Rich

Harsh. He's been poorly. The diseased, overrated, mediocre little s*** for brains.......ah, thats better. Unbelievable, tbh. Honestly don't understand some of the slating Dyer gets on here. Really? Oh well. Maybe, when you stop believing he is an international-standard, creative player who actually contributes anything tangible, you'll come to your senses. Good luck with that. Can I just point out, the word "an" can only be used when the following word is a vowel. As in: "an international"? Or was this just a general aside to things?

Cracking thread this, by the way. A pleasant change from slagging off the current lot... let's share it out in equal measure with the previous dross as well, it's only fair. You've been in fine fettle lately though Stevie, and I'm glad the Barton thing wasn't as irrational as I first felt it might have been, thanks to you and Yorkie/'s Dad. Let's not sidetrack it with bullshite though, eh lads? I'm sure this could turn out to be a quality thread if people's agendas are put to one side.

Warren Barton, John Beresford and Jermaine Jenas. Cannot explain the first two, apart from their respective hairstyles during the Keegan days, and surely the last one needs no further explanation. Thinking about it for a moment, I've just always felt that Barton was utter shite for the money we paid for him at the time and I can recall numerous costly ricks that riled me no end back in the day. As for Bez, he was probably a lot better than I remember him as being and he didn't exactly have an easy job standing out in amongst some of the players he had alongside him, but something just ever stopped me from appreciating him. Being more current, it's harder for me to name players that I like these days more than it is dislike.

Erm, sorry to bring reality into this fantasy land that most people seem happy to inhabit, but the financial accounts I read showed a loss, A BIG FAT LOSS!! I know it's boring and I know I say this all the time, but some of you lot really need to think about where the money's coming from. As I alluded to on the first page, they'll probably be forced to spend money even if it's not really there - although I certainly don't see us as being skint as some like to think and I most definitely think a lot more of Shepherd than the vast majority on here. Certainly if things get more desperate by the end of the season at least, we'll see money spent. If we are going to lose about 7 of our senior players (Bernard, Bramble, Emre, Luque, Moore, Onyewu and Srnicek at the least, I'd expect - and five of those seven will see us getting no cash at all) then it's going to take some fucking money to fill those gaps AND improve the squad elsewhere. It's going to be a mammoth summer, it simply has to be whether it be right or wrong, and unless we've got some aces up our sleeve it's going to be another expensive one. I sincerely hope we get our share of quality in on Bosman deals in order to soften the blow, or we at least get good money if Emre does go and something for Luque, because otherwise, as you say, things could get worrying. But really, we probably don't know the half of it when it comes to where our money comes from or where it goes, which is probably for the best. Roeder has been saying he hopes to loan out the likes of Carroll, Edgar, Huntington, Krul and Pattison (although obviously we should take that with the usual handful of salt) - but if those hopes are genuine then we'll surely be looking at replacing most of those seven players above man-for-man, at the very least, otherwise it's absolutely pie-in-the-sky to say that those younger ones mentioned can be afforded experience elsewhere. I'm not sure what Glenn's ideal squad number is, but assuming those said players do all go permanently/on loan, we'd be left with 17 senior players in the squad (Given, Harper, Carr, Solano, Taylor, Ramage, Babayaro, Milner, Dyer, Parker, Butt, N'Zogbia, Duff, Owen, Ameobi, Martins and Sibierski.) And who can say that Carr, Babayaro, N'Zogbia and even the likes of Owen or Milner will still be here come August? That, quite frankly, makes me shit my pants... and that's even before you take into account that about a quarter/third of those remaining probably don't deserve to be anywhere near the first team any longer. That's being fairly polite to some, as well. It's a bit surreal that it's come to this from the squad we had assembled when Robson was here, but we've come back from similar positions before in our recent history and I have to have faith that we will again and that Shepherd and the board will again provide the money that sees us alright, while keeping us in the top flight and offering us the fairly regular European adventure along with it.

Who cares? 'Whey, we've won nowt, but we hosted the final once!' It's good for the city and all that jazz. I'd personally like to see it happen.

Was thinking about this question myself today, as with the injuries mounting at the back and Man Utd still having to go to Stamford Bridge, I think I'm going to have a flutter on Chelsea tomorrow - 9-2 at PaddyPower, haven't checked anywhere else.

Cheers mate. I'll start preparing my Football Manager CV now.

It was the best corner I've ever seen, in fairness. It was effortless in execution. A true marvel.

Nicky Butt, set-piece specialist. It's got a nice ring to it, I'll give you that much. Can't help but think we're clutching at straws when we're on about one corner from an unusual source being positive in 94 minutes of football, though. He's also a miles better option in the box than Milner, Solano, Emre and N'Zogbia as well, so I'd still be dubious about it, despite the zany quality it has to it. Is this a serious post or not, by the way? The way things are on here lately I barely have a fucking clue anymore.

calm down.

There was that shakey point for Oliver last season when Shepherd refused to speak to him for a while, though, so the bloke does have the occasional brave moment where he'll tell it as he really sees it. I bet he fucking hates FS more than any of us do, really, I know it comes naturally to some people but arse-licking him and his cronies for this long must be fucking soul-destroying for anyone. It's a catch-22 really, the bloke is losing credibility with the fans as more and more have their eyes opened up to his true position, but he sees himself as being in an unassailable place due to his role under Shepherd/amongst the ignorant masses. I do genuinely think there'll be a lot of people in the region who take Oliver as their gospel on all things NUFC, which is a shame really because it continually allows the club to get away with murder in the way that Isegrim has suggested. Not for much longer though, looking at it.

I was reading from the initial article in the thread, which unsurprisingly says exactly the same as your selected quote, along with the fact that Roeder/the team "deserved" to be jeered from the field. So there's two "criticisms" for you, apparently - when really only the second one is such. What, exactly, is your point here? I've already said that he's disagreed about the relegation issue and that in the Damien Duff article (i.e. the one that this thread was started about) the players take all of the blame apart from in the two lines I've already mentioned. How many times do you want me to say it? The players take the vast majority of the blame in today's Chronicle and there are a total of three sentences specifically about Glenn Roeder, two of which are exactly the same as each other but in different stories. It's hardly a damning indictment from Shepherd handed down via Oliver, is it? He has disagreed with Roeder before, as well, over certain comments that he's made at certain times - I think it's Parky-tastic that people are picking up so highly on one line that is merely a journalist offering an alternative opinion to a manager. calm down. I'm alright man. I'm just at a loss to understand why you've told me to read the article "again" and then when I do and comment on it, you simply post a quote from another article that says exactly the same as one I've already directly written in a post. It's like you're walking in a big circle and constantly asking me to follow you because we're going to end up somewhere great - and I'm daft enough to keep going! I will admit that it's frustrating when I'm trying to have a reasoned conversation about a couple of pieces of news and I'm being condescendingly told by a lad who thinks Shearer offered NUFC "very little" in eight years to "re-read" the article because I'm disagreeing with him - in the vain hope that I'll magically see the light and realise I'm completely wrong about the way I've looked at it. The fact is, though, that Oliver again blames the players for lines and lines and lines and Roeder gets three of them of what might be called criticism over two whole articles. I'm just saying, I'm not sure he's a goner just yet. It's at times like these I can understand why Vic is an utter cycle-path on this board most of the time.

Have you missed the numerous posts/articles/links that state over and over that the money is coming from outside sources?

He doesn't exactly have an easy job, does he? I keep saying that while he has no excuse for being an arse the majority of the time, he does have an excuse for not being able to write his full opinions about the chairman/club. He relies on exclusives from NUFC to sell his papers and to upkeep his surprisingly good reputation, if you take that away then he might as well write for True Faith or the Journal. True but it's also worth noting that The Journal are much more objective in there coverage of NUFC. Oliver might as well be writing for the official website for all the objectivity he has. On a different note, Roeder's days are probably numbered once Oliver starts having a pop at him Oh definitely, but you don't see the lads from the Journal getting their mugs on SSN every time a story about the Toon comes out. I'm not saying it's right and I'm not saying I think Oliver writes better stories than the Journal lads (because he doesn't), but it's not hard to appreciate that he has to keep in with Shepherd to sell his papers.

I was reading from the initial article in the thread, which unsurprisingly says exactly the same as your selected quote, along with the fact that Roeder/the team "deserved" to be jeered from the field. So there's two "criticisms" for you, apparently - when really only the second one is such. What, exactly, is your point here? I've already said that he's disagreed about the relegation issue and that in the Damien Duff article (i.e. the one that this thread was started about) the players take all of the blame apart from in the two lines I've already mentioned. How many times do you want me to say it? The players take the vast majority of the blame in today's Chronicle and there are a total of three sentences specifically about Glenn Roeder, two of which are exactly the same as each other but in different stories. It's hardly a damning indictment from Shepherd handed down via Oliver, is it? He has disagreed with Roeder before, as well, over certain comments that he's made at certain times - I think it's Parky-tastic that people are picking up so highly on one line that is merely a journalist offering an alternative opinion to a manager.

He doesn't exactly have an easy job, does he? I keep saying that while he has no excuse for being an arse the majority of the time, he does have an excuse for not being able to write his full opinions about the chairman/club. He relies on exclusives from NUFC to sell his papers and to upkeep his surprisingly good reputation, if you take that away then he might as well write for True Faith or the Journal.

I believe you're correct. Maybe it's a better option for them (or someone like them) to fund the development rather than buy the club lock stock and barrel. Total speculation but if you generate an average income of around £1000 per seat off season ticket, cup games, food & beverages, merchandise etc then 8000 extra seats generates around £8m per year for the club in extra revenue. In anyones book, any business who can expand revenue by 8 million a year for life should take that opportunity. Coupled with the lease from the ground this is a very lucrative deal for the club!!! We're not even going to sell as many season tickets as last year though - there's no waiting list anymore, the ones we sell at the minute are the extent of the demand for them. So it's not an extra £8m revenue guaranteed at all. It's probably just an extra 8000 empty seats. Exactly, people simply cannot overlook this. The proposal has the potential to be a good one if the team is improved along with it (as MJ said earlier, along with me), otherwise we're looking at another thing to add to the list that could make us "potentially" decent - rather than helping us out any in the short-term.

"for the record etc..." re read the article for the exact quote. nowt major but a criticism none the less. He said the jeering for Roeder and his team was fully deserved and that he thinks we could be in a dogfight if we keep playing like this, whereas Roeder doesn't. If you re-read the article you will see the rest of it blames the players alone and there's absolutely nothing levelled at FS/GR, which is what I said initially.

We'll see. If he goes before next season I'll give you your due, but I cannot see it happening. Too many excuses this season for him to use which will see him keep the job at least until August and even then I bet we get more injuries or some scandal that will see him survive for a few months longer... or he could turn it around... ^-^

Also, it's worth noting that this isn't the first time Oliver has openly disagreed with something that Roeder has said - the bloke might need to keep good relations with the club, but he's still a journo at the end of the day. I'm sure Roeder will appreciate that he's entitled to his opinion and that he's trying to find the balance between the fans and the club, while being an utter arse along with it.

Personally, I saw the players taking the blame yet again, rather than the Gaffer/Shepherd.

And who can say that the ground expansion isn't essential to creating more space for potential businesses within the ground: ala Shearer's and the Metro station, etc. Obviously it's difficult to debate when we don't know the entire crux of the matter, but while I do agree with MJ in the utterly obvious assumption that the team will need to do well to fill the stadium, I'd far rather we built-up the stadium than gave Shepherd and Roeder an extra wedge of cash to spend.

Martins knew what he was getting into when he asked for the number 9 shirt and he quite simply has to accept the reasoned criticism that comes his way. He was the most expensive player on the park for us on Saturday and has been in every single game he's played this season - with the price-tag and the shirt comes enormous responsibility. It's like Parker being the number one target because he wears the armband, Martins is next in line because of his position and the previous two factors mentioned. Now there is someone saying a bloke who had both of those roles to fill and a bigger price tag on his head offered practically nothing for over 8 years here "other than goals" - I feel I've read almost everything on this board after seeing that gem. Martins does deserve credit for sticking at it, if nothing else, he must have something about him with the number of games he's had to play this season - with almost zero support for the vast majority of most of them - and he's yet to succumb to an injury or cry-off like a number of more senior players than him have perhaps done recently. Oliver is wrong to demand his sale, but we all know about him, don't we? I wouldn't worry about it too much - we might even get treat to Oba giving him a good kicking - John Gibson is probably going into hiding very soon if his vendetta keeps up.

Perhaps so, but if we spend anything less than £10m this summer I'll be extremely surprised. Whether we have the money or not, if things don't improve on the playing side before this season finally ends then Shepherd will see no alternative to bringing in some big-name signings. I know I've raised a couple of eyebrows by suggesting this in previous weeks, but we spent over £15m last summer after a season without European football and after spending £50m the summer before. This season we've got increased revenue from Europe and the increased TV money alongside it, which to me will equate to the cash being splashed in July/August. I know people will say that everyone else is getting the same on the TV front, but other countries aren't - so I'd expect a fair few players coming in from abroad, rather than from domestic clubs. Roeder and Shepherd could be hanging by a thread by May-time, it will be the last roll of the dice for the manager at the very least, regardless of future consequences.