80

Yes, but they didn't have Mike Ashley and Derek Llambias running running them From our signings this season in Ben Arfa and Tiote i would say things are going in the right direction transfer policy wise. No, two different points. I'm not denying the possibility they can run (parts of) a club well, I'm saying Arsenal and Sevilla had Boards that wanted to achieve footballing success, whereas I suggest Ashley and Llambias don't . And for good measure they'll denigrate the club by treating it like a prostitute, going for streaks across the pitch, abusing good club servants and appointing Joe Kinnears of the world. This is really the fundamental difference between those that give Ashley a chance and those that won't. The utter f*ck ups of the past involving KK, Wise, JFK etc cannot be defended. The rare public pronouncements from "the club" by Llambias suggest that he is an utter c*nt with no class about him whatsoever. And from that perspective I welcome Pardew who does at least make an effort to communicate in a way that those that follow our club can relate to. The key though is whether there is anything about Ashley that wants the club to succeed on the pitch. I can totally understand the point of view you (and others) put forward and there is plenty of "previous" to back up your case. Fwiw I do think Ashley wants success. I don't think he wants to turn up and watch the team he owns being mediocre also rans. But he wants it done his way, and there is clearly a financial cap on what he will and what he won't do. He's stuck many millions into the club and to date not recovered any of it. How he responds to that situation is where his strategy will be defined. And of course if he really does want success there is the question of whether it is possible under the model he is operating. It is almost certain that whatever strategy he adopts it will depart from the one wanted by a lot of fans as it will not involve large funds of fresh investment in the squad. I do agree to an extent that he'd probably still like to own a successful team in and of itself. That said, I believe it comes a distant third to financial concerns (1] No more losses 2] Reduce losses 3] Make profit), with proving people wrong/not giving them the satisfaction of 'beating him' also probably taking the silver medal. As such, any team success would come out of little glory runs in cups and the league - upsets. The team likely being broken up not long after, out of deference to the greater cause.

Yes, but they didn't have Mike Ashley and Derek Llambias running running them From our signings this season in Ben Arfa and Tiote i would say things are going in the right direction transfer policy wise. We also signed Best and Perch [/obvious lazy retort] Wow, Neesy, you're actually holding up in this debate I don't do obvious lazy retorts... except for satire, that's my usual excuse.

Yes, but they didn't have Mike Ashley and Derek Llambias running running them From our signings this season in Ben Arfa and Tiote i would say things are going in the right direction transfer policy wise. No, two different points. I'm not denying the possibility they can run (parts of) a club well, I'm saying Arsenal and Sevilla had Boards that wanted to achieve footballing success, whereas I suggest Ashley and Llambias don't. And for good measure they'll denigrate the club by treating it like a prostitute, going for streaks across the pitch, abusing good club servants and appointing Joe Kinnears of the world.

I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. He'd still possess the value of the club though in absence of those players (a value which will have increased in the mean time). Furthermore, with ticket income remaining strong and guaranteed, if people take him up on 3+ year deals, he'll also have a relatively cheap wage bill. With television money having leaped up recently also, of course. Do we have any genuine reason to believe he is going to personally pocket the £35M from the sale of Andy Carroll and all transfer income from future player sales? Ticket income may be strong but not guaranteed(opt out clause at the end of each season), the value of the club remains but so would the debt that the club has. Value of club includes any assets the club has (including players) so selling them would decrease value of the club. No, because the club now has the value of the player in cash form. Hypothetically, if someone bought the club from him tomorrow, they'd also effectively be buying Andy Carroll's value (either in terms of an available balance, or more likely reduced debts). Yes, but the value of Assets at the club in terms of playing squad has fallen. If that £35M is spunked then the value of was spent and then wasted will have gone from the club. Indeed, or it might be well invested or not invested at all. And the team might do better or worse without him. So selling Carroll doesn't necessarily do anything to the club's value. Your right, as with Assets they can rise or fall. Tiote and Ben Arfa will be assets which are likely to rise, especially with Tiote. Which is why I disagreed and said Ashley can sell players and keep making money... That is correct, as long as we replace every player sold with a player with equal potential to that we'll make a profit on them. Isn't this what ashley has said he wants to do anycase ?!? Give or take, yep. Although the replacement player doesn't have to be as good as the player who just left, just ideally good enough to ensure the rest of the club doesn't lose any earning potential (largely through ticket sales and television money). That way you can sell high, buy cheap and pocket the profit. Brilliant if you are Ashley, but is that what you want our football club to become?! If it get's rid of him sooner, I'm all for it. Fair play, but the question is whether he'd really want to go if it's that profitable and he's given an easy ride by people. It'll take him a long time even on that model for him to make his money back. I'm sure with the negative publicity etc, he would rather get rid of us. Won't take that long at all in the great scheme of things. Not many businesses offer the returns he could be looking at. Also, remember, he'll get a big chunk of money as and when he sells the club - add whatever it goes for on top of whatever he does take out of the club first. Furthermore, he doesn't get that much negative publicity really. Nothing compared to what he could receive. Hell, if I were him I'd take a certain pleasure in having a small legion of people trying to do anyone down who do criticise him, as well.

There's a lot to be said for it, it's true. Part of why it's so frustrating he employs a pack of wankers to do his bidding and isn't really on the club's side.

Yes, but they didn't have Mike Ashley and Derek Llambias running running them

The technical term for it is a brain fart, it's not the biggest deal.

I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. He'd still possess the value of the club though in absence of those players (a value which will have increased in the mean time). Furthermore, with ticket income remaining strong and guaranteed, if people take him up on 3+ year deals, he'll also have a relatively cheap wage bill. With television money having leaped up recently also, of course. Do we have any genuine reason to believe he is going to personally pocket the £35M from the sale of Andy Carroll and all transfer income from future player sales? Ticket income may be strong but not guaranteed(opt out clause at the end of each season), the value of the club remains but so would the debt that the club has. Value of club includes any assets the club has (including players) so selling them would decrease value of the club. No, because the club now has the value of the player in cash form. Hypothetically, if someone bought the club from him tomorrow, they'd also effectively be buying Andy Carroll's value (either in terms of an available balance, or more likely reduced debts). Yes, but the value of Assets at the club in terms of playing squad has fallen. If that £35M is spunked then the value of was spent and then wasted will have gone from the club. Indeed, or it might be well invested or not invested at all. And the team might do better or worse without him. So selling Carroll doesn't necessarily do anything to the club's value. Your right, as with Assets they can rise or fall. Tiote and Ben Arfa will be assets which are likely to rise, especially with Tiote. Which is why I disagreed and said Ashley can sell players and keep making money... That is correct, as long as we replace every player sold with a player with equal potential to that we'll make a profit on them. Isn't this what ashley has said he wants to do anycase ?!? Give or take, yep. Although the replacement player doesn't have to be as good as the player who just left, just ideally good enough to ensure the rest of the club doesn't lose any earning potential (largely through ticket sales and television money). That way you can sell high, buy cheap and pocket the profit. Brilliant if you are Ashley, but is that what you want our football club to become?! If it get's rid of him sooner, I'm all for it. Fair play, but the question is whether he'd really want to go if it's that profitable and he's given an easy ride by people.

I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. He'd still possess the value of the club though in absence of those players (a value which will have increased in the mean time). Furthermore, with ticket income remaining strong and guaranteed, if people take him up on 3+ year deals, he'll also have a relatively cheap wage bill. With television money having leaped up recently also, of course. Do we have any genuine reason to believe he is going to personally pocket the £35M from the sale of Andy Carroll and all transfer income from future player sales? Ticket income may be strong but not guaranteed(opt out clause at the end of each season), the value of the club remains but so would the debt that the club has. Value of club includes any assets the club has (including players) so selling them would decrease value of the club. No, because the club now has the value of the player in cash form. Hypothetically, if someone bought the club from him tomorrow, they'd also effectively be buying Andy Carroll's value (either in terms of an available balance, or more likely reduced debts). Yes, but the value of Assets at the club in terms of playing squad has fallen. If that £35M is spunked then the value of was spent and then wasted will have gone from the club. Indeed, or it might be well invested or not invested at all. And the team might do better or worse without him. So selling Carroll doesn't necessarily do anything to the club's value. Your right, as with Assets they can rise or fall. Tiote and Ben Arfa will be assets which are likely to rise, especially with Tiote. Which is why I disagreed and said Ashley can sell players and keep making money... That is correct, as long as we replace every player sold with a player with equal potential to that we'll make a profit on them. Isn't this what ashley has said he wants to do anycase ?!? Give or take, yep. Although the replacement player doesn't have to be as good as the player who just left, just ideally good enough to ensure the rest of the club doesn't lose any earning potential (largely through ticket sales and television money). That way you can sell high, buy cheap and pocket the profit. Brilliant if you are Ashley, but is that what you want our football club to become?! Indeed. Given that and everything else he and his people have done, and everything everyone has ever said about them, I don't trust them with that profit in the slightest. Seems some still do for some reason.

He was asked by a journalist about the Liverpool interest in him today. And? What did he say? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/n/newcastle_united/9397088.stm

I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. He'd still possess the value of the club though in absence of those players (a value which will have increased in the mean time). Furthermore, with ticket income remaining strong and guaranteed, if people take him up on 3+ year deals, he'll also have a relatively cheap wage bill. With television money having leaped up recently also, of course. Do we have any genuine reason to believe he is going to personally pocket the £35M from the sale of Andy Carroll and all transfer income from future player sales? Ticket income may be strong but not guaranteed(opt out clause at the end of each season), the value of the club remains but so would the debt that the club has. Value of club includes any assets the club has (including players) so selling them would decrease value of the club. No, because the club now has the value of the player in cash form. Hypothetically, if someone bought the club from him tomorrow, they'd also effectively be buying Andy Carroll's value (either in terms of an available balance, or more likely reduced debts). Yes, but the value of Assets at the club in terms of playing squad has fallen. If that £35M is spunked then the value of was spent and then wasted will have gone from the club. Indeed, or it might be well invested or not invested at all. And the team might do better or worse without him. So selling Carroll doesn't necessarily do anything to the club's value. Your right, as with Assets they can rise or fall. Tiote and Ben Arfa will be assets which are likely to rise, especially with Tiote. Which is why I disagreed and said Ashley can sell players and keep making money... That is correct, as long as we replace every player sold with a player with equal potential to that we'll make a profit on them. Isn't this what ashley has said he wants to do anycase ?!? Give or take, yep. Although the replacement player doesn't have to be as good as the player who just left, just ideally good enough to ensure the rest of the club doesn't lose any earning potential (largely through ticket sales and television money). That way you can sell high, buy cheap and pocket the profit.

I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. Well he saved a good £55 million on wages last season alone. Even with the players we've signed since, our wage bill can only have gone up £15 million a year. I'd say compared to this time 20 months ago, our wage bill has decreased by at least £40 million a year. Neesy, I don't think Ashley is trying to get us relegated this season. 2008/09 however ... £55M, hahahaha. Where you getting those figures from? NUST??? No chance that owen, martins, viduka, beye, duff, bassong, xisco were on £55M between them. January 2009 - January 2010 (Being modest, I think) Given - £60k N'somnia - £30k Owen - £105k a week Bassong - £30k Viduka - £65k Martins - £75k Cacapa - £30k Beye - £30k Duff - £70k Gonzalez - £10k (being very modest) Geremi - £40k Comes to around £50 million a year. Given - £3m Insomia - £1.5m Owen - £5m Bassong - 500k (no chance bassong was on 30k) Viduka - £3.5M Martins - £3.5M Cacapa - £1.5M Beye - 1.75M Duff - £3M Gonzalez - 500k Geremi - £2.5M Grand Total Of: Around £25M a year. You need to back to school mate. To get £50 million I added the player sales to the saving in wages. I can't believe I've just witnessed Neesy schooling someone on N-O this is Hall of Fame worthy I thought it was pretty clear he was including the transfer value, to be fair... But yeah, this hasn't looked good, I'll give you that, heh...

I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. He'd still possess the value of the club though in absence of those players (a value which will have increased in the mean time). Furthermore, with ticket income remaining strong and guaranteed, if people take him up on 3+ year deals, he'll also have a relatively cheap wage bill. With television money having leaped up recently also, of course. Do we have any genuine reason to believe he is going to personally pocket the £35M from the sale of Andy Carroll and all transfer income from future player sales? Ticket income may be strong but not guaranteed(opt out clause at the end of each season), the value of the club remains but so would the debt that the club has. Value of club includes any assets the club has (including players) so selling them would decrease value of the club. No, because the club now has the value of the player in cash form. Hypothetically, if someone bought the club from him tomorrow, they'd also effectively be buying Andy Carroll's value (either in terms of an available balance, or more likely reduced debts). Yes, but the value of Assets at the club in terms of playing squad has fallen. If that £35M is spunked then the value of was spent and then wasted will have gone from the club. Indeed, or it might be well invested or not invested at all. And the team might do better or worse without him. So selling Carroll doesn't necessarily do anything to the club's value. Your right, as with Assets they can rise or fall. Tiote and Ben Arfa will be assets which are likely to rise, especially with Tiote. Which is why I originally disagreed and said Ashley can sell players and not harm his investment...

I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. He'd still possess the value of the club though in absence of those players (a value which will have increased in the mean time). Furthermore, with ticket income remaining strong and guaranteed, if people take him up on 3+ year deals, he'll also have a relatively cheap wage bill. With television money having leaped up recently also, of course. Do we have any genuine reason to believe he is going to personally pocket the £35M from the sale of Andy Carroll and all transfer income from future player sales? Ticket income may be strong but not guaranteed(opt out clause at the end of each season), the value of the club remains but so would the debt that the club has. Value of club includes any assets the club has (including players) so selling them would decrease value of the club. No, because the club now has the value of the player in cash form. Hypothetically, if someone bought the club from him tomorrow, they'd also effectively be buying Andy Carroll's value (either in terms of an available balance, or more likely reduced debts). Yes, but the value of Assets at the club in terms of playing squad has fallen. If that £35M is spunked then the value of was spent and then wasted will have gone from the club. Indeed, or it might be well invested or not invested at all. And the team might do better or worse without him. So selling Carroll doesn't necessarily do anything to the club's value.

I'm operating on a time lag...

Basically speaking, precisely. And that hasn't go much to do with league success.

I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. He'd still possess the value of the club though in absence of those players (a value which will have increased in the mean time). Furthermore, with ticket income remaining strong and guaranteed, if people take him up on 3+ year deals, he'll also have a relatively cheap wage bill. With television money having leaped up recently also, of course. Do we have any genuine reason to believe he is going to personally pocket the £35M from the sale of Andy Carroll and all transfer income from future player sales? Ticket income may be strong but not guaranteed(opt out clause at the end of each season), the value of the club remains but so would the debt that the club has. Value of club includes any assets the club has (including players) so selling them would decrease value of the club. No, because the club now has the value of the player in cash form. Hypothetically, if someone bought the club from him tomorrow, they'd also effectively be buying Andy Carroll's value (either in terms of an available balance, or more likely reduced debts).

If he runs the club the way he wants to, relegation will only be disappointing, it won't cost much. The plan is to run is within Division 2 means so that relegation doesn't hurt much but Premiership status is extremely rewarding. Nonsense. The plan is to run the club within its means and thus not to operate at a loss. That does not equal run within Division 2 means. Division 2 means relative to our natural size as a club. West Bromwich Albion with an extra 20,000 supporters. Run well, we'll have a good chance of staying up each season and if things go wrong and we ever go down it won't destroy his investment or embarrass him. Each season we stay up will be very profitable therefore. You're free to speculate as to where that money will go.

I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. He'd still possess the value of the club though in absence of those players (a value which will have increased in the mean time). Furthermore, with ticket income remaining strong and guaranteed, if people take him up on 3+ year deals, he'll also have a relatively cheap wage bill. With television money having leaped up recently also, of course. Do we have any genuine reason to believe he is going to personally pocket the £35M from the sale of Andy Carroll and all transfer income from future player sales? Ticket income may be strong but not guaranteed(opt out clause at the end of each season), the value of the club remains but so would the debt that the club has. Even people who aren't critics of his will agree he is indirectly going to pocket the Carroll money and more just in as far as it's publicly stated he intends to recover the £100m or so he's loaned to the club (the only debt the club has, for better or for worse). Beyond that, I do because he's always acted in a manner conducive to making the club profitable and has developed serious antipathy to the support since he arrived. That it was his cohort that created that situation is his own problem of course, seeing as he hasn't disavowed them. Even aside from contracts guaranteeing ticket income, it's a reasonable judgement to say ticket income is largely guaranteed because our support has an historic and recent reputation of loyalty to the club which in practice has meant people turning up and giving him money even when they hate him and the things he's doing to the club. If that changed, the wouldn't think relegations can be comfortable romps like they were last time.

If he runs the club the way he wants to, relegation will only be disappointing, it won't cost much. The plan is to run is within Division 2 means so that relegation doesn't hurt much but Premiership status is extremely rewarding.

I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. He'd still possess the value of the club though in absence of those players (a value which will have increased in the mean time). Furthermore, with ticket income remaining strong and guaranteed, if people take him up on 3+ year deals, he'll also have a relatively cheap wage bill. With television money having leaped up recently also, of course.

If we had kept Carroll, brought in a good striker (Gameiro/El Arabi for example) and someone like Kranjcar - whilst shifting some of the deadwood (so net spend of about £11m), we would have become one of those ''better clubs imo''. Depressing. Well we could still bring in a good striker, and some other bodies. I really think the massive negativity at the moment basically boils down to the Carroll sale. Before that must people thought things were looking up. Some did, some didn't. Personally, I thought the ones who did lacked a certain amount of sense, but still. Even the more neutral had strong suspicions about what would take place in January - thought it provided a testing ground. Thing is, a lot of the ones who did were clinging to the idea that Pardew being brought in, as a supposed mate of the Board and on a long contract, along with his quotes about his door-knocking skills, was a signal that Ashley was changing his financial strategy. Wrongly.

A very valid question and one worth putting to Ashley seeing as we had one more of even greater significance than most in January.

Changing the terms of the discussion a little bit, but the England squad doesn't have many players in it that are England class. The whole thing needs an overhaul, and bearing in mind we have the highest proportion of English players in the country and can play well, we're worth looking at. Not discounting players at other clubs of course, but Barton, Nolan and Simpson, and possibly Harper and Williamson should have been called up along with Carroll for assessment to see if they should be part of a newly forged team/squad/system, because the old one is patently not up to the job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZlkizPU5Mc