alpal78

To be fair to HTL, u were asking for it right there. Its like handing him a gun and saying shoot me blueyes.gif

No, I'll just create loads of pointless topics and get banned. I'm only joking of course, nobody is daft enough to do that, are they? Not to mention then complain about it on their own little forum blueyes.gif Btw NE5, you might want to know that Norther Monkey is back despite his promises to stay away

Sometimes you make good posts mate, but this has been said before, what do you consider failure ? Would you rather we had won the League Cup and been relegated and struggled for most of the time like the smoggies than have the decades in europe etc that we have ? I consider not winning trophies a failure. No, I wouldn't like to be like the Smoggies but that doesn't mean that I can't be disappointed with our current position and the fact that we haven't won a trophy since the UEFA one is the late 60s. It also doesn't mean that we should 'settle' for this position. Last thing, this also doesn't mean that my support has waned over the years or my expectations are too high. True, I may have been spoiled by Keegan's reign but that's because I started supporting 'us' during that time, but yet, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't aim to be the very best. Why settle? You aren't half so pissed of as me we haven't won a trophy mate, I've lived through the [mostly] shite since 1969. We all want to be top, nobody is settling for 2nd best, it just seems to me that some of you expect an ambitous board as a right. It simply doesn't work like that, there are lots of clubs who are taken over by bean counters and unambitous people who don't have the courage to sometimes be bold, which if successful taps the fanbase. I keep pointing out these clubs, who have been more successful than us in the past, and fell a damn sight lower when they changed, or made bad decisions. We have a board who desperately want the club to be successful, believe me there are a lot of clubs who settle for mediocrity and we could easily become the same, again. You should be looking at those clubs that have been and remain successful, instead of harping on about there are a lot worse off than us. Anyway, back on topic .... John There are people here who, for some reason, are only willing to compare the Board against the one of SJH's time. It's all they know. Of course the club has gone backwards since then, the players you listed in your earlier post highlighted that clearly. Nobody is disputing that. Nobody is saying that we shouldn't be comparing current/recent performance against clubs we're trying to catch, because we want to catch them. Nobody is saying they're happy we've won nowt, I've never said that the current Board is great and has made no mistakes, of course they've made mistakes. So have Board's of other clubs, including those were now trying to catch....again. I don't know what gets into people's heads on this forum when it comes to people making comments about previous decades in the club's history. I've nowt against people who started going to matches in the 90's, my own son did 'cos that's when he became old enough. The people who started going in the early 90's when SJH was Chairman and KK manager should realise that they've seen some great football, we've come close and the disappointment is huge for everbody. What these people don't want to listen to is that those of us who have put up with winning nowt for decades haven't even had the pleasure of watching a decent team, a team that was good enough to even come close. That was life under a shite Board. It could easily go back to being like that. That's all the thread is about, trying to get across to people that it wouldn't be automatic that any replacement for the current lot would be an improvement. Making that statement doesn't mean I'm happy, doesn't mean I don't want improvement and doesn't mean I think the present lot are fantastic and that they couldn't be bettered. It makes me laugh that some appear to think that's what I'm saying, they couldn't be more wrong, I'm desperate for us to win something, to win the league sometime in my lifetime. My disappointment that we've won nowt is absolutely huge, I suspect I'm going to die without seeing us win another trophy, which is something I thought right through until SJH turned the club around. Then we took off and I believed we would do it, to say I'm gutted that we haven't doesn't even come close. The present Board show the ambition ( whether they have the ability is another question ) and want the club to win things. By replacing them there is every chance it could be worse and some of us don't want to go back there. It is shite. All I'm saying is that those who want the current Board removed should be careful what they wish for. Very sensible and balanced though I'm not sure NE5 agrees with all of that

He must be, because Luque is the GREATEST striker in the world, and anyone who saw him last season and though the was very poor is WRONG, He must be GREAT, he has a showreel, and everything. Come on Albert, show us how FANTASTIC you are. I thought u didnt want to post here anymore? Should I continue posting so that you'd actually bang ur head with the keyboard as you told NE5

He wasnt to be fair. He was gash and danced around a Mickey Mouse defender and slotted it past a Minnie Mouse keeper. I doubt Luque would be able to skip around Andy OBrien like that. Yes the same mickey mouse defender and minnie mouse keeper who our other players could not get the better off.

Didn't see that coming http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/3726/dragonparrothd9.jpg

But why should he get a clear run of games when he has been horrible in training and has no heart to play for us??? Now you see the thread was going along quite nicely until you decided to act the penis. was gonna come sooner or later, I'd might as well do it myself on their behalf, at least people will know that I'm joking. Anyway like I said, its good that he seems to be getting some support from Roeder and team mates. Some fans are warming up to him as well, though I suspect some never will. Not sure what will happen to him if/when we buy a new striker. I dont want to start the season with just Luque and Ameobi as our only striker, but I also know that if a new striker comes in, Luque will surely be dropped as Roeder is a fan of Ameobi. Btw dont use "penis" in a derogatory way, in my vocab "act the penis" means top post blueyes.gif

But why should he get a clear run of games when he has been horrible in training and has no heart to play for us??? Anyway good to hear that Roeder, Seamus and Nobby all making the right noise.

Oh no u're not the only one. Lots of people on this forum has pointed out his contradictions and inconsistencies and not just on Luque. Go read some of the other threads especially anything involving Shepherd and the board and you will see what I mean. His standard reply to your remarks above would be along the lines of "surely you dont think Roeder should come out and say that Luque was crap in training". My response would then be, no we dont expect Roeder to do that, but equally he does not need to praise Luque if he is not working hard in training. Afterall Roeder doesnt say much about Bramble, Solano, Zoggy training hard, so he could do the same for Luque too. Even in the instance, the interviewer asked Roeder specifically bout Luque, he could say Luque is training just like the others which is neutrel. For Roeder to come out and say not only once that Luque has been working hard and doing extra trainings suggests exactly that unles someone wants to accuse Roeder of lying that is. And after that, the debate never progresses as he has never given a response to that. Its funny, he tries to to justify his own conclusion based on Roeder's unexplained actions (which nobody here knows the exact reasons for) yet finds excuses to not believe Roeder's clear interviews which requires no intrepretation.

True, but just as likely he could come good if given a chance, no? I believe (just my opinion mind) that if he gets a good run in the team he'll start repaying some of that fee back. Maybe but I think there's less chance of him coming good. Just my opinion like. Hope I'm wrong or we at least get some decent cash for him. From what I've seen of him though, I'm not even sure where he should play exactly, seems like a luxury player without enough end product. I think the chances of him succeeding are slim as well, sadly. I can't see a place for him in the team at the moment for him to get that run of games to prove himself or otherwise. As much as I want to see him succeed and for us to get some value for our money out of him, I concede we would probably be better off cutting our losses because the only way he's going to show he's a 9.5m player is by starting every game in his natural position (whatever that is ) and unless we fail to bring in the strikers we badly need or a major injury happens to N'Zogbia or Duff, I can't see that happening. The criticism from some fans and the local media is way OTT however in my opinion and the whole feeling towards Luque since he arrived from some leaves a sour taste in the mouth that makes me wonder why we even try to sign foreign players because at the first sign of trouble they become "heartless, money grabbing bastards". I'm also of the opinion that should we peddle Luque for a big loss, that will send out a negative message to prospective foreign transfer targets not to come to Newcastle unless they have a Geordie nana or something. Ah, well... It could be worse, we could have had Shearer, Given and Rob Lee asking for transfers in their prime because they saw the club going nowhere except downwards. Still, we could have replaced them with kevin Kyle, Richard Wright and that lad Jamie McGlen is coming through from the youth teams, then pocket the change. Why is it a Geordie nana ? Will she be knitting her Geordie scarves for everyone in the trophy stadium ? Anyone but Shepherd eh. Thought you weren't coming back? Place is full of kids, tossers and foreigners? Mature replies rather than this could still yet raise your standards a bit Maturity like this you mean? http://z3.invisionfree.com/NUFCforum/index.php?showtopic=1900 Keep contradicting yourself Wow! I'm honoured to be mentioned in another forum by two 'adults' who instead of engaging with me, prefer to talk behind my back like a bunch of girls Maybe I should have posted more so that Northern Monkey would have beaten himself to death with his laptop, that would have been a service to this forum given the sort of rubbish he posts anyway blueyes.gif

Footsoldier, honest question. Since you dont think how a player perform in a foreign league should be used as a yardstick of his talent, do you reckon that our scouts should stop looking overbroad then as all they ever get to see is their performances in foreign leagues? Our scouts' decisions and recommendsations are based on exactly what you deem to be of no value.

Good post I reckon. Except for the bit on not pressuring defenders. Anyone who attended the game against Lillestrom saw that the only good thing both Luque and Milner were doing in the first half was putting pressure on their defenders. As for the Sunderland goal, yes he was fortunate in the way the ball ended up at his feet, but he showed good composure and kept the ball under control eventhough the ball kept bouncing off the pitch (watch the goal again). My point is simple, if we get a decent offer (for me >5M), then ok sell him (even if that will be harsh on him), otherwise we cant afford to loose our asset cheaply. Yes there is that possibility that his value will drop further the longer we keep him, but equally there is the possibility that he will come good and his value will appreciate and judging from recent performances, its more likely to be the latter. By all means he was one of the top 3 players against Lillestrom, dont believe me? go check the player rating thread of everyone who went for that game. Yes one game does not make a season, but I'm not using that game to say that he is world class, I'm using it as a positive indicator that things will most likely improve if he stays. Besides, hypothetically lets say we get a bid of say 3M, how much lower can it get for him by January. Even if in the most extreme case, his value drop to 1M, then we would have lost 2M extra for keeping him, balanced against the lilkely possibility that things will improve. On the other hand if we sell him now for 3M, we are guaranteed to loose 6.5M compared to his buying price. Yes wages is a factor, but if we sell him now, we'll definitely be buying an extra player which would more or less be on the same wages, so thats a write off for me. I have to agree with Grass, that some of the comments (not necessarily on this forum) I've heard of people who wants him out probably has a bit if not a lot to do with the fact that he is a foreigner (doesnt help that Marcelino was Spanish as well) and that he doesnt play football the 'British' way. Just look at Millner who has had far more opportunities playing for us than Luque and under a good manager too (Bobby) and yet more people would prefer to keep him than Luque. Yes I'm sure there are many factors involved but I bet one of them is that he is English (at least for some people), and thats a disgrace for a club who strives to be international much like the big 4.

Why? It doesn't matter that he did **** all last season, why should it matter if he does **** all between now and January? He should be binned asap. well considering he had an injury like he did I don't think there are many players playing today who would recover and do a lot more, so I don't see your point! He'd recovered by Xmas from that first injury, fancy expecting him to do something in those last 5 months of the season eh? In the few games or so he got? Lets not forget either that all but Shay and Parker were playing absolute shite until Souness left, only then did others pick up their game. Under Roeder however Luque never got a chance, when he has, he's scored twice in what amounts to 4 starts or something. Footballers have to do something during the week between games. Despite everyone else picking up following the departure of souness, Luque didn't pick up and probably wasn't doing whatever Roeder was expecting from him day to day, otherwise he would have featured more than he did. If you don't agree please have a guess why you think Luque wasn't an automatic choice, given that he is WORLD CLASS. Why did Roeder praise him for his training, then? I just think Roeder doesn't fancy him that much in any position, managers do that rightly or wrongly. I think you are reading too much into his non-selection under Roeder likewise those that claim Roeder has a personal problem with him. I don't think he does, I just think he doesn't like what he sees or sees a place for him in the team. SBR didn't really fancy Bowyer in the middle for some reason, Souness didn't fancy Milner for some reason. It happens. You expect him to come out in public and say he's shit in training? Or just shit anyway? Do you always hang off what these people say as though every word that comes out of their mouth is the truth? Bloody hell! :roll: or are you dumb enough that you cant imagine the 3rd option of Roeder not saying anything about it. He does not need to say Luque is shit, but equally he does not need to praise him if he is shit.

No-one is claiming he doesn't need to up his own game or show more heart though Gemmill, you'd have to be blind to not recognise this need yet those wanting us to get rid of him ASP (to write off more money - these are the same people who criticise the club for wasting money ironically) simply won't recognise the numerous factors that have contributed to his case like the injury, adapting to a new country, a new game culture, the Souness factor and quite revealing a lack of games, or a run of games. Lets be honest he didn't arrive in the best of shape having only played a few games in FOUR months. He had no pre-season to talk of and in his 2nd outing he picked up one of the worst injuries a professional athlete could sustain - a grade one tear to the hamstring. He himself admitted for a good while after his recovery he lacked the confidence to push himself in fear of it going again, added to that problem he was struggling to adapt to a new country, a new language and a new way of life and the team and manager were underperforming and losing matches on a weekly basis. When he did feature after his injury he wasn't the only player to underperform or look disinterested. Then Souness went, we started playing better and winning games, yet Luque never played. Towards the end he got a bit of an outing and in those minutes which amount to a few starts he scored 2 goals and looked a lot better, even showing some heart. All the "pro" Luque brigade are saying is give the lad a chance before writing him off completely, lets see if he can do it after 10-15 games or something. I don't want to see him fail or for the club to cut their losses on yet another big money gamble so I agree with the "lets see", lets give him a run of games" argument. As a manager it is Roeder's duty to try and get Luque performing, of course he himself has to show a desire and has to put in a shift or two but I'd be disappointed if the club just peddled him because they couldn't be arsed with all that, but that's what they get paid for, to work with players, to iron out any problems and to get them playing and playing well. Anyway that's the way I see it. Top post! Nobody is saying he is world class so there is no point in you exaggerating Gemmil. What people are saying is that we should wait a bit more to see if he can fulfil his potential and the latest few recent matches has shown positive signs of improvement. The point is we are not f*cking rich to just write of assets at a loss, unless we get a Russian billionaire soon, we cant just buy players and then sell them off for a loss before we even ascertain whether they can fulfil their potential. If after 10- 15 games, we dont see any improvement, then I have no problem selling him off in January, until then its just poor finance keeping, something that our club cant afford (literally) to do. I’m not so much on the pro Luque brigade (although I’d like him to be given a chance), more like opposed to the ‘lets waste our money coz we delude ourselves in thinking that we are bloody rich’ brigade.

if he is to be sold, then I hope it will be in excess of 5M, otherwise its poor man management by Roeder and poor decision making by the board as we dont have the money to sell our asset at lower par value. If we cant get a decent deal, then we should hold on to him, play him when we need to, hope that he improves (which I'm confident he will), then sell him later once his value appreciates.

NE5, I appreciate the fact that you've pointed out that the current board is an improvement from those in the 70s, but since we are doing comparisons, one simple question, do you not think that the club under Shepherd's chairmanship has taken a few steps backwards since the height of SJH's tenure? Yes or no and why? I notice when you talk of improvements, you always mention Shepherd's chairmanship along with SJH's. To me thats a sneaky tactic to make them seem the same and transfer some credit from SJH's to Shepherd's time and avoid comparing the two. You are more than welcomed to do another cop out and say that you will ignore my post, in which case I wont blame you really.

bluesigh.gif get a grip man. Nobody has said he feigned an injury. What people are saying is that some players will play through the pain barrier and others won't. I'm no fan of Ameobi (i think he's shit to be homest) but fair play to the kid he always soldiers on regardless of injuries or illness. Luque on the other hand is a great talent, possibly not suited to the English game and also seems not to want to push himself that bit extra when required ie he won't play through the pain barrier regardless of how light on numbers we are up front. If you have blisters on ur feet, u'll find it almost impossible to run much less play football

Evidence that only very few people like you see tbh

Doesn't have the intelligence of Scholes for that role. Sorry 2J, you must be thinking of Scholes in the year 2003/2004. Any of our current midfielders (yes including Lampard) will play better than Scholes in the hole behind the main striker. Scholes was awful last year and his form would have suffred even more with the long term lay off.

The same Shearer who was absolutely shocking for the past two years? somehow i think not. I dont think both should go, my point is if we are taking Scholes, based on previous performance for a position that England is not lacking in, then Shearer would do a better job given Owen's injury and Rooney's suspension.

No way, good in his days but way past his best, and its not like we are short of midfielders. If we taking players based on past performance, Shearer would do a better job to be honest.

Cant see whats wrong with that tbh, provided one accepts that he is merely speculating. We do that everytime when we say things like "Souness is gonna get us relegated". One should not blame Roeder if the speculation does not come true but if it does (in my case Luque being sold for less than 3mil), then I dont see why Roeder should be exempted.

If we sell Luque for less than 3M, because Roeder is holding grudges either from last season or from this latest game, then its shit management tbh. Its Souness V Bellamy all over again, not the same proportion but same shit man management nevertheless. Cant see why Luque would feign an injury, he looked pleased scoring last week and by all accounts must have fancied himself yesterday.

Can I just say that the last two posts by Bob and Mick are very sensible despite being contrary and its refreshing to read without the usual vitriol and condescending remarks

YEah, the game of football is fundamentally different here, so he coudln't be expected to show even a couple of individual hints that he was such a great player, could he? i mean, the ball is a different shape, the grass is 2 ft shorter, and the pitches are totoally different. Its a different sportm pretty much, and we shouldn't expect a supposedly top player to be actually any good for at least 2 seasons. No the game is the same, but its difficult to do much especially for a forward player when you only get to play the last 10-5 mins of a game when the game has either been lost or when the team is defending a lead and not interested in attacking anymore. When he did score against Sunderland, he was promptly dropped fron the squad all together in the next game. As for your two seasons comment, I have no idea what you mean??? his 2nd season has barely started and in any case it started well for him, 1 goal in 1 game with good overall play.