Parky

.........Owen........ Bellamy.........Martins... On the break? Gawd blimey have some of thaaaat!

Clueless. Good argument. I thought so.

I still love Bellamy though, and for that price if he stayed fit he'd be a bargain, but there's no chance of that happening. I don't think he's as good as he was when with us as well btw. He's still quick but he's definitely lost a yard. Still dangerous imo and combative. Never said he wasn't Park Life! Good.

The best players are. It's a character trait.

Clueless.

West Ham are very short of cash and most players will be available in Jan. Bellamy for £5m? Well would you?

I still love Bellamy though, and for that price if he stayed fit he'd be a bargain, but there's no chance of that happening. I don't think he's as good as he was when with us as well btw. He's still quick but he's definitely lost a yard. Still dangerous imo and combative.

Yes I'd love to see Bellamy sprinting around with Martins and Owen.

his threat is often outweighed by his giving the ball away too easily and poor positioning meaning when we get the ball out it comes straight back. True, but Martins isn't exactly the only player guilty of giving the ball away too easily. We have players in far more volatile positions who give it away just as often if not more often. Players like Viduka only offer a threat when the ball is in the box, which first requires us to be dominating the midfield and actually getting the ball into the box first. As our midfielders aren't good enough to do that, more often than not, we have to rely on the threat of a ball in-behind (or over the top of) the defence instead - there's only Martins in our squad who can really capitalize on that. Opposing managers can blatantly see how limited we are when the game is squeezed, so as soon as that threat in-behind is removed, they literally push their defenders right up into the center of the pitch and laugh as our midfielders shit themselves at the first sign of pressure. This. I think it's worth pointing this out. The amount of stick both Martins and N'Zogbia get for losing the ball is funny when you consider we can't generally get the ball from one end of the pitch to the other without passing to the opposition. Generally those two lose the ball because they are at least trying to go forward with it, if we had enough movement across the pitch I'm sure passing woulkd be a lot easier for attacking players. nail head someone was criticising martins movement and someone else his passing(!)...if we had a halfway decent midfield their passing would be dictating his movement and it'd be him tearing into the space between fullbacks and CB's rather than watching the ball either fly over his head or not reach him at all From what I see Enricky and Butt are the biggest ball losers.

his threat is often outweighed by his giving the ball away too easily and poor positioning meaning when we get the ball out it comes straight back. True, but Martins isn't exactly the only player guilty of giving the ball away too easily. We have players in far more volatile positions who give it away just as often if not more often. Players like Viduka only offer a threat when the ball is in the box, which first requires us to be dominating the midfield and actually getting the ball into the box first. As our midfielders aren't good enough to do that, more often than not, we have to rely on the threat of a ball in-behind (or over the top of) the defence instead - there's only Martins in our squad who can really capitalize on that. Opposing managers can blatantly see how limited we are when the game is squeezed, so as soon as that threat in-behind is removed, they literally push their defenders right up into the center of the pitch and laugh as our midfielders shit themselves at the first sign of pressure. This.

Hee he..

I think you're born with that. You see on the other side of the coin what Martins lacks in savvy he makes up for in shear madness and willingness.

Cracking post ringo.

I don't think it's anything to do with the coaching tbh. You'd have thought that in 5-6 years at Inter & Newcastle, if he was going to learn when and where to make his runs, control a ball, pass a ball, etc. he'd have done it by now. If it was a few tweaks here and there that he needed, then fair enough, but it's skills that you should have sewn up when you're 17-18 that Martins lacks in. You try controlling a ball with thigh muscles like that. Sarcasm surely.

I don't think it's anything to do with the coaching tbh. You'd have thought that in 5-6 years at Inter & Newcastle, if he was going to learn when and where to make his runs, control a ball, pass a ball, etc. he'd have done it by now. If it was a few tweaks here and there that he needed, then fair enough, but it's skills that you should have sewn up when you're 17-18 that Martins lacks in. You try controlling a ball with thigh muscles like that.

If only he had a deeper voice.

Whatever happens make sure we get rid of fatty and Shola.

The stats don't say anything because we're talking about a certain situation, one where we're desperately trying to hang onto a lead and the best way to do that is not allow the opposition backline to move up onto the halfway line. You're right in that of course it's not the only reason but it's a major factor. It's not simply a case of who scores at certain times and after coming on or whatever - in the last ten minutes when you desperately need a goal, there aren't many players I'd rather have than Michael Owen (see Wigan) but that is not the case here. Why is he leaving a specialist poacher on when he clearly has no interest in scoring another goal? Just looking at stats and goals doesn't tell you anything about how much fear Martins' presence alone puts into a defence (especially one like Stoke's - hardly blessed with pace) and stops them playing a high line, no matter how he's performing on the day. Kinnear shouldn't be trying to defend these leads at all but in taking Martins off, he's shooting himself in the foot because it makes it harder to defend such a lead. He'd gone off when Man City equalised btw. In a nutshell. Also it's a familiarity breeds contempt scenario as in we underestimate the fear other sides have of not only the pace of Martins but his unpredictability. I think as an out ball you have to leave him on..No question. And as pd said earlier not only is Viduka not able to hold onto the ball as he used to, when we are defending he has no one to lay it off to either. Comes straight back..........

He should be concentrating on the football tbh I think Rich just beat you to it.

I don't believe anybody was comparing him to our midfield. He's been poor in THIS game imo. Lennon and Bellamy have been the most dangerous. Although I have seen Jenas stroking balls around the park.

You must be watching a different game mate. I'm talking in general. This season he really has looked a class player for Spurs. Been very influential during their best spells. The most dangerous player in the ground is Paolo Di Canio and he's sitting in the stand. He's no Gianfranco.

What's your point? Didnt particularly have one... Well if you haven't got a point make really long posts then none will notice. I'd say the point was people need to stop making mountains out of molehills when it comes to Martins being subbed. I beg your pardon?

You must be watching a different game mate. I'm talking in general. This season he really has looked a class player for Spurs. Been very influential during their best spells. The most dangerous player in the ground is Paolo Di Canio and he's sitting in the stand.

You must be watching a different game mate.