Martin Lol

Not quite. I think you'll find "home-grown" means players they have developed themselves, but these do not have to be English if the club's English, French if it's French etc. Arsenal are way ahead of the pack here, and they'll still have a multinational squad. Arnesen is stepping on the gas at Chelsea though. They've signed 3 foreign kids in the past 10 days or so, Gael Kakuta from Lens being the latest. How old was Carrick when you picked him up? 22 getting close to 23. Carrick got the move he wanted, went about it the right way and as a result, will never get much flak whenever he returns to WHL. Got a lot of respect for him.

You can't have Krul on loan. There, I said it, you're stuck with "tubbycan'tgettoground" Robinson. And in response to MJ; I would say that it isn't that beneficial to be playing first team football as a keeper too early. You need to learn the game, learn how to organise a defence, when to come for crosses and when not to etc., etc. Before the age of 21 I wouldn't imagine there's a huge amount to be gained from first team football - if you go too young and make a couple of mistakes your confidence could be ruined for some time. Bear in mind Foster is 24. Foster is the same age as Cech who has been at the top for around 4/5 years, Casillas was 18 when he took over as no.1 at Real Madrid, and surely there is no greater pressure than that position for that club. Having confidence in your ability is very necessary for any player, not just goalkeepers, as is mental toughness when things do go wrong. From the little I've seen of Krul (and admittedly it is only a little) he looks to me to have all the attributes of being a top class keeper who would benefit from competitive matches. I would have thought he was ready to make the next step up.

Can't believe the Fools have sacked Coleman, and even less at this stage in the season. With what he's had to work with there, I'm amazed he managed to keep them up. I don't think they would have gone down this season either, but now, here's hoping!

Not quite. I think you'll find "home-grown" means players they have developed themselves, but these do not have to be English if the club's English, French if it's French etc. Arsenal are way ahead of the pack here, and they'll still have a multinational squad. Arnesen is stepping on the gas at Chelsea though. They've signed 3 foreign kids in the past 10 days or so, Gael Kakuta from Lens being the latest.

Surely he ought to be packed off for a season long loan with an average Championship team or a poor PL team. The point being you want him getting practice and experience, not watching the ball up the other end of the park. That thinking has done Ben Foster a lot of good.

But it's been like that practically all season. Hoyte rested, Walcott injured, the rest foreign. Henry says in the dressing room the players always speak English, on the training ground French is the prominent language. Says it all really.

I voted yes. Think they have the potential to be a decent team now and any team which makes the league better is ok imo. Got to be better than Watford ffs!

I think we'll simply have to disagree tbh, I think the course of action has to come before who will be seeing the course of action through. Santini would never have done as good a job as Jol, not because he is/was a lesser abled coach but because he didn't want to work with the constraints placed upon him by Arnesen and THFC. The straw which broke the camel's back was Santini wanting to buy an obscure French midfielder whose name I can't remember, Arnesen said no, I'm buying you Carrick instead. Carrick signed up and never once played for Santini before he left/resigned/was pushed. MJ took over and Carrick played every game after that, injuries allowing. That said, Jol is considered at WHL to be nothing more than decent, not great by any stretch of the imagination. Juande Ramos, Claude Puel or Alex Inglethorpe (who Comolli rates very highly) would probably be the preferred options to replace him although I do know that Allardyce has been mentioned as well. Whether Big Sam would want to work alongside a DoF I would say is hugely questionable. Of course the coach has a say in who he would like, but whether Comolli or Levy go along with that is another thing, but I don't think Comolli would force a player on a coach like Arnesen did. Jol would like us to go all out for Barton, Comolli has massive doubts about his temperament, Comolli is keen on Diouf (who is also keen on Spurs) but Jol doesn't fancy that at all. I don't think either of those will be seriously pursued. The other thing I think you're wrong with is the belief that just 2 clubs will continue to mop all the trophies up. Chelsea because there will be money to burn if necessary, Man Utd, Arsenal once the rebuilding is complete, that's 3 for a start. Add to that Liverpool with their new found dollars and new stadium and any team with the ambition to break into that group. Spurs have been up in the past and could be again with an enlarged stadium, Newcastle even more recently and even more possible for them to do it again. It's hard to look beyond those 6 (except possibly Everton) but with good direction and a lot of good luck, those 6 could, imo, be top of the pile in 5 years time. I've never thought management by committee is a good thing, and I never will do, but there is a lot of benefit in a collection of knowledgeable people contributing to the discussion. Roeder may be a good coach but he's no strategist and the thought of GR and FFS planning for the future........... well, I'd love to be a fly on the wall tbh. With your advice also heeded, tin hat is now on! I didn't mean this exactly, even though it is true that currently they operate under different rules. It will take a huge effort for a team to beat both of these though, in the immediate future under current circumstances. Liverpool or Arsenal, the current challengers, could beat one of them but both ? Unlikely. Basically, to put it in one sentence, my view is that whatever the system, the club that succeeds will be the one with the most able person [or people if you like] running the show regardless of it. And there are still only 2 major trophies, which leaves a lot of "failures". I think you know the same as me that Roeder will not be Newcastle a long time. Whether Fred is though, we will have to wait and see. My opinion on this is unchanged. If we appoint a good - or the "right" manager - then we are made because he will be given the backing. The fact that Arsenal and Liverpool have or are about to have new stadiums is exactly what I had in mind when I have said in the past that NUFC should have moved to LeazesPark, or built a new stadium somewhere else in the city. I don't care about the traditional values of staying at SJP, a new home and the chance of building a better future and new traditionss with more chance of being successful far outweighs those considerations. In any case, if the club had shown they had been prepared to move and looked like they meant it, the council would have allowed the club to move to Castle Leazes. Just an opinon, but it would have been interesting to see their reaction. Interesting that you don't care about the traditional values of staying at SJP, I feel very much the same way about WHL, it is situated in an area which is difficult and expensive to develop and at the same time THFC own almost all of the open land to the west of Banbury reservoir going south to Lockwood reservoir. It must be at least 5 times the size of the current WHL site and only about a mile or so away. Tradition is all well and good but shouldn't be allowed to stand in the way of progress. Unfortunately, with this view I am very much in the minority.

I said Newcastle with good luck and good luck could join the elite in 5 years, I stand by that statement. no, you said you didnt t I said Newcastle with good luck and good luck could join the elite in 5 years, I stand by that statement. if you're asking me do I think Newcastle will get the good direction needed to achieve that with GR and FFS, then my answer is no. As I said earlier in the thread, I have not seen anything to suggest there is a strategy in place to improve the club other than haphazard signings which, imo, will not be sufficient to push Newcastle into the top group with Chelsea, Man Utd etc. You may not agree with my views but they are consistent. i consistentally full of s***. how the f*** can you say in one sentence that "iyho" we are unable to replicate a "succesuful period in our recent past " then post a bit later that with a bit of luck we can???? make your mind up for fucks sake. isnt it funny that when spurs had a dip in form you were "on holiday" now your posting crap all over the place! mmmmm There's a world of difference between what could happen and what is likely to happen. Newcastle imo could be very successful with all the right components in place except strategy. Without that strategy, success could be very difficult to achieve. Not so hard to wrap your head around that is it? The holiday was fine thanks although as I've been back for over two months it is more and more a distant memory, but thanks for asking all the same!

I said Newcastle with good luck and good luck could join the elite in 5 years, I stand by that statement. if you're asking me do I think Newcastle will get the good direction needed to achieve that with GR and FFS, then my answer is no. As I said earlier in the thread, I have not seen anything to suggest there is a strategy in place to improve the club other than haphazard signings which, imo, will not be sufficient to push Newcastle into the top group with Chelsea, Man Utd etc. You may not agree with my views but they are consistent.

I think we'll simply have to disagree tbh, I think the course of action has to come before who will be seeing the course of action through. Santini would never have done as good a job as Jol, not because he is/was a lesser abled coach but because he didn't want to work with the constraints placed upon him by Arnesen and THFC. The straw which broke the camel's back was Santini wanting to buy an obscure French midfielder whose name I can't remember, Arnesen said no, I'm buying you Carrick instead. Carrick signed up and never once played for Santini before he left/resigned/was pushed. MJ took over and Carrick played every game after that, injuries allowing. That said, Jol is considered at WHL to be nothing more than decent, not great by any stretch of the imagination. Juande Ramos, Claude Puel or Alex Inglethorpe (who Comolli rates very highly) would probably be the preferred options to replace him although I do know that Allardyce has been mentioned as well. Whether Big Sam would want to work alongside a DoF I would say is hugely questionable. Of course the coach has a say in who he would like, but whether Comolli or Levy go along with that is another thing, but I don't think Comolli would force a player on a coach like Arnesen did. Jol would like us to go all out for Barton, Comolli has massive doubts about his temperament, Comolli is keen on Diouf (who is also keen on Spurs) but Jol doesn't fancy that at all. I don't think either of those will be seriously pursued. The other thing I think you're wrong with is the belief that just 2 clubs will continue to mop all the trophies up. Chelsea because there will be money to burn if necessary, Man Utd, Arsenal once the rebuilding is complete, that's 3 for a start. Add to that Liverpool with their new found dollars and new stadium and any team with the ambition to break into that group. Spurs have been up in the past and could be again with an enlarged stadium, Newcastle even more recently and even more possible for them to do it again. It's hard to look beyond those 6 (except possibly Everton) but with good direction and a lot of good luck, those 6 could, imo, be top of the pile in 5 years time. I've never thought management by committee is a good thing, and I never will do, but there is a lot of benefit in a collection of knowledgeable people contributing to the discussion. Roeder may be a good coach but he's no strategist and the thought of GR and FFS planning for the future........... well, I'd love to be a fly on the wall tbh. With your advice also heeded, tin hat is now on!

No, it was a successful period in Newcastle's recent past. But do you believe Newcastle are about to replicate those figures over the next 10 years? I don't think so. Yes, without doubt. 5 or 6 years ago neither Spurs or Bolton were remotely close to Newcastle's level. Now both clubs have caught up and overtaken Newcastle (imho). There will always be fans who want things done differently, even Chelsea and Man Utd are not exempt from this. The vast majority of Spurs fans are happy with the direction the club is taking and the progress being made. I would never suggest who Newcastle should model themselves on in the future, but I don't disagree with what you've said about Spurs. Totally agree. Managers like Fergie, Wenger and SBR are rare indeed. I include SBR as he managed at the top level for over 20 years and (imho) would have turned Newcastle around again, but wasn't given the time to do so. So the belief that a good manager (not a great one) has only 3-5 years in him only reinforces the need for a DoF. I'll return to that at the end. Quite frankly, I don't think you have any comprehension of what Comolli does for Spurs. Comolli, as DoF, is responsible for the Academy, he does not run the youth set up. He is responsible for the scouting network, he is not the chief scout. He has his own transfer budget of in excess of £10m per year to sign half a dozen youngsters provided that their individual fee does not exceed a certain figure and that their salary does not exceed a certain figure. When Adel Taarabt was signed from Lens, Comolli told Levy that he was signing Taarabt, not asking if he could be signed. There is a level of delegation of duties which (I would believe) far exceeds that which exists at SJP. At the weekend, some newspapers were reporting that a Brazilian kid is being bought and will be loaned to FC Brussels to shortcut work permit problems. This is no different to what Arsenal did with Carlos Vela (in Spain) and Comolli has complete control in that area. It's Comolli that has created 5 associations/partnerships with other clubs in Europe and Africa and there is no doubt that there will be more. Comolli is also responsible for the proposed upgrading of WHL (or new stadium) and the progress on the new Academy which alone will be costing approximately £33m. He's the one who liaises with the local planning areas, he's the one who had a meeting with Ken Livingstone, the Lord Mayor of London, just 2 weeks ago regarding the transport infrastructure around WHL. I would describe Comolli as the visionary who has put together the blueprint for the future of Tottenham Hotspur. Levy is the one who backs the plans with money and Jol is the one who makes those plans happen. If things go wrong on the pitch, it's the coach who goes, not the planning, not the blueprint for the future, it's for Comolli and Levy to get the right coach in to make it happen. As I said before, 5 or 6 years ago Newcastle were streets ahead of where Spurs and Bolton were at that time. Now I believe Newcastle are behind both. Bolton and Sam Allardyce have the strategy there is no doubt, I would still put them ahead of Spurs in development terms, they have had the strategy in place longer. What Bolton don't have is the financial resources to keep taking that one step further. At some stage Allardyce will go and I believe Bolton's level of ambition will go with him. Spurs now have the strategy (since 2004 when Arnesen joined) and have some financial resource to go with that. Spurs have the fanbase but they don't have the large stadium to generate the significant income through the turnstiles of say Old Trafford, the Emirates or SJP. Newcastle, by contrast, have the fanbase, the large stadium and the income structure but don't have the strategy. If there was the strategy was already in place, Newcastle wouldn't be trying to join the Big 4, they would already be part of the Big 5. In fact, they did have the strategy and their place at the top table and threw it all away when SBR was shown the door. Returning to the original thread, any expansion of SJP should be good for Newcastle. But it can only be of real benefit when the strategy to take the club forward is in place and that means improving the squad and the Academy structure. Personally I see little sign of that happening other than in a haphazard manner and, as a Spurs fan, long may that continue. As a football fan, I think it's a sad sight to see a squandered opportunity.

You replied to part of my previous post while I was typing it!

Well, the explanation of the wage bill figure is that it has had the one-off Owen compensation knocked off it, thus partially disguising an actual rise of around 12 percent. Did the annual wage bill really increase by 12%? I don't profess to be an expert on matters financial, but reading Macbeth's link, I gained the impression that the £3.3m may have been double counted. Macbeth said the £3.3m had been used to reduce costs to a "more acceptable £41.8m". He then goes on to say that the wages figure of £27m would have risen to £30.3m if it hadn't been for the £3.3m compensation. Has the compensation been counted twice or are the wages part of the £41.1m? Additionally, are the wages all employees or just the players' wages? If it's the latter, I can't really see how the wages could have increased by such a percentage when 6 players (including some high earners) have gone and only 4 (with only 2 high earners) have come in. One other thought comes to mind. Are the signing on fees listed as players wages or other payments elsewhere in the accounts? With Duff reputedly getting over £4m as a signing on fee, if that one off payment was treated as wages, it would rather distort the figures for the year. Don't think that I'm picking holes in the figures because I'm not, I'm not taking sides, just simply raising some questions.

Bit of a bold statement to make!

Not worth more than 30k at the present time imo, especially as there will be a couple of mill signing on fee as well. But as I said a while ago, the rumour down here was that it was inevitable he would be joining Newcastle in the summer....................... not that there's been any contact as that would be breaking the rules!!

I don't really know much about him tbh other than he has been successful at a small club. However, I do know that as at about 2 months ago Puel was Comolli's number 1 choice to replace MJ should leave in the summer and that Comolli thought so highly of him, he was being touted as the only realistic option. Since then Spurs' results have turned around so maybe MJ won't be leaving at all, but Comolli's assessment of Puel still remains.

I think you're overrating him tbh. He's generally solid and dependable, but not exceptional. Comolli has said Flamini hasn't developed as expected, so maybe a change of scenery would be best for him.

IMO he is one of the worst managers out there I agree about Koeman though He is quality Houllier would make a top class DoF imho, if he hasn't got contacts here there and everywhere I would be very surprised. Incidentally, I was strongly in favour of appointing Roeder to be manager I'd be happy for him to get the chop now, probably have a punt on whoever is made the caretaker! :lol:

...yet Martins has 10 league goals & Berbatov has 8. True, but Berb's contribution to the team is greater than Martins when neither are scoring. They are totally different types of players but Berbatov contributes a great deal to the team even when not scoring, I can't honestly say the same about Martins from what I've seen so far. I'm sure it will come in time, but not yet.

I believe you're correct. Maybe it's a better option for them (or someone like them) to fund the development rather than buy the club lock stock and barrel.

Totally agree that receiving a one-off chunk of money, no matter how large or small, is no guarantee that it will be spent wisely. But that's what the Directors are in place for, to ensure that the money coming in is utilised to its maximum potential for the benefit of the shareholders. Offering another 8k seats in 3/4 years time may be beneficial to the club. If the club is successful, then there is every likelihood that those extra seats will be filled. I would see the concern being would the seats be filled if the team continued to perform for the next 3/4 years as it has for the last two season? Until Souness went, relegation last season was a distinct possibility. This season relegation is still a possiblity, not likely admittedly, but not yet ruled out. My overall impression of most clubs is that success on the field is important to ensure off field success follows. Sure, there are exceptions, but generally I would see it as more beneficial to NUFC to have a successful team now and for the next 3/4 years rather than going to an enlarged stadium at the end of that period. I would be more receptive to the idea of 60k seats in 2011 if I saw now plans to overhaul the playing staff, get the wages under control, get motivation on the pitch etc etc. The stadium plans are laudable but I just think there are other matters which need attention first.

It's not technically borrowing. The hotels and stuff won't be owned by the club, so we don't technically have to borrow any money to build all that. Someone else is doing that and they'll own it, the club will still own the land though and get a 'free' ground extension. If that's the case, wouldn't it make more sense to get money from the investors to reinvest in the team rather than getting an extra 8k seats which, tbh, are you desperate for? If there was a queue of people waiting to buy season tickets I could understand it more, but surely the quality of the playing squad should be of paramount importance? For no particular reason I think this is more a way of boosting the value and the profile of the club to a potential buyer rather than any obvious benefit to the club's fans.

Doesn't Oliver recall that Tierry Henry was crap in his first season? Would he have sold him as well because he hadn't adjusted straight away? Martins needs a full season at least to adjust to the premiership. With some, eg Postiga, Rebrov, they just never adjusted to the premiership. Others, like Berbatov, adjusted pretty quickly (but not from day one). Others, like Martins, Henry, Drogba, need/needed a full season to adjust. Martins has all the attributes to be a success in the premiership, stick with him!

Roeder is not a DoF, he would be Newcastle's version of David Pleat, someone occupying the job without having the qualifications to do the job properly. if Roeder is to go, he should revert back to his role in the Academy where he had some success in bringing youngsters through. If GR had the attributes to be a successful DoF he would have already set up his own scouting network with his own contacts. The fact that Newcastle until recently had only one full time scout screams at me that Roeder had been neglecting an area in football which is critical to the success of a DoF.