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Fuck me, I honestly thought this was an elaborate group wind up.

Several negative replies in 4 minutes including this one: Reported ffs :lol: Reported, hot shit You serious that he's been banned for that post? More must have happened afterwards, surely.

Both of them need to play next to a box-to-box player, really. Especially Cabaye.

Balance. It should be simple. Realise you're only a small part of a big world. It's not as though Sammy Ameobi is picking up a reputation for never turning up at hospitals, leading kids' christmas conga lines, embarrassing himself for our amusement on twitter etc...

Appalling and amazing.

Fair enough, I think Best and Obertan have both had enough games to justify starting or not. I would rather see both Ben Arfa and Vuckic get a run of games so that we can see what they can or can't do for us. If they get a good run of games and are found to be worse than those who they replaced then I'd be happy to see them brought back. My frustration with the players who are not performing is that I think we have better players who are not getting games; we'll never know one way or the other until they get games. Agreed, it's just that I'd probably whack them all in the same team together in the circumstances (Obertan being the odd one out).

Vuckic is nothing like Bellamy and never will be, I'd liken him more to a young Rooney but not as good. He hasn't scored many goals for us so far but he does get them and he's got a very good left foot. How is discussing who plays alongside Ba an attempt to accommodate idiocy? No, not saying he's like Bellamy, just trying to point out that by target man I'm not just talking about bloody great lumps like Vinny Jones. I mean the ones who are the main focus of both the defenders and attackers during a game, the ones whose movement drag people out of position or are naturally capable of turning a half-chance pass into a goal. Vuckic doesn't seem to be one of those people, yet, especially given who he's surrounded by. I agree about Rooney, by the way, and it took him a good while to settle into the way Ferguson chose to use him. Accommodating idiocy because the basis of the discussion is wrong. Who cares whether Vuckic and Ba would do better than Best and Ba when they're both supplied by a 442 with Obertan in it? I don't think either would thrive. Squeezing an extra 5% out isn't worth the effort if it's 5% of fuck all. I'd rather talk about how Vuckic, Ba and Best would play in a better organised team.

Do you not think Vuckic did enough yesterday to get another start? I'm sick of looking along our front line and seeing Best standing yards off-side, yesterday he cost us a goal but other times he's costing us posession when going forward. I'm well up for it, but from what I know about him (which isn't a lot), he's still more of a complimentary midfielder than a goalscoring target man (target man in the way Bellamy is a target man, to be clear). Still seems to be growing into his own body, I can imagine him being a proper forward in the future, but when I have seen him in the past he's still looked weak and ponderous - someone you can hassle off his stroke. Not sure about his scoring record, either. Again, do something other than play a bog standard 442 with Obertan on the right wing and we can talk more. Seems like the Best row is a diversion - this is where the real problem lies, discussion about which man should be alongside Ba is just us attempting to accommodate idiocy. I want to already know what we look like with HBA, Ba and Best in the same team.

Indeed. Nice abs but I've got no idea where this Best is a big unit idea came from. Change of subject, but in essence very similar to pumping long balls at Andy Carroll. No player's much cop if he's used badly.

Precisely - that's why even if he could operate up front next to a dedicated marker, I see him as someone we'll normally get the best out of with a defence in front of him. More of a dribble and pass player than a sprint and shooter.

Best has done nothing to justify starting and everything to justify being dropped. Shy of a genuine 3 up front tactic (not some 451, 4321 thing), the only other option is Shola, in my mind. Otherwise I'm looking at Adam Campbell. Seriously.

Best isn't getting into goalscoring positions recently though. When he does, there tends to be a big gap between the midfield and attack which isn't so much of a problem when Ben Arfa plays IMO. While HBA's been guilty of running into trouble a few times this season I still prefer the look of our team with him in it. I know, but from the opposition's perspective, they still have to think about him in a way they might choose not to think about Gutierrez. Form is temporary, class (and he has at least some) is permanent. A bit like how a team would play a deeper defensive line against us in 2004 if we had Bellamy and his pace on the pitch as well as just Shearer, giving Shearer much more space and time to operate in. New potential threat, new defensive measures adopted, new offensive opportunities to exploit. Fwiw, I'd absolutely have HBA on the pitch as well as Best and Ba. They're not exclusive options apart, seemingly, from inside Pardew's head.

Totally agree, Pardew goes on about Obertan needing a run of games - well he's had 17 now this season. Problem is with these comments about the #10 position, Pardew has created this ridiculous situation where we can only really play Ben Arfa by changing our entire system. Which makes it unkindly. It also comes down to the fact that Pardew seems to have been the one behind the signing of Obertan, while Ben Arfa isn't really his signing. Could have sworn I'd heard Pardew deserved the credit for giving the HBA signing his go-ahead.

Not so much a big unit as a goalscorer. We wouldn't be having this conversation if Bellamy was at the club. Best can regularly finish things off - even if he's better at some times than others, he's officially a strike threat within 20 yards of goal and playing his whole game in the last third. The same can't be said of Ben Arfa, Obertan, Vuckic etc. The idea of the 'no central striker' teams is to swarm the opposition with loads of genuine, if not complete, threats - a 'front 4 or 5'. Ba can't run onto a reverse pass so easily if there are two defenders dedicated to cutting them out at his end.

He used to love the triple substitution. And it worked once from my memory when Stephen Glass scored vs Man Utd in 2000. After a Lua-Lua miskick. Bit of a fantasy that. It was true in his early days but simmered down a lot after the first few weeks of that 2000/01 season with Cordone and co. Once we had a good and settled team (Bellamy/Robert onwards), it was pretty rare. Perhaps too rare. In 2003/04: He did 3 substitutions against Man United, Birmingham City, Portsmouth, Fulham and Bolton. That's still quite frequent! Aye but not the 'lets get groovy' triple whammy, which I assume is what we're talking about*. A 67th, a 75th and a 92nd combo doesn't count. *It might have happened once among those games, can't say I've checked specifically. Those all were triple whammy substitutions. Rather embarrassingly - I actually checked the matches. Where can I check? Genuinely interested to see. Fair play. I'll be pedantic and point out Portsmouth was actually two substitution phases 1 minute apart, but still. Four or five is a good couple more than I was expecting.

He used to love the triple substitution. And it worked once from my memory when Stephen Glass scored vs Man Utd in 2000. After a Lua-Lua miskick. Bit of a fantasy that. It was true in his early days but simmered down a lot after the first few weeks of that 2000/01 season with Cordone and co. Once we had a good and settled team (Bellamy/Robert onwards), it was pretty rare. Perhaps too rare. In 2003/04: He did 3 substitutions against Man United, Birmingham City, Portsmouth, Fulham and Bolton. That's still quite frequent! Aye but not the 'lets get groovy' triple whammy, which I assume is what we're talking about*. A 67th, a 75th and a 92nd combo doesn't count. *It might have happened once among those games, can't say I've checked specifically. Those all were triple whammy substitutions. Rather embarrassingly - I actually checked the matches. Where can I check? Genuinely interested to see.

On a pure personality level, I think a lot of people have never taken to the bloke and/or have never forgiven him for his part in Hughton's ousting/Ashley's overall scheme. As such this is why they're picking up on relatively small things and using it to justify statements like 'fast running out of patience' and 'getting pissed off' when overall we've had a stonking run of success (on paper), the sort that would normally get someone a bit more slack. He lacks good will. This is the flipside of people like Ronaldo appreciating his grooming and wanting people to think they share habits. For me, I've never liked him and am unable to warm to him. Doesn't come into my judgement of his decisions here, though. I've voted 'brilliant' on this thread, and I'm not planning on changing it just yet. My thinking's generally along the lines of Mick's, but I still think some of the things some people are saying against him are loony. Would rather they just said 'don't like him, never will', if they haven't literally only just noticed after a dodgy result against a not-to-shit Swansea side during a massive injury crisis that we're strategically inflexible. It shouldn't have been so hard to spot, and if it was, then Pardew would deserve a bit of time to identify it and (more importantly) do something about it before calling him a knacker.

He used to love the triple substitution. And it worked once from my memory when Stephen Glass scored vs Man Utd in 2000. After a Lua-Lua miskick. Bit of a fantasy that. It was true in his early days but simmered down a lot after the first few weeks of that 2000/01 season with Cordone and co. Once we had a good and settled team (Bellamy/Robert onwards), it was pretty rare. Perhaps too rare. In 2003/04: He did 3 substitutions against Man United, Birmingham City, Portsmouth, Fulham and Bolton. That's still quite frequent! Aye but not the 'lets get groovy' triple whammy, which I assume is what we're talking about*. A 67th, a 75th and a 92nd combo doesn't count. *It might have happened once among those games, can't say I've checked specifically.

He used to love the triple substitution. And it worked once from my memory when Stephen Glass scored vs Man Utd in 2000. After a Lua-Lua miskick. Bit of a fantasy that. It was true in his early days but simmered down a lot after the first few weeks of that 2000/01 season with Cordone and co. Once we had a good and settled team (Bellamy/Robert onwards), it was pretty rare. Perhaps too rare.

Would have liked to have seen Cabaye and Nolan play in the same team. Think there could have been a feast.

Luckily nobody is. Laughable that people are comparing this situation to the Hughton one then, given that we're currently 6th only a couple of points off 5th, compared to 11th when we were by no means guaranteed of staying up. I didn't bring it up myself, but I suppose the reason it was is because of the point I made - a lot of people did start making out it was written in the stars and a good move to chuck someone who obviously lacked big team 'class'. It's them who need to justify why they won't want Pardew out if results don't pick up soon, because they should be consistent in talking patent bollocks. We weren't that far off 5th when Hughton went by the way, and guaranteed not to go down in my view. Moreso than now, even, not that I now expect us to in the slightest. Pointless comparing the two because Hughton was sacked because he wasn't a yes man. Same reason Shearer didn't get the job and the only reason Pardew did get the job. So, in that respect, football/results pretty much go out of the window. Agreed, as I say, it's just for those who say he should have gone for football/results reasons that should explain themselves. I've said in the past, the reason it's a bugbear of mine is because these people are cunts slagging off an NUFC icon who did us a serious fucking turn. It's not a Pardew issue for me now.

Luckily nobody is. Laughable that people are comparing this situation to the Hughton one then, given that we're currently 6th only a couple of points off 5th, compared to 11th when we were by no means guaranteed of staying up. I didn't bring it up myself, but I suppose the reason it was is because of the point I made - a lot of people did start making out it was written in the stars and a good move to chuck someone who obviously lacked big team 'class'. It's them who need to justify why they won't want Pardew out if results don't pick up soon, because they should be consistent in talking patent bollocks. We weren't that far off 5th when Hughton went by the way, and guaranteed not to go down in my view. Moreso than now, even, not that I now expect us to in the slightest.

Aye, in fairness I can't remember too many people being thrilled at his sacking, which as others have pointed out, was not result-related anyway IMO. It was more people twisting history after the event that was the issue - trying to justify why they'd seen the back of him. Only a fairly small portion agreed with the decision at the time, it's true.

Fuck off.

Yes, it follows from the principle of Schrodinger's Dolt. You see, Ashley and co are at the same time both Hannibal Lecter level evil geniuses and simple-schemed pantomime schlock crime drama villains. However, you're unable to determine which devilry they're practicing until you observe them for the purpose of complaining about them on the internet. That's pretty brilliant.