macphisto

What is it with people going on about Martinez? What has he done, I mean that as a genuine question because his team is only 8th in the table. Does that qualify someone to manage a club like Newcastle? I can't believe how far people's standards have fallen! Unless there's something else behind his story that I don't know. Any way for me I think there's one man who would be great for our club, Gerald Houllier. Would be a great manager who would stablise the club, might not win anything but would sort the club out from top to bottom!

Like everyone else it's a no brainer with regards to Kinnear going or being relegated but I would take relegation if it meant Ashley going and getting a new owner who knew what they were doing!

Ten years ago, maybe. But now, it will take years and years for a lower-flight club to establish themselves as European/top half contenders. Such is the state of the game. If we go down that is it for a long, long time. We're more likely to drop a further division than come back up within a couple of years, given the fact we won't be able to get a good manager, the humongous exodus of players, the inability to find replacements. Amazes me how anyone can look at relegation in any manner of positivity. So if we go down, that's it? Bull. A good manager (at that level would suffice) will have us back up again. I mean Thick Mick (not wor Mick ) at Wolves has them top and he's proved himself to be a crap manager at PL level. As for positivity... relegation will be a massive massive disappointment without a doubt - huge. But that first game of the season will see a return of optimism and hope for the coming campaign, one that can be exciting all the same as 92-93 was - argued by many as better than any season we've had since in the top-flight. Back to managers... we could still attract a good manager even outside of the PL. I reckon Bruce under the right conditions would drop down a level to manage us. I reckon Martinez would swap Swansea for SJP. I reckon Ketsbaia would swap European football for us, I reckon if Mick McCarthy can take a team up to the PL, then anyone can and given the vast number of DIFFERENT managers who actually have, well... sort of enforces my point. The Championship is a tough old division but then isn't any league tough? We'd storm that league under a decent manager and some decent players (of that level even). Most players in that division would walk over broken glass to play for Newcastle. Most managers in that division would too. If we start next season as a Championship club I for one will be there and as excited, hopeful and as supportive as I've ever been. Liverpool or Anfield are just names. The actual football is where its at and as far as I'm concerned we can't do much worse on that front then what we've been served with for the past few years now. Play decent football, win games, look to be going places and have players that wear the shirt with pride and it doesn't matter what division we're in, whose names are on the back of those shirts or who happens to be our manager or how many full houses we get, the feelings for the team and club will remain strong and in many ways more stronger. That's all I really care about, a team that plays decent football, wins its fair share of matches and looks to have a future. Don't be fooled by Sky, that badge on the arms of shirts and names like Liverpool and grounds like Anfield. The PL is just a league and the spectacle a game all the same. Its what happens on the pitch that counts and is all that matters. A win is a win, a loss is a loss. A crap performance is a crap performance while a great one is a great one.... doesn't really matter who the opposition is. One of the best posts I've read on here in a long time, don't agree on everything you said but really admire the attitude!

Nah. Even if you do read it that way, then you can't ignore that he's blaming the owners for causing the fans' reaction and therefore the responsibility would ultimately lie at their door. I have to say that to pick out that rather tenuous interpretation and ignore the rest of what was said suggests that you might possibly have an agenda against the writer, wonder why that might be? You did see the quote from Keegan didn't you, why no accusations sent in his direction? Do I have an agenda? Not trying to be smart or anything but it depends on the interpretation of agenda. I think Ryder is a very poor journalist but I have nothing against him as really the Chronicle has had its day in my opinion. You're right that ultimately blame would lie with Ashley for causing the bad feeling amongst the fans but the way I read the paragraph I pointed out it was saying that the negativity from fans was transferring itself to the pitch which is why we're now in a relegation fight. It may be a short paragraph on a theme not central to his blog but sometimes these small snippets reveal a lot! Reason I posted is that I wanted to see if I read it correctly, nothing more. I ignored the rest as in my opinion the rest isn't worth commenting on and as I said I wouldn't get into a discussion with Ashley sympathisers (which is how the thread would go if I brought up the other issues) as I haven't got a lot of time for them. Just as they probably haven't got a lot of time for my views. None of us are going change our positions. With regards to Keegan’s comment, he may have had a go at the fans in the past when we’ve gone through a sticky spell but I very much doubt he would blame the fans for being in a relegation dog fight. There’s only two reasons for being in a relegation fight; poor players or a poor manager, a mixture of both.

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere but has anyone read Ryder's latest blog on NUSC? http://www.blogonthetyne.co.uk/2009/03/nusc-in-change-of-direction.html#more I'm not going to go into the ins and outs of the article as basically I'm pro NUSC/anti-Ashley and there's no point getting into a discussion on here as the level of debate in the football forum is dire at the moment. When compared to the level of debate in the general chat forum, there's just no comparison. Anyway the reason for me posting is to ask if I'm the only one who thinks Ryder is blaming pressure from the fans for Newcastle’s plight, 5th paragraph down beginning....Try to dictate to that passion like... If he is I'm flabbergasted that someone can blame the fans for us being in relegation dogfight. Never thought I'd see the day when I would have both Sheppard AND Oliver back!!!

Yeah it's full of mongs slagging off Ryder the mong for taking the side Llambias the mong! Is there really any need to call people mongs for criticising Ryder's journalism? So what was funny about the comments then? I can only see someone quoting Monty Python and someone do the Coalition of United Newcastle Team Supporters thing, but totally f*** it up by putting "Fans" instead of "Supporters" and also missing out "Team". f*** me, that's hilarious, isn't it!?! So I can only assume that you find it hilarious because people have criticised Ryder's journalism and if you're entitled to find that funny, then I'm entitled to ask the question: "Why, have a load of mongs gone on there and slagged him off?" and it was a question as I hadn't read it beforehand, you could have simply answered: "No, but some of the comments are funny", if that had been the case, but it wasn't was it, some mongs had indeed slagged him off and you'd hoped that everyone would have gone "Oh yes macphisto, we all agree with you those comments are comedy genius.", but that didn't happen and now you've got all upset and offended about my use of a mildly insulting term. Never mind, have a keyring, that'll make everything all better. Yes, I know, how condescending of me, I'm disappointed in myself, I really am. There’s a lot of hysteria in that answer, are you OK? Do you really think I posted so that everyone would have gone "Oh yes macphisto, we all agree with you those comments are comedy genius.",? All I can do is plead guilty to that one. Actually the real reason for posting it is that I did find some of the remarks such as the Monty Python one and for example the reference to Steven Taylor quite humorous together with the whole awkwardness of a blog where people openly disagree with the writer! Very Alan Partridge! Yes I could have responded to your question as "No, but some of the comments are funny" just like you could have responded to my question in a more adult fashion. Maybe it’s just different moral standards but I just find it sad that you call people mongs without first having a look at what they said. You want to be careful that you don’t become what you mock. I’ll give the NUSC keyring a miss as I’m quite happy with my Handala one for now!

Yeah it's full of mongs slagging off Ryder the mong for taking the side Llambias the mong! Is there really any need to call people mongs for criticising Ryder's journalism?

What ever your view on NUSC, it's quite funny to read the responses to Ryder's post on his blog! It willl be interesting to see if he responds!

I defy anyone to come up with anything that has happened so far that indicates that this is a false description of Ashley's plan. You think that was the plan with Keegan too then? I deft anyone to find someone who can blame Ashley for this "plan". Of course he's going to want to make as much as possible if he sells. Didn't we, the supporters, all want him to sell anyway? Well all evidence would say yes that was his plan when Keegan was here. He didn’t back him with any sort of money. There were rumours from day one that he was looking to sell which many people including me didn’t believe at the time. Ashley then went on to say that he was looking for local investors to invest in the club and then from this he was selling up! He could easily have taken the heat out of the Keegan situation if he was here for the long term. Even now people are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt even though I think it’s blindingly obvious that he doesn’t care about the club. He used the whole Keegan episode as an excuse to try and get out openly. It all goes back to him buying the club with out conducting due diligence. At the time I and many other people had a good right to think he must be loaded to buy a club without conducting due diligence. As it turns out I and many other people were wrong, he was simply clueless. You have to be an idiot to buy a club without looking at the books when you haven’t got bundles of cash to pump into the club!

For anyone out there who is against NUSC and think that a supporters club should be trying to work with the board, could you please explain their position. I'm just completely baffled why people think this would help the club. From day one the board has just about done everything wrong to warrant any faith in them. In my opinion it doesn't matter whether NUSC works in partnership with the board or not, the board will continue to run the club badly and not listen to anyone. This being the case NUFC may as well try and force them out of town!

After reading a lot of the posts on here I was just wondering if I’m the only person to think that there’s possibly a few agent provocateurs acting on behalf of the club posting messages? I really am bamboozled by the amount of people who are so willing to: Support Ashley or give him the benefit of the doubt Negativity towards the last board (I was far from their biggest fan but compared the current set up they are not so bad!) Bad mouthing NUSC I’m not going to get into the individual arguments of why I find so many people holding the above views bizarre as that has been done to death. I’m just more interested in knowing if I’m the only one who thinks that the views expressed on this forum are very out of sync with their own opinions or people they know? Of course there’s always going to be two sides to every argument but a few years back I could always empathise with other people’s views on this forum even when I didn’t agree with them, the debate just seemed a lot more informed! If some of the posters on here are not working for the club, I can only presume that they get a kick out of trying to be clever and arguing against what I see as the consensus in the street. May be I’m wrong and I’m the person out of sync with the majority, who knows? I just find a lot of the views on this board very depressing!

What makes you think the next owner will be any better than the current one? *Simple question to answer, if the next owner is not better than the current one, then we chase them out of town as well. For me it's about setting standards as a set of fans of what we will tolerate. For example do you think Liverpool fans would put up with what we've had to go through the last few years? Dennis Wise as DOF??? What do you classify as being treat with common decency? *For starters not having a owner, chairman and manager who either say nothing or come out with a right load of rubbish. Try to communicate with the fans rather than treat them with contempt. Who said you're not a fan if you don't support the team? *I've seen that on here by a few people, in numerous threads I've seen people say that "if you stop supporting the team then you're not a real supporter". What do you classify as not standing up for ourselves? *Basically what we're doing now, all I hear fans say is lets support the team. Where has that got us and who in the team deserves out support? That's why I'd like to see more organised demonstrations to show people that we've had enough. How is the club ours? *How is the club ours? Easy one to answer as we are the people who put the money into the club, without the fans the club would be nothing. Without Ashley the club would still exist, without the manager the club would still exist, without the players the club would still exist. How is relegation going to help us? *Could be a fresh start, as I mentioned earlier it's about setting standards. How is boycotting club merchandise or tickets going to help? *It will show the club that they can no longer take us for granted, a sign that we've had enough. I'm not going to get into lengthy emails but just to clarify my thoughts a little bit. As a club we've now gone over 50 years without winning a single domestic trophy and throughout that time the fans have done nothing but support the team. We've had consecutive owners who have mismanaged the club so badly it’s hard to believe! In my view the unconditional support that the team gets is one of the reasons why we’ve never fulfilled our potential. It just makes the club ripe for exploitation as an owner knows that the fans are going to support the team regardless of how well the club is managed. Look over the last few years, we’ve had Souness, Roeder and Kinnear. The reaction of most fans has been to give them a chance and support the team even though nearly everyone knew deep down that it was never going to work! Would it not have been better for the club if as a group of fans to have protested and said no way to these managers? Whoever was in charge of the club would soon come to realise that they’d have to think carefully about what decisions they made as they could no longer rely on the fans acting like sheep which is what we’ve mostly done over the last 50 years, myself included!! As I mentioned earlier in my answer to one of your questions it’s all about setting standards and for too long we’ve settled for second best without doing anything about it. So I think as a set of fans we need to break this chain of unconditional support to the team/club and demonstrate when the club is plainly being badly ran. Lets have some accountability! If this meant relegation, so be it because I think in the long run it would be for the benefit of the club. If as a set of fans we changed our mind set and let the powers in charge know when we’re not happy, they would soon up their act as they would know that they could no longer count us to keep supporting the club come what may! Obviously any new owner is not going to get every decision right, but it would be good to know that the club has at least tried to make a good decision for the benefit of the club which hasn’t always been the case.

"cut your nose off, despite your face" You could call it that or you could call it standing up for yourself and saying enough is enough!

I said a week ago in another thread I hope there's loads of protests and if that resulted in relegation, so be it! The premiership is not all that it’s cracked up to be anyway! I'd rather be a set of fans who don't stand for being walked over than a set of fans who settle for Premiership survival at the expense of their pride! Would you let anyone else treat you as Ashley has since he's owned the club? Not only is he embarrassing the club but also the city and region! Before people say back the club/team, where has that ever got us? Anyone who says that should read the book which marked NUFC's history since we last won a domestic cup! Various owners over the years have done nothing but treat the fans with contempt! This has got to end! Also the club is not Ashley's, the club belongs to the fans, and in my view NUFC is nothing but the fans! So I'd rather get relegated if that meant Ashley left and we got in a decent owner who would know he'd have to treat the fans with respect. It would also be a chance to finally move on, the new owners and fans together! Also for anyone who says you’re not a real fan if you don’t support the team, well at this moment in time I think supporting the club is more damaging long term as it just allows people to get away with conning the fans! I just think it would be a watershed in NUFC’s history as I don’t think the fans have ever stood up for themselves! I'm not after millions being spent or anything but just want to be treat with common decency!!

You are right, and that is what it took to get rid of McKeag in the end...all this 'get behind the lads' stuff is old hat from the 50s when they really DID get behind them because they had a good side who tried their hearts out. Ashley & Co are only interested in the dosh - if they thought they were going to get another financial caning, they'd soon get their finger out.. Door-mats get trodden on.... so they don't think we'd get a financial caning by getting relegated ? the irony being that the best we've done in the league post war was under the control of others who were in it for the dosh............made loads-risked little. Just to reiterate my original post I really don't care about the financial aspect of things as I think there's more important things in life. As I said in my original post we are being taken for mugs on a grand scale by all parties, for example the lack of communication by the board is disgraceful! So I'd happily take relegation if that was the result of the fans protesting, at least we would have some pride and show people that we won't be taken for granted! How can any self-respecting person support anyone related to NUFC is beyond me as none of them give a toss about the club.

I personally hope the fans do protest I really don't care if that results in us getting relegated. In my opinion the pride of the Newcastle fans/city is more important than what division the team is in! At the moment we're getting the p*ss taken out of us by the players, manager and board and I'd rather make a stand against that than anything else! To show people that we're no mugs and have pride in ourselves! I would quite happily take relegation if it meant these jokers being kicked out of town!

Funny thing I find about young players is the sheer lack of quality North of the M62. After Shearer I can't think of one world class player to have come through at any club who was born North of the M62. Only player I can think of that it would apply to is Woodgate if he had of been fit during his career. Previous to the last 15 years, I don't think I'm wrong to use world class to describe, Dalglish, Souness, Bryan Robson, Waddle, Beardsley, Gazza and Shearer During this time there's been a good few players who have come through in the North West area who you could class as world class such as Rooney, Gerrard, Scholes and Owen (when he first came on the scene!). Hopefully it's all cyclical and we'll have some good youngsters come through soon!

We'll see about that, I'm sure Keegan thought there would be money too!!

I don't see why so many people rate this guy on here, you don't need to be an expert in football to spot two current Argentinean Internationals!! It's not like they've gone and got someone like Zaki who is much less known. The jury is well and truly out on the other buys! Also who ever was responsible for player recruitment wants shooting for not getting in another central midfielder!! Also goes to show in my opinion the power of spin in our society today! Ashley comes out with this visionary structure when in truth it's no different to Fat Fred's relationship with Paul Stretford the agent who also has extensive contacts throughout the football world! Maybe Fat Fred should have just given Stretford a more fancy title!

The irony is thats exactly the sort of image we should be portraying publicly, as this is what investors want to see. If you want an investor he has to see some sort of return. Gullible, spend-happy supporters who love to bend over and take it from behind is the ideal profile for an investor. A militant, incoherent supporter base is exactly the opposite of what they are looking for. Does anyone still think there is no connection with the turmoil/protests and poisonous atmosphere at the club and the lack of willing buyers? I don't think there's any connection what so ever between he protests and lack of buyers (though we don't know how many people are really interested), anyone with an ounce of knowledge about football would know that they wouldn't have to do much to get the supporters back onside. Even through this period when it is as bad I can remember and that includes pre-premier league we are still pulling in 40,000+ crowds.

Looks like I'm the only one who supports the actions of NUSC! Good to see some supporters doing something for a change, we've had years of mismanagement at the Toon which is really highlighted when you read the book about us not winning anything for 50 years (forgot the title!)!! How people can blame the protesters for a situation where we are now on our third manager under Ashley's reign and ended up in a situation where we've got Dennis Wise as DOF and Joe Kinnear as manager is baffling!!! Not to mention the squad being terrible!! Oh yes I forgot the great structure he put in place ended up with us getting two Argentinean Internationals, though did we really need this new “continental structure” to help us identify two current Argentinean Internationals??? Surely any club with a basic scouting system would have identified them! Not really too bothered what NUSC do to be honest but I’m pleased they are protesting in some way and also pleased that the crowds are down as at least as a fan of Newcastle I can have some self respect! Yes this may be to the detriment of the club for now but I’m sick of putting up with complete mismanagement over the years and seeing the fans turn out to support them regardless!! We just look like idiots who’ll take any old rubbish and still turn up at the match which is what the majority of fans have done over the years, me included!!! Also for all those people saying Ashley has been forced out by the protesters, not many people are happy about his handling of SportsDirect at the moment but I don’t see him trying to sell up there! You don’t get to where he is in the world without being able to take some flack and see things out!!

Well so far I have determined there is one reason the posters don't like them; they're Nigerian. Basically Nigeria is one of the most corrupt countries in the world to do business. I've worked with organisations from many different parts of Africa and I've only ever had trouble in Nigeria. Other people I know who have worked in Africa all say the same thing. I'm not saying that all Nigerians are the same as I've met some really decent people but the country is in a mess. Just look at these two articles for example to see what I mean: http://www.economist.com/world/mideast-africa/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12267373 http://www.economist.com/world/mideast-africa/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11975488

Before this all blew up I was going to raise the issue of whether Ashley was just turning us into a feeder club. But then bidding for Modric and signing Coloccini doesn't really suggest that. I think we could have signed more players before the summer window closed but the impression I get is that Keegan only wanted players of a certain quality/players he'd heard of. I thought the same as you but now I'm not too certain about whether we really did bid for Modric, was it the same sort of bid that we made for Rooney? I know it's a different board now but did we really try to get him? With regards to players of certain quality, it would not have been too difficult to get better players than what we have in central midfield! I would hardly say Gutherie and the new guy are world beaters.

I can't really figure out why everyone is so happy about Ashley, football wise he hasn't a clue! And that's where it really matters, could someone please give me an example of a good football decision he's made? Kept with Allardyce/failed to back him. Take your pick on that one but either way he screwed up! Wanted to appoint Redknapp as manager. Showed a complete lack of ambition in three transfer windows Apointed the wrong manager for the structure he wanted. Anyone with an ounce of knowledge about football would have known Keegan wouldn't be happy with the new structure! Appointed Dennis Wise to the board, I'm sure there's much more qualified people than him who could do the job. Just think Ashley's first choice set up at the club would have been Redknapp and Wise! Said there's money there when there blatantly isn't. Actions speak louder than words and if we had the money then it wouldn't be too difficult to get a better central midfielder than Butt or Gutherie. No point mentioning Barton as who knows when he will play again. Also with regards to the new guy they've bought, well lets see how well he does but the fact we've got him on loan says it all! Our two Central midfielder purchases this summer has been Liverpool's 8th choice central midfielder and a loan from Valencia! Also with regards to the new structure, we need to bare in mind two things! It's far too early to judge the new players, even though some people already seem to think they're the bees knees! Other point related to the new structure is that what we're trying to do can't be done anymore. By far the most successful club to develop young players is Arsenal and even they are now starting to struggle in recent seasons. As soon as you develop a young player one of the bigger clubs will come in for them! As a club you need to be prepared to spend big money if you want to do anything and Ashley just won't do that. Can't say I blame him as I wouldn't lay out the money either but at the same token I wouldn't have been stupid enough to have bought a football club if I wasn't prepared to do that!

I'm really pleased Keegan has done what he has today because the bloke has too much integrity to keep on being a PR machine for Ashley. I was starting to lose a lot of respect for Keegan as he was starting to insult the intelligence of the fans. To be repeatedly told that money is there but it's hard to find quallity players doesn't sit with the facts. For example do people truly believe that we couldn't have got better central midfielders than what we already have if money was there? Butt is past it, Guthrie is OK and who knows when we'll see Barton in the team! Yeah we got the guy from Valencia but he's hardy got fantastic credentials! The sooner Ashley goes the better because since day one he's been pretty clueless with regards to the football side of things!! No ambition what so ever in the transfer market, Harry Redknapp as first choice before Keegan, and the recruitment of Dennis Wise!!! Says it all really!!