Unbelievable

Why would he want to come here as a third choice? He possibly wants to leave a bigger club than us because he's not first choice, and there are plenty of other clubs where he would be first choice (Feyenoord for example are desperate to have him stay on loan for another season).

'Arry seems well pissed off..

"the fans have been right behind us.."

Good goal that from Hoilett

Fuck off..

Betis play some lovely, incisive passes..

Ref was determined to not leave that Betis player back on the pitch there it seems..

Ref bottled that. Impossible not to spot that.

That's a fucking hand ball ref!

That Betis mascot behind the goal..

Aye, really fast paced, end-to-end football. Quite a good watch.

How shouldn't he get anywhere near the pitch? He's in the same bracket as the likes of Williamson, Guthrie and Best for me, not first choice players, but good to have as cover when players like Steven Taylor, Cabaye, Ba and Cisse are out due to injury, suspension, fatigue or representing their national team. Players who are fairly dependable even if not spectacular. Unless you believe we will be able to assemble a squad of 20 players of first team, top 6 quality players and keep them all happy we will need players like them. I think Guthrie's a good comparison, because for me he's the type of back up player I would want at the club. He's not the best athlete, but because he's technically a good player you could slot him into midfield for a few games and it wouldn't affect the team's fluency football-wise. Ryan Taylor being a far more limited player on the ball should really only be considered a right back, and we have loads of other w*** options for that role. Yet they have very similar stats in terms of goals created and scored in their time with us, and that is with Taylor having played in defense more often than not. Also, I don't think Ryan Taylor is as bad on the ball as you suggest. He clearly has a good shot on him, I don't think his crossing is any worse than anybody else in our squad (arguably better than most) and I haven't noticed him giving away possession significantly more than anybody else too. He's made some mistakes which have cost us goals, and looked vulnerable at times (in a position that is not natural to him let's not forget), but show me a player who hasn't? I think the fact he is not the fastest or most exciting player is clouding people's judgement. If Santon had done what he has done this season people wouldn't half complain so much.. All those attributes you have highlighted are a good reason why I think prozone stats can be misleading. Good shooting or crossing don't mean much if you only do it from dead ball situations. Similarly it's easy not to give the ball away if you just pass it backwards or sideways. Why doesn't he bring the ball out of defence and look for one twos with other players? It's because he's not comfortable on the ball. He's one of those who treats it like a hot potato because of that, and it's difficult to see how you can build a passing team with players like that being central. You don't have to take my word for it, just wait and see which teams come in and show an interest in signing him. It won't be any of the top 6 that's for sure, and I'm sure they have all the same stats available to them as we have. He's scored a few where the ball was moving, Everton at home this year and Chelsea away in the cup last year come to mind, both of which required outstanding shooting technique, so the argument that he can only shoot a dead ball is rubbish. He's also put in quite few good assists from open play this year (just checked on a Premiership stat site and they've got it down as 7 just in the Prem this year + 1 from a dead ball situation) from the wing (a prime example being Bolton away for Ben Arfa if my memory serves me well). Also, I don't see how you can argue Ryan Taylor hasn't played it out of defense this year; there's been plenty of matches where he has play left back and overlapped Jonas to a decent extend (more so than Simpson on the right for sure). The fact that no top 6 club will come in for him is completely irrelevant. He's a squad player and nobody has ever argued he would improve a top 6 squad. With their financial means they can afford to aim higher. Us though, with him already on the books, we could have let him go for free at the end of next season, but would have needed to invest at least one or two million to replace him as a squad player. You seem to think he's a Championship player, but I think there would be quite a few Premiership clubs who would have been happy to snap him up on a free had he not renewed.

How shouldn't he get anywhere near the pitch? He's in the same bracket as the likes of Williamson, Guthrie and Best for me, not first choice players, but good to have as cover when players like Steven Taylor, Cabaye, Ba and Cisse are out due to injury, suspension, fatigue or representing their national team. Players who are fairly dependable even if not spectacular. Unless you believe we will be able to assemble a squad of 20 players of first team, top 6 quality players and keep them all happy we will need players like them. I think Guthrie's a good comparison, because for me he's the type of back up player I would want at the club. He's not the best athlete, but because he's technically a good player you could slot him into midfield for a few games and it wouldn't affect the team's fluency football-wise. Ryan Taylor being a far more limited player on the ball should really only be considered a right back, and we have loads of other w*** options for that role. Yet they have very similar stats in terms of goals created and scored in their time with us, and that is with Taylor having played in defense more often than not. Also, I don't think Ryan Taylor is as bad on the ball as you suggest. He clearly has a good shot on him, I don't think his crossing is any worse than anybody else in our squad (arguably better than most) and I haven't noticed him giving away possession significantly more than anybody else too. He's made some mistakes which have cost us goals, and looked vulnerable at times (in a position that is not natural to him let's not forget), but show me a player who hasn't? I think the fact he is not the fastest or most exciting player is clouding people's judgement. If Santon had done what he has done this season people wouldn't half complain so much..

How shouldn't he get anywhere near the pitch? He's in the same bracket as the likes of Williamson, Guthrie and Best for me, not first choice players, but good to have as cover when players like Steven Taylor, Cabaye, Ba and Cisse are out due to injury, suspension, fatigue or representing their national team. Players who are fairly dependable even if not spectacular. Unless you believe we will be able to assemble a squad of 20 players of first team, top 6 quality players and keep them all happy we will need players like them.

I don't think you will find many people who would have him in their "ideal XI", even with our current squad. He's the type of player I don't mind seeing as one of our 7 subs, and I suspect that goes for a large number of our fans.. As for your expectation level comment, I think you've got me completely wrong: you'll be hard pressed to find many posters who have been more critical about our level of ambition in recent years. That doesn't mean I don't understand the concept of having a squad, rather than just a first team...

Why settle for that level? We've proven we can replace and improve on infinitely better players than Taylor seemlessly and on the cheap. We should just fax Athletico bilbao a check for 2 million pounds with a question attached " Which one of your players can we get for this" and the outcome would likely see us very well off. Deary me..

The problem is he is being called upon every week for 90 minutes with some people on here congratulating him every time he doesnt get thrown on his ass by Shaun Wright Phillips. Another thing you've just pulled straight out of your arse.. Well done.

He's spoke a lot of sense in this thread. Have you brought him along from one of the other hundreds of forums you visit? No. But he made a top post about Ben Arfa a few pages ago that was anything but nonsense. Jus saying like. I agree with his views on Ben Arfa. I fail to see how they are particularly relevant in the context of discussing the merits of giving Ryan Taylor an extension to his contract. He's also managed to somehow get Muntari involved, called Shane Long a promising youngster and wondered why we cannot compete for the likes of Wickham at 8 million a pop for completely unproven "potential", all in some strange rage to discredit a dependable squad player who has had a more than average contribution to this year's results so far getting an extended contract. The lad is clueless plain and simple. Ben arfa is relevant because they play the same position and Taylor is keeping him out of the starting elleven, as stated by Pardew naming him a key player. Muntari/CL medal was a response to you somehow managing to credit Ryan taylor for getting us to third, Shane long/wickham was just examples of young players from lower divisions who we appearently cant compete for, all in some strange rage because someone who should ideally MAYBE be making the bench is starting every week in the very position that is the only ticket into the squad for our biggest talent in 15 years. Its a bit unjust on Ryan really, because he is a decent lad and... a very average fotballer - and its not his fault he is being picked every week. But I still dont see why we need to extend his contract. He is massively average and wouldnt get a toe-in it any top-10 side realistically. Happy? No, not happy. I love Ben Arfa as much as the next guy, and Pardew will have a lot of explaining to do if he doesn't fulfill his huge promise with us, but I don't see them as playing the same position at all. Ben Arfa is an attacking player, a number 10, who should be just behind the striker(s). Taylor is a utility player who should be on the bench when everybody's fit to play, but can do a decent job when needed in the full back and midfield positions. The fact that Pardew has gone back on his earlier appraisal that he saw Ben Arfa as a second striker and definitely not as a winger shows you that he doesn't know how to get the team performing better with Ben Arfa than without Ben Arfa, it's as simple as that.. Now when a match isn't going our way, and the fans get grumpy, he brings on Ben Arfa on the right wing, like he used to do with Sameobi earlier in the season. I don't think this is his best position to be fair, but he's miles better than anything else we've currently got there. All of which is fine, but doesn't have anything to do with Ryan Taylor. It seems some people have started to hate him for being preferred by Pardew a lot above two of the more popular players amongst the fans, first Santon at left back and now Ben Arfa at right back. I blame Pardew for what I see as cowardice in his team selection, but I really don't understand why that should make me hate the player who's coming in in their place and actually doing a pretty good job at contributing positively to the team to the best of his ability.

It's not nonsense. But there are plenty of people who can't look past he's a very limited player, because he has apparently "put in a shift" and "given 100%" in all the games he's played this season. On top of that he's seen as a nice guy who would sit on the bench and like it if the manager ACTUALLY played the better player. I'm not so sure. At fullback he's a train wreck (not his fault he's had to play there of course). He does more than just put in a shift, doesn't he? Perch puts in a shift, Ryan Taylor also creates and scores goals, can cover the full back positions (where we don't currently have much cover) and deputise across the midfield. He's no world beater, but the simple fact is, he is the kind of player you need in a squad, in the same way that Aaron Hughes used to be for us. He's not on massive wages, doesn't cost a transfer fee to keep on a bit longer, is apparently a good player to have in the dressing room, doesn't complain when he's kept out of the first team. I really don't see the problem here..

He's spoke a lot of sense in this thread. Have you brought him along from one of the other hundreds of forums you visit? No. But he made a top post about Ben Arfa a few pages ago that was anything but nonsense. Jus saying like. I agree with his views on Ben Arfa. I fail to see how they are particularly relevant in the context of discussing the merits of giving Ryan Taylor an extension to his contract. He's also managed to somehow get Muntari involved, called Shane Long a promising youngster and wondered why we cannot compete for the likes of Wickham at 8 million a pop for completely unproven "potential", all in some strange rage to discredit a dependable squad player who has had a more than average contribution to this year's results so far getting an extended contract. The lad is clueless plain and simple.

He's spoke a lot of sense in this thread. Have you brought him along from one of the other hundreds of forums you visit?

I don't think he's been on here before. Don't remember ever reading this much nonsense on here.

Both s***, both lost, Bilbao brilliant and unbelieveable has turned in Inspector Jack Frost, otherwise quiet, i'm munching on some custard creams and the kids Fairy cakes if that livens things up. Okay, I'll sit down and relax now..

I think there's a bit more to Bielsa than "a manager who dont mind actually giving it a go".. You like to oversimplify things, don't you? Play FM much? Football is a simple game, made complicated by people who dont have a clue. No idea what he says to the lads, but they are playing 10 times the fotball at 1/10th of the salary we are paying. Just an observation. Not meant in a litteral sense you mong. Goes to show you can play decent fotball even with a limited squad. You just keep going, don't you? What's limited about their squad? The fact is those players are technically vastly superior to most players in the Premiership. They have also been welded into a very strong unit by a superb tactician of the game, and their fitness was top notch. You make it sound like you have only just found out tonight that playing good football without zillions of pounds investment is possible. Clubs and nations that focus more on youth development have been doing it for donkey's years. To achieve it you need a lot more than "a manager who dont mind actually giving it a go" who says the right thing in the dressing room on match day. Saying "football is a simple game, made complicated by people who dont have a clue" is really not doing their performance credit. In fact, in your case I would argue the exact opposite of that statement is true. Edit: you may want to give that article VI posted on the last page a read. You'll appreciate it's about a bit more than saying "you can do this lads!" in the pre match team talk. Their squad is limited in the sense that there are loads of clubs bigger than them who could swoop in at any moment and take their players, both with and without backing from sovereign states Again, my comment was not to be taken litterarily, it was a tongue-in-cheek comment in regards to those defending pardew and saying half our team is s*** and we are basically forced to play the way we do. The mindset of the Atletico coach is certainly more offensively orientated than our coach. Here we have a club with vastly inferior means and players who earn a fifth of danny simpson playing vastly superior fotball. So if we are to replace pardew with anyone, I wouldnt mind this lad. Heinki Vogel would be another good candidate. Loads of good coaches around. Except your comment wasn't tongue in cheek, you posted similar comments just before: "give it a go"? Also, I haven't seen anybody on here "defending Pardew saying our team is shit and we are basically forced to play the way we do".. I also don't know where you get the idea from that La Liga players earn a pittance, again this is grossly misguided, as is the concept that there are loads of great coaches around. Bielsa is a great tactician, maybe even a one off, not just "a good coach". You're making it all up as you go along, aren't you..?

100% correct. Shame some of the people on here can't seem to see the difference..