show you that relegation is more likely than not at this moment in time. From that point of view, unless he can find a top class manager happy to be let around by the hand by Dennis Wise (and a witch doctor who can fix up Oba and Beye right this second), yes, I'd rather take the risk of strengthening and I don't give two fucks if Ashley has to foot the bill because as owner, it'll be his fault and his responsibility. Fair enough. Although if we sign a couple of decent players this window (as has been hinted) will it chage your view at all? Not really. It's January 25th, signings are not looking likely and we're 2 points off 20th with a very difficult run-in. If we stay up I'm not going to praise him for saving us when he's the one who got us into this bother in the first place. If he pushes on in the summer with a real manager and funds, I might think about putting up with him even if I don't trust him as far as I could throw him.

Not paying what debt? I'm comfortable not giving Mike Ashley his money back yet, yes. I don't expect his meagre £600m has him buying the Asda SmartPrice stuff just yet. We won't agree because we have differing views of the squad. You think Ashley is going to get his chequebook out and that we'll stay up, I think he won't and we'll go down. We'll see in May - I simply can't get my head round the amount of people with their heads in the sand. One look at the form guide and the fixture list (available at all good paying fanzine websites) should show you that relegation is more likely than not at this moment in time. From that point of view, unless he can find a top class manager happy to be let around by the hand by Dennis Wise (and a witch doctor who can fix up Oba and Beye right this second), yes, I'd rather take the risk of strengthening and I don't give two fucks if Ashley has to foot the bill because as owner, it'll be his fault and his responsibility.

Its easier for Lerner to invest as well as he isnt being strangled by the wage bill, he can afford to take more gambles with finances as the wage ratio isnt too high and taking up too much revenue. Basically he can afford to speculate to accumalte, if we were to do the same the success would have to be pretty instantaneuos, bascially CL qualification, we'd also be taking up more of the revenue with the excessive wages, if it werent to wrok out then Ashley would be having to finance the falilure again and again. If he invested as heavily as he has and Martin O'neil didnt get anywhere then he'd curb the spending, its also worth noting that Carew aside he isnt funding the transfers to overpaid stars but young up and coming stars on lower wages, meaning theres the safety net of resale and low wages. Theres no doubt in my mind that Ashley is willing to speculate to accumlate - but not in these conditions and not unchecked. I don't even know where to start on what's wrong with that post. Give it a go. This shit about the wages is absolute drivel - Ashley has sanctioned just as many wastes of space on massive wedge as Shepherd left us with for a start so that's not a get-out-of-jail-free card - for every Damien Duff, there's an Alan Smith. Some of them came in for nowt anyway so you expect to pay more in wages. What we're paying in wages would not touch the £100m that Villa have spent in transfers alone on top of the wages they'll be giving out. How much do you think players like Reo-Coker, Davies, Milner, Cuellar, L. Young, Shorey will be taking home? At a combined cost of nearly £50m, it won't be peanuts I assure you. Lerner has slashed ticket prices at 42000 Villa Park while we continue to pay top whack for more than that at SJP meaning our matchday income is also higher than theirs (now with three years cash, even moreso in the short term). What exactly gives you 100% certainty that Ashley is willing to spend money? I'm yet to see one thing that suggests that. Finally, how did your post answer my question? Will Villa's books not begin to show a massive loss over the next couple of years due to amortisation of a large number of expensive players?

We were fucking desperate for a central midfielder worthy of the name. I put faith in the club because I thought they'd come through and they didn't. If you'd asked me whether Barton (in jail at the time)/Butt/Guthrie/Geremi was a good enough central midfield selection for the entire season, I'd have thought you were a fucking lunatic.

Our accounts show that we have a £100 million loan on hte books that we might have to repay, I would have thought that it will have to be paid off at some stage or written off. Either way it is technically debt as long as it's on the books although Ashley owes Ashley. Even if it isn't costing anything we can't spend it twice, it's gone. But if it's debt that we don't have to pay off, it's not really debt is it - not in terms of how the club operates day-to-day. If Ashley is going to potentially devastate the club by taking us down because he's worried about his own loan, he's an even bigger cunt that I thought he was - fucking stupid as well if he thinks he'll get it back in the Championship. Of course it's still debt, it still has to be paid back even if it's when the club is sold, as will any debt have to be paid back that you're suggesting he adds to it. I'm not suggesting he adds to it, unless the season ticket money has already been spent on something else. The season ticket money will go into running the club this season, unless you're talking about the 3 year money which will obviously be spread over 3 years, unless you think he should spend it all up front now like Shepherd did with the sponsorship money and worry about the drop in income next season. All up front? No. Secure our status as a Premiership club? Yes. Unless you think his losses will be less should we drop into the Championship. What happens if he tried to "secure our status" and we still go down whilst not paying the debt? Two things which would of changed everything, if Jonas was signed for £12m and Milner was sold for what he was worth. Thats how flimsy this all is. Why ever bother spending anything on players in that case? Why not just get 11 lads from the Sunday league and say "it's in case we go down?" I don't understand what your last statement has to do with anything. Jonas would not have been signed if he'd cost £12m for a start. Im not sure what to say to all this. For some reason, at the beggining of the season this squad was good enough for a top 8 finsih with Keeganin charge, but now its not good enough to stay in the prem? Spot the gap in logic. Assuming Ashley is willing to spend, what if he thinks this squad is good enough to stay up? Its certaily what the majority of us thought in August, I still think it now. Typical throw the money at the problem attitude. We'll spend this Jan, but it wont help a huge deal, we wont all of a sudden shoot up the table, what we need more desperately than signings is a good manager. Which we won't get. Are you comfortable with us not strengthening and being relegated?

Its easier for Lerner to invest as well as he isnt being strangled by the wage bill, he can afford to take more gambles with finances as the wage ratio isnt too high and taking up too much revenue. Basically he can afford to speculate to accumalte, if we were to do the same the success would have to be pretty instantaneuos, bascially CL qualification, we'd also be taking up more of the revenue with the excessive wages, if it werent to wrok out then Ashley would be having to finance the falilure again and again. If he invested as heavily as he has and Martin O'neil didnt get anywhere then he'd curb the spending, its also worth noting that Carew aside he isnt funding the transfers to overpaid stars but young up and coming stars on lower wages, meaning theres the safety net of resale and low wages. Theres no doubt in my mind that Ashley is willing to speculate to accumlate - but not in these conditions and not unchecked. I don't even know where to start on what's wrong with that post.

Our accounts show that we have a £100 million loan on hte books that we might have to repay, I would have thought that it will have to be paid off at some stage or written off. Either way it is technically debt as long as it's on the books although Ashley owes Ashley. Even if it isn't costing anything we can't spend it twice, it's gone. But if it's debt that we don't have to pay off, it's not really debt is it - not in terms of how the club operates day-to-day. If Ashley is going to potentially devastate the club by taking us down because he's worried about his own loan, he's an even bigger cunt that I thought he was - fucking stupid as well if he thinks he'll get it back in the Championship. Of course it's still debt, it still has to be paid back even if it's when the club is sold, as will any debt have to be paid back that you're suggesting he adds to it. I'm not suggesting he adds to it, unless the season ticket money has already been spent on something else. The season ticket money will go into running the club this season, unless you're talking about the 3 year money which will obviously be spread over 3 years, unless you think he should spend it all up front now like Shepherd did with the sponsorship money and worry about the drop in income next season. All up front? No. Secure our status as a Premiership club? Yes. Unless you think his losses will be less should we drop into the Championship. What happens if he tried to "secure our status" and we still go down whilst not paying the debt? Two things which would of changed everything, if Jonas was signed for £12m and Milner was sold for what he was worth. Thats how flimsy this all is. Why ever bother spending anything on players in that case? Why not just get 11 lads from the Sunday league and say "it's in case we go down?" I don't understand what your last statement has to do with anything. Jonas would not have been signed if he'd cost £12m for a start.

Our accounts show that we have a £100 million loan on hte books that we might have to repay, I would have thought that it will have to be paid off at some stage or written off. Either way it is technically debt as long as it's on the books although Ashley owes Ashley. Even if it isn't costing anything we can't spend it twice, it's gone. But if it's debt that we don't have to pay off, it's not really debt is it - not in terms of how the club operates day-to-day. If Ashley is going to potentially devastate the club by taking us down because he's worried about his own loan, he's an even bigger cunt that I thought he was - fucking stupid as well if he thinks he'll get it back in the Championship. Of course it's still debt, it still has to be paid back even if it's when the club is sold, as will any debt have to be paid back that you're suggesting he adds to it. I'm not suggesting he adds to it, unless the season ticket money has already been spent on something else. The season ticket money will go into running the club this season, unless you're talking about the 3 year money which will obviously be spread over 3 years, unless you think he should spend it all up front now like Shepherd did with the sponsorship money and worry about the drop in income next season. All up front? No. Secure our status as a Premiership club? Yes. Unless you think his losses will be less should we drop into the Championship. How much of it do you think he should be looking to invest now then? I think an investment of £15-£20m in the positions we are desperately lacking in wouldn't be unreasonable.

While it's on the books we do have to pay off, it's up to him if he starts taking it back or not and up until the end of the last financial year he hadn't taken a penny back, he'd actually put in a further £10 million. Like I said, we can't spend it twice. I don't see how or why taking us down would secure his loan and I doubt he'd think that. I think we'll find out exactly what relegation does to his money.

Our accounts show that we have a £100 million loan on hte books that we might have to repay, I would have thought that it will have to be paid off at some stage or written off. Either way it is technically debt as long as it's on the books although Ashley owes Ashley. Even if it isn't costing anything we can't spend it twice, it's gone. But if it's debt that we don't have to pay off, it's not really debt is it - not in terms of how the club operates day-to-day. If Ashley is going to potentially devastate the club by taking us down because he's worried about his own loan, he's an even bigger cunt that I thought he was - fucking stupid as well if he thinks he'll get it back in the Championship. Of course it's still debt, it still has to be paid back even if it's when the club is sold, as will any debt have to be paid back that you're suggesting he adds to it. I'm not suggesting he adds to it, unless the season ticket money has already been spent on something else. The season ticket money will go into running the club this season, unless you're talking about the 3 year money which will obviously be spread over 3 years, unless you think he should spend it all up front now like Shepherd did with the sponsorship money and worry about the drop in income next season. All up front? No. Secure our status as a Premiership club? Yes. Unless you think his losses will be less should we drop into the Championship.

Our accounts show that we have a £100 million loan on hte books that we might have to repay, I would have thought that it will have to be paid off at some stage or written off. Either way it is technically debt as long as it's on the books although Ashley owes Ashley. Even if it isn't costing anything we can't spend it twice, it's gone. But if it's debt that we don't have to pay off, it's not really debt is it - not in terms of how the club operates day-to-day. If Ashley is going to potentially devastate the club by taking us down because he's worried about his own loan, he's an even bigger cunt that I thought he was - fucking stupid as well if he thinks he'll get it back in the Championship. Of course it's still debt, it still has to be paid back even if it's when the club is sold, as will any debt have to be paid back that you're suggesting he adds to it. I'm not suggesting he adds to it, unless the season ticket money has already been spent on something else.

Would we not expect Villa's next few accounts show a massive loss because of amortisation? I find it odd that their losses are so small when Lerner's spent so much (around £100m) on players who will now be depreciating in value.

Our accounts show that we have a £100 million loan on hte books that we might have to repay, I would have thought that it will have to be paid off at some stage or written off. Either way it is technically debt as long as it's on the books although Ashley owes Ashley. Even if it isn't costing anything we can't spend it twice, it's gone. But if it's debt that we don't have to pay off, it's not really debt is it - not in terms of how the club operates day-to-day. If Ashley is going to potentially devastate the club by taking us down because he's worried about his own loan, he's an even bigger cunt that I thought he was - fucking stupid as well if he thinks he'll get it back in the Championship.

They've been bought out the same way as we were, unlike the other two mentioned who have been bought by actually looading the club with debt. In effect Man U and Liverpool bought themselves, if that makes sense. Villa have a lot less debt and are in a much healthier position on the pitch than we are. How do they have less debt?