Yorkie

Everything about the shake-up boils down to appeasing the ESL clubs, particularly the six PL ones. UEFA has engineered ways to maintain 'elite' club participation in the Champions League. Their first proposals in 2021 literally suggested two high-revenue-generating teams could qualify for the CL even if they underperformed domestically (i.e. that coefficient horseshit). I don't think it's far-fetched to say making the EL easier to win is just that, dressed up as meritocracy. Surprise surprise that two of the three ESL clubs who didn't feature in the CL this season ended up in the EL final. The other absentee is in the Conference League final. As for revenue; all of the clubs who compete in the Champions League get more revenue than the previous format, because there's more games. That probably covers the shortfall they might otherwise have achieved via finishing 3rd and having an EL run.

I wasn't asking if the trophy win meant something/anything though, of course it does. I was asking for your take on the "would you take 17th and a cup win?" contemplation... ... which you've answered here. From your point of view, the ends justified the means and you could care less about the league. Fair enough. The matter about the prestige of the Europa League is a separate discussion. I won't knock Spurs' achievement from the point of view of Ange et al identifying the EL as their principle objective and succeeding; but I will knock it from the point of view of it being less of an achievement in a European context. To answer your question: when I was talking about the structural changes, I meant the wholesale shake-up of UEFA competitions to appease the ESL clubs (including Spurs), of which no CL dropouts is just one constituent part. Where previously the EL was Champions League B, I'd argue it's now moreso Conference League A.

But this is what it's framed as now. Please don't create an ESL! How about we expand the Champions League for you? Tell you what, even if you have a shitter in the league, we'll make the Europa League easier to win too as a bit of a safety net.

Well it's always been "would you take 17th and a trophy" as opposed to "would you take 17th and a trophy which gains you qualification for the CL". I'm just curious to know if the silverware - alone - exempts the laughable domestic campaign. Re the other point, my mind has changed on that, literally in the last few weeks. Spurs and Man Utd have demonstrated that, to any PL team, winning that competition is no longer the achievement it was. I'm really sad about that; I feel like we had unfinished business in that tournament but the structural changes have really damaged its prestige imo.

That's not the thought experiment though... We're on about trophies aren't we?

I'd be interested to know from @leffe186 if last night is a true test of that age-old thought experiment. I'd argue that '17th in the league' doesn't really tell the whole story here, because 17th is historically bad for Spurs. Their domestic campaign has been absolutely disgraceful given their finance, infrastructure and standing. If you're Wigan Athletic, you biting hands off if you're offered a cup win and a 17th placed finish. Are you biting hands off if you're a Spurs fan and you're offered a cup win and an absolutely abhorrent 17th placed finish and nine months of unrelenting toxicity?

Surely he hasn't got a chance in hell in England with that name.

This one has really got to me, like. Hate basically everything about it. I'm glad for those of you who like it though. I almost wish I wasn't a cantankerous arse when it comes to kits.

It's a lot harder to feel happy for Spurs than say Palace, but @leffe186 is good people, so I'm happy for you. Love you too, @Froggy. It's a shame Ange is such a wanker. It's a hell of a mic drop, tbf, despite it not being the achievement it was in basically every previous iteration of this competition.

Ange surely isn't a Spurs legend, like? They've been a laughing stock and won this competition because the competition has been massively inferior.

European football, surely?

Ah well, there's always next year. Eddie Howe's dark grey and mostly white army!

Incredibly fitting that the fate of these two teams' seasons should be decided by that utterly shit goal. Even the celebration was shit.

Can tonight please be the night, finally, where both teams lose.

Horrible night for York, so disappointing. Hopefully Oldham go up and not Forest bloody Green.