stalker

I also got the feeling watching the Derby we were back in the 80s.

 

It was worse. I remember Keegan taking Newcastle to Roker Park and they huffed and puffed for 90 mins but we picked them off and won 2-1 because we had class players like Ginola and Beardsley and they had a team of Kevin Nolans. This time they had Cisse and Jones, we had carroll and Shola.

 

Wrong decade man.

 

I know but that was what was going through my mind watching on Sunday.

 

You were comparing us challenging for the top of the table compared to now. That's just plain daft, we've not been in the position for years. If your hopes are that high you need to drag them back down to the earth quick smart as this won't change over night.

 

What we had then and what I expect now are totally different things. I am quite happy to see us spend wisely and follow the Wenger blueprint. I don't see any evidence of it though. We have a temporary manager who has over-stayed his welcome and looks to be recruiting footballers a million miles from Wenger's preferred types. The Tony Pulis blueprint would be a better description.

 

What looks to be to be happening is the board ballsed up at the start of the season. We were then left with no manager wanting to take the job. JK was given the job. He took over and the club was already up s*** creek. It was decided due to the debts the manager would be given £10m cash to spend, this was spent not buy the right people though that was the mistake. We got to January we had another £10m to spend but needed to cut the wage bill because it was to high hence losing all the money. Seems to be a massive clear up will happen this summer with loads of players going and coming in basically to sort the wage bill out. Once that is done the club will be self sufficient and money can be spent to improve the squad keeping the wage bill around the 50% mark. Forget the whole wenger blueprint, that all starts at the youth end of things.

Why do you think anyone was ever given any cash to spend? We've run a surplus

Can't be bothered to read the entire thing but £17.8 million of our £20million pre tax loss is the down valuing of players as assets on the clubs books. I know this is perfectly legal but am I right in thinking therefore in real money outgoings the pretax loss is only about £3 million quid?

And am I also right in thinking that even as the original poster says that these are the costs spread over the players contracts that their whole original costs are already included in the debts?

People need to realise that thee strengthof the squad isnt the issue here, its the man in charge that is, Wise has done his job and in my opinion has done it well, we've added qulaity to the team but i defy most people who'd claim that any other team in the premiership wouldnt struggle with the injuries we're having, theres obvious exceptions, like Man U and Chelseas but we are in no position to be comparing ourselves with them.

 

Imagine in Wigan had the same amount of injuries as us.

 

The only single issue that can be atrributed to our current slump is the man incharge, thats the key to this whole thing.

Just considering the strength of the squad:

GK- Given, Harper, Krul, Forster: very strong

FB- Beye, Enrique: One player for each position, hardly a strong squad and was also something Keegan constantly mentioned in the summer

CB- Collocini, Taylor, Bassong, Cacapa, Edgar: Several players but Taylor and Bassong are both still young, sale of Faye seems ridiculous now although I do accept that it was Keegan who fell out with him

CM- Butt, Barton, Guthrie, Geremi: Butt has been fading for few seasons now and obviously needs replacing, Barton was in prison at start of season, Guthrie was a good addition, Geremi requires no comment

Wingers- Jonas, Duff, N'Zogbia: 3 players for two postions, one of whom is constantly injured, sale of Milner was ridiculous

Strikers- Owen, Martins, Viduka, Shola, Carrol, Xisco- Looks good on paper but in reality the experienced 4 of the 6 are more at home in the physioroom than on the pitch

I accept that Kinnear is completely clueless and that a talented manager with this squad might have done a lot better. However, to say Wise has done a good job is giving him far more credit than he deserves.

I think he's got a fair point TBH, I love Keegan as much as anyone but he can't come out of this mess without his share of the blame. We would all be better off if he had just put the club before himself and stuck it out.

His share of the blame is fairly minimal though. Yes if he'd stayed as manager we would have probably had a lot more points but he knew that this was a squad not capable of really achieving anything. He'd also been lied to by bosses and had to put up with a little muppet like Wise buying him s*** players and selling his good players from underneath him.

From what I know a large reason why Keegan left last time was because the control of transfers had effectively been taken off him by Freddy Shepherd (rumours were he never really wanted shearer cos he knew it meant he had to sell Ferdinand the next summer to fund the second installment of the transfer).

I'll always love KK and while he might be partly responsible for us going down, its a very very small part.

Simple fact is that Wise's job is to provide Newcastle with a squad that is capable of performing well in the Premiership, both now and in the future. It appears very clear that he has been unable to do that.

Why the hell would Shearer jeopardise his own future as a manager by taking on a sinking ship which Wise and Ashley seem to revel in putting more holes in. Would not be surprised to see Given and N'zogbia leave and no one come else come in this transfer window.

Can i ask , would people take a 3-0 loss if it meant Kinnear got the sack tommorow ala Souness sacking after his 3-0 loss against them ?

 

No.

 

unlike Souness I don't think JK will be here next season regardless of where we finish

Plus Souness picked a team to intentionally get himself the sack, he played Lee Clark having not played him for ages

I'd go with the True Faith question, if Kinnear is the answer, what is the question?

He's an exceptional young manager whose team play very attractive football, they've passed some of the big championship teams off the park this season. Somehow can't see him coming in to work under a muppet like Ashley though, think he has a bit more self respect that, as does every manager in the world bar Kinnear.

In all honesty if £14 million was on the table I'd be disappointed if it didn't go through.  IMO we need that money spent in other area's and I'm totally confident in Harper's ability.

 

I agree. Surely a club as rich as City wouldn't be daft enough to offer one of the best keepers out there in Shay, a less contract than he deserves? With Harper signing, these snags will be worked out and Given will no doubt leave soon.

 

Its going to utterly heart-wrenching for me but I'm brutually honest, I don't think we've deserved a keeper of his class for so long after all the broken promises we've made to him. 11 years is an incredible amount of time and if anyone deserves to evaluate whats best for him, its Shay.

 

Our mismanagement and just downright circus-like antics over the years have taken their toll and this is what you have to deal with as a consequence.

I'll shed a tear I'm sure but hes been a model professional for us and I'd wish him all the best.

Agree with the sentiments but I just don't trust that the money will be spent, rather have Given on the pitch than another £14 million in fat Ashley's pockets. Still Given deserves to go if he wants to

should he have a testamonial?

 

I would say that he should. I'm not terribly happy about the manner in which he's leaving, but 10 years at the club deserves a testimonial. He's been a great player for us on and off the pitch.

Definitely deserves one but can't remember a testimonial for a player who has moved on to a "bigger" club, rather than downward as would more usually be the case for aging players. Given all his charity work as well would be sure he wouldn't want to keep any of the money for himself.

....Oh, and I forgot(how could I!?) ; Shepherd fired SBR in SEPT - just after the Transfer window closed in 2004, so the next manager couldn't sign players until Jan.....

Seem to recall he did the same with Souness. Sadly we're treated like crap all the time, doesn't mean we should ever accept it.

Very sensible move IMO. With our Premiership status nowhere near secure it wouldn't be wise to sign players up on a long-term contract. IF we get relegated we'd probably have to sell the guy anyway. Let's wait until we know which league we'll be playing in, assess if he's good enough between now and the end of the season, and then make a decision

I understand the point of view but it reminds me of the Distin situation, hopefully he's not as much of a mercenary

Cause they're whinging surrender monkeys!   (Oh and before any of you jump on a racist bandwagon then that last bit is not aimed at black players)

 

Would agree with this, surely we're all just being xenophobic not racist.

 

Oh, that's ok then, racism only applies to blacks.

 

FFS.

 

in this case it does surely?  whinging surrender monkey would be a slight on their culture, not their race i'd suggest

 

people often confuse racism with other things

Would agree with this, surely we're all just being xenophobic, not racist.

Someone better than what we've got. Why? Why the hell would they come here when we're knee-deep in this s****? Maybe on a loan, aye - but who the f*** is going to commit themselves to a long-term contract who is - like i say, an improvement on what we have?

 

People really need to lessen their expectations of this window or there's going to be some burst blood vessels on the morning of Feb 2nd.

 

Even though fighting for survival, Newcastle is still in a fantastic league, has a massive fan base, pays ridiculous wages and is surrounded with just as much glamour as any club outside the top 4. The club is in no worse position to attract players than Fulham were last winter, and they bought plenty. Many ambitious players in the lesser leagues would jump at the chance of joining the club.

Used to pay ridiculous wages, think thats changed. I wonder whether that affects our recruitment, not just the low wages but the fact that they're being offered wages so much lower than other players at the club who were signed in the previous era

probably not true but talk about fall from grace

 

Wigan and Bolton are chasing Manchester City and England defender Micah Richards for £5m. (The Sun)

 

---

 

again probably not true but if true, get him in

 

Blackburn manager Sam Allardyce is checking on Barcelona striker Eidur Gudjohnsen who could be available for £2m. (The Sun)

If the Richards thing is true we should try and get him in as part of the Given deal, I've always thought he was pretty good at right back.

With our hands tied in terms of transfer monies!

 

I wouldn't mind seeing us offloading Alan Smith to West Brom in a swap deal with Ishmael Miller.

 

Always been impressed with that lad each time i've seen him and only 21.

He's out injured for the rest of the season, so would be an ideal replacement for Smith

What would happen to a player who had such bad disciplinary problems? Got to admit he sets a brilliant example to everyone else at the football club.

you have to question the logic of naming a transfer target before we bid (M'bia) but not naming two players whose clubs have already sent them out on loan to us if we want them...

The terms "logic" and "Newcastle's transfer policy" do not go together

20 days into the transfer window and fck all.

 

Jesus wept man sort it f***ing out, the clubs prem status is at risk.

 

 

 

It is a cliche but it really is very, very difficult to sign players in this window. Even the deals people have been talking about for a while now haven't started to go through.

 

I appreciate that some clubs need signings more than others, and quickly, but if nobody is making the first move, nobody gets business done.

 

 

 

 

Yeah its especially difficult when you offer half of what the players are valued at by their clubs.

Got to love Joe Kinnear's motivational techniques, your not good enough and I want to get rid of you, now go out and play for me

Ashley's main problem is he values his friendship of Dennis Wise over the interests of the club.

 

For an astute businessman its amazingly short sighted of him to continue employing this little shitbag with absolutely no connection to the club whatsoever.

 

Wise is obviously more valuable to him than the tens of millions of pounds extra he would have got by selling a healthy club with a 50,000 pie eaters buying food every game.

Not sure how astute he is, certainly did well to build up Sports Direct but some of his recent decisions have shown him to be a bit of a muppet. Wonder how much the Sunday Times will value him at this year, think we're his biggest assed now

Did he actually say that he wouldn't be investing anything more? Honest question, I just didn't hear it.

I think his words were along the lines "I'm not prepared to fund the club anymore"

How on earth is it the Sunday Suns fault printing an article with a interview with Maradona about 2 Toon players .

Not quite my point, more the fact that they seem to have just made up an interview with Maradona about 2 toon players, used to made up stories in the press but dont get many where they make up full quotes from named individuals as well. As its unlikely Neil Farrington can get an interview with Maradona and the fact that these quotes hasn't been picked up anywhere else I am assuming he has just made them up.

I'm used to the Sunday Sun making up stories with no direct quotes and picking our supposed transfer targets out the air.  However, when they go so far as to make up quotes from Maradona you think they could at least do a little research on the matter, how hard could it be to find out that Collocini wasn't at the olympics!

http://www.sundaysun.co.uk/sport/newcastle-utd/newcastle-utd-news/2008/11/02/maradona-praises-united-s-argie-duo-79310-22165114/

Maradona praises United's Argie duo

Nov 2 2008 by Neil Farrington, Sunday Sun

FABRICIO COLOCCINI and Jonas Gutierrez tackle Aston Villa tomorrow walking on air — after words of praise from new Argentina coach Diego Maradona.

Newcastle’s South American duo have been paid a joint tribute by their new national boss, and promised the chance to become international regulars under his reign.

Maradona, who will take charge of his country for the first time against Scotland at Hampden Park on November 19, is already convinced of Coloccini’s credentials.

And the Argentinian legend has vowed to give Gutierrez a chance to prove himself against the Scots and in other forthcoming friendlies.

“Colo demonstrated his ability at the Olympics in Beijing and could be an international central defender for Argentina for a long time,” said Maradona. “I spent a few days in China with our Olympic team and Coloccini was well established in that group.”

Maradona added: “On Jonas, I have to evaluate him more, but the fact he is in England could be a very important help to him.

“I have watched him a few times and he is one of the key players that I want to study in the next friendly matches. He is quick, and could be very valuable to the game we want to play.”

There are suggestions that Maradona may even be at St James’s Park tomorrow night to run the rule over Coloccini and Gutierrez.

Gutierrez has made an incredible journey from paralysed toddler to Premier League star.

The Sunday Sun revealed back in July that “Spiderman” overcame paralysis down the left side of his body to secure an unlikely career.

And it has given Gutierrez a rare sense of perspective on the privileged lifestyle he now enjoys.

“I love the life of being a footballer. I appreciate everything I have. I have come a long way,” he said.

Meanwhile, Gutierrez is hoping for an amicable end to the dispute between Newcastle and former club Real Mallorca.

Mallorca are claiming £11.75 million in compensation for Gutierrez’s summer move, which he and United claim was a free transfer because he had bought himself out of his contract in Spain.

“It is complicated with Real Mallorca,” he said. “I am waiting for Newcastle to sort out the situation.”