Dr Venkman

we are talking about the performance on the field Johnny. Unless you think the chairman told the managers who to buy, who to play, etc etc, it boils down to the managers. This has been discussed, there is no way you can blame a chairman for players underperforming, as in 2 FA Cup Finals for instance. The job of the chairman and board stops at backing the manager, and that is what they have all done. They have all been backed with money and backing to put together teams good enough to have won trophies, and they have all won trophies previously to show that they also had the capability to do it. Especially Dalglish. And as we have also said, Sir John did not appoint Keegan, he didn't think of him, and he was outvoted when it came to appointing him, so you can't give him any credit for it, that goes to the 3 people who did ie Shepherd, hall Jnr and Fletcher. so taking the club forward gets the owners a pat on the back, and failing to capitalise on it and going backwards is the fault of the players, nice one I don't believe I said that. It's always the players who play. I do believe however, that you are looking like one of those people who are unable to differentiate between the different roles of players and directors. Nor do you understand that major shareholders of a multi million pound company don't normally leave the entire major decisions to someone else, and don't have any input, but we know that you are only spouting this nonsense to satisfy your agenda. au contraire, i understand everything here, including the excruciatingly difficult concept to grasp that a players role is different to a directors, are you having a laugh? i just think that freddy shepherd is a stupid c*** that we're better off without, and you dont, that's the only real difference between me and you, could you consider stopping thinking that everyone that doesnt agree with you either doesn't know the facts, or is just too daft to know what they mean? i'd love to know what my agenda is, by the way, because freddy's gone and the majority of people think he was a t*** anyway, i'd have to have a screw loose to be devoting my spare time to wrecking his 'good name' haha. Now you are looking a bit daft. If you think Shepherd is a dick and we are better off without him, then 87 clubs watched us enviously playing in europe regularly, and brought top class players to the club for a canny few years. As usual, I don't expect you to get a perspective, rather than chase a silly agenda. Also, if you think we were better off without the ex board, you wouldn't last 5 minutes supporting a club with a real s**** board. As usual, ALL of your post concerns the personality, which affects your judgement, but I suspect you aren't capable of seeing this. I don't expect you to take up factual issues rather than personalities or you would have done so by now. I'm not having a laugh ref my remarks about the difference in roles between players and directors, I think you - and many others - don't understand this. You clearly don't seem to understand when the job a director does becomes that of the player. BTW, I'll only think we are better off without the ex board, when someone comes along and does better. The fact that you can't grasp this fairly basic concept says everything. i can grasp the concept of your opinion, its not hard, i just disagree, they did a good job initially and then did a really shit job and took us backwards, therefore i think we're better off without them, its ok though, i can disagree with you and still feel ok about it because its not disturbing to me that someone has different opinion to mine, i have no agenda

we are talking about the performance on the field Johnny. Unless you think the chairman told the managers who to buy, who to play, etc etc, it boils down to the managers. This has been discussed, there is no way you can blame a chairman for players underperforming, as in 2 FA Cup Finals for instance. The job of the chairman and board stops at backing the manager, and that is what they have all done. They have all been backed with money and backing to put together teams good enough to have won trophies, and they have all won trophies previously to show that they also had the capability to do it. Especially Dalglish. And as we have also said, Sir John did not appoint Keegan, he didn't think of him, and he was outvoted when it came to appointing him, so you can't give him any credit for it, that goes to the 3 people who did ie Shepherd, hall Jnr and Fletcher. so taking the club forward gets the owners a pat on the back, and failing to capitalise on it and going backwards is the fault of the players, nice one I don't believe I said that. It's always the players who play. I do believe however, that you are looking like one of those people who are unable to differentiate between the different roles of players and directors. Nor do you understand that major shareholders of a multi million pound company don't normally leave the entire major decisions to someone else, and don't have any input, but we know that you are only spouting this nonsense to satisfy your agenda. au contraire, i understand everything here, including the excruciatingly difficult concept to grasp that a players role is different to a directors, are you having a laugh? i just think that freddy shepherd is a stupid cunt that we're better off without, and you dont, that's the only real difference between me and you, could you consider stopping thinking that everyone that doesnt agree with you either doesn't know the facts, or is just too daft to know what they mean? i'd love to know what my agenda is, by the way, because freddy's gone and the majority of people think he was a twat anyway, i'd have to have a screw loose to be devoting my spare time to wrecking his 'good name'

we are talking about the performance on the field Johnny. Unless you think the chairman told the managers who to buy, who to play, etc etc, it boils down to the managers. This has been discussed, there is no way you can blame a chairman for players underperforming, as in 2 FA Cup Finals for instance. The job of the chairman and board stops at backing the manager, and that is what they have all done. They have all been backed with money and backing to put together teams good enough to have won trophies, and they have all won trophies previously to show that they also had the capability to do it. Especially Dalglish. And as we have also said, Sir John did not appoint Keegan, he didn't think of him, and he was outvoted when it came to appointing him, so you can't give him any credit for it, that goes to the 3 people who did ie Shepherd, hall Jnr and Fletcher. so taking the club forward gets the owners a pat on the back, and failing to capitalise on it and going backwards is the fault of the players, nice one

we have a winner

smith

Examples? 99% of people on here, including you ? You can change that perception that I have simply by agreeing with me that the new owners aren't better, until they have at least matched those Champions League qualifications. But I'm not holding my breath that you - and other people without naming names but are obviuos - will admit this is the case. You asked the question by the way. Ah right, so you're assuming that's what people are assuming? I haven't got a clue what Ashley will spend. I haven't got a clue whether the new lot are 'better' than the old lot. They've not had the chance to prove they are any better or worse. You seem to have given them mere months before voicing your displeasure and spouting off about Champions League finishes, it's laughable. gotta agree, it seems very childish going on about who's 'not better', they've barely just taken over, it's saying stuff like that which makes you look biased NE5 Best ever 3 consecutive league positions in 50 years, more european qualifications than any other time in the clubs era, only bettered by 4 clubs is your answer I'm afraid. If you wish to dispute cold hard facts, I can't help you. No board who are s*** does this. BTW, is isn;t me who is saying anyone is better than anyone else, its rather the amount of people who are saying the new board are better when they are miles away form proving it yet. This is the only point that I am making. once again you come in with your list of acheivements and facts when they were entirely un-necessary, nor was the bit about the ex board not being s***, i did NOT say that, again you make yourself look like an obsessive, and, if people want to be stupid in your opinion i.e. claiming ashely will automatically be better, just let them get on with it, why does it bother you so much? its doing things like this that makes you look like you have an agenda not an agenda. Just facts. New board have to beat it to show they are better, whats the problem. Do you think they are better, or do you agree ? right, but the facts were totally un-necessary in relation to what i was saying, am i talking to myself here? i already said that and the problem with the 'new board have to beat it to show they are better' is that its so mind bogglingly OBVIOUS that i dont know why anyone would bother to say it, UNLESS, they for some reason wanted to continually defend the last board and as for whether i agree, i'm reserving judgement until i have more things to go on, its to soon man

Examples? 99% of people on here, including you ? You can change that perception that I have simply by agreeing with me that the new owners aren't better, until they have at least matched those Champions League qualifications. But I'm not holding my breath that you - and other people without naming names but are obviuos - will admit this is the case. You asked the question by the way. Ah right, so you're assuming that's what people are assuming? I haven't got a clue what Ashley will spend. I haven't got a clue whether the new lot are 'better' than the old lot. They've not had the chance to prove they are any better or worse. You seem to have given them mere months before voicing your displeasure and spouting off about Champions League finishes, it's laughable. gotta agree, it seems very childish going on about who's 'not better', they've barely just taken over, it's saying stuff like that which makes you look biased NE5 Best ever 3 consecutive league positions in 50 years, more european qualifications than any other time in the clubs era, only bettered by 4 clubs is your answer I'm afraid. If you wish to dispute cold hard facts, I can't help you. No board who are s*** does this. BTW, is isn;t me who is saying anyone is better than anyone else, its rather the amount of people who are saying the new board are better when they are miles away form proving it yet. This is the only point that I am making. once again you come in with your list of acheivements and facts when they were entirely un-necessary, nor was the bit about the ex board not being s***, i did NOT say that, again you make yourself look like an obsessive, and, if people want to be stupid in your opinion i.e. claiming ashely will automatically be better, just let them get on with it, why does it bother you so much? its doing things like this that makes you look like you have an agenda

Examples? 99% of people on here, including you ? You can change that perception that I have simply by agreeing with me that the new owners aren't better, until they have at least matched those Champions League qualifications. But I'm not holding my breath that you - and other people without naming names but are obviuos - will admit this is the case. You asked the question by the way. Ah right, so you're assuming that's what people are assuming? I haven't got a clue what Ashley will spend. I haven't got a clue whether the new lot are 'better' than the old lot. They've not had the chance to prove they are any better or worse. You seem to have given them mere months before voicing your displeasure and spouting off about Champions League finishes, it's laughable. gotta agree, it seems very childish going on about who's 'not better', they've barely just taken over, it's saying stuff like that which makes you look biased NE5

pr, sellable asset, spend loads of money straight away etc etc

I'm going to leave it as it's no longer got anyting to do with the original thread and isn't even worth going on about as nothing new has been said for the last 5 or 6 pages. To get back to the original post, January could be interesting as it looks like we'll be buying for the future, proof that the plans for the club are long term as I doubt buying kids is going to add value to the club from day one. agree

He wasn't what? He wasn't offered the job, according to NE5. No, you're wrong. Not according to me at all. I know he wasn't, according to someone else, who knows he wasn't. That's still according to you. That statement doesn't preclude the condition you've detailed. So you're wrong in saying I'm wrong. If you're absolutely definite then can only conclude the person you know is either Shepherd, or Bruce. And it depends upon your definition of 'offered' - some people will include him being sounded out, tapped up on the phone or whatever, as him being offered the job. By your definition it entails a piece of paper ratified by all board members, which is also fair enough. I have absolutely no idea if Shepherd or anyone had a cup of tea with him on a motorway somewhere and asked if he was interested in the job [which happens], but I'm telling you he wasn't offered it because it was never a majority boardroom decision to offer it. In any case, what do you think of those rich owners of Birmingham, and Dave Whelan offering him the job, after you and others insisted nobody else would be stupid enough ? Or is it just another daft knee jerk comment? What do I think of David Sullivan, purveyor of the Sunday Sport? Bit of a tosser. David Gold, he seems like a good guy to me. No opinion of Dave Whelan. Can you quote the argument where I said no-one would be stupid enough to offer him a job? Just that I don't remember commenting on that at all! Isn't it just? I was just trying to clarify what you were saying with a bit of logic but you've just taken it the wrong way. You can't even accept that there are different opinions of what entails a job offer in this day and age, esp. for a quango-style set-up like Shepherd had in tow. Oh, I'm sorry, there's no piece of paper that someone's signed to say that was the way it was, therefore it wasn't true, can't have been true, it's all made up by the bloody ELVES. Merry Christmas. Well, there are a whole band of Shepherd bashers who insist he is the worstest chairman that ever ran a football club, of which you are one. Can't wait until Ashley matches those Champions League qualifications. i cant wait either mate, really

go supermort

nice to be signing players at this age and at little cost (presumably), better than signing them at 21 or 22 for 5m and having expectations put on them

he's an absolute cretin of the highest order and should be removed from his position immediately

he's gonna learn english in a month, apparently

I take it you haven't read Morts comments about spendign in January [/astonished] You must be someone else who can't accept bare facts laid out in front of you, when they don't suit your opinions ? Basically, if the club don't act to fill glaring hole in the team, and say they won't act, what conclusion do you draw ? We haven't been s*** for years either BTW. I thought you were one of the better posters, until you said that. yeah, i've seen his comments, it made sense to me, i'm giving him a clean slate so i'll wait until the end of the season to make my judgement on how their first season in charge went, given the circumstances bare facts? we're specualting over what the club MIGHT do in january, there are no facts yet, and facts change my opinions, so, eh, what? i'm not sure if its a break down in communication but as far as i'm aware by saying years that can class as 2 years at the least, and i feel pretty assured that we've been s*** for at least two years, i dont really mind what you think of me well, I suppose if you've followed the club for 5 or 6 years, then the last 2 years could seem a long time. And if you've only supported the club since 1992, then the last few years have been comparitively not too good. But if you've supported the club longer than that, they have been a long way short of s***, and for that, you'll have to take my word for it. no i wont, there are many other sources of information, i dont have to take your word for anything, you've never said anything thats changed my views, as i'm sure i've never said anything thats changed yours, might aswell just pack it in Aye, and other sources of information will confirm that we have been a damn sight worse in previous decades than in the last couple of years. oh you're joining in are you? i wasnt beamed into the planet 2 years ago, i have a decent understanding of our history, i still think we've been s*** for the last few years, i was simply saying i dont have to take his word for it because he tends to get a bit preachy if you dont nip it in the bud Where was the, "na na ni na na....." I'm sure it would fit in well after your hissy bit in bold. If you have any understanding of the history of the club you'll know that as poor as the last few seasons have been there have been far, far worse in the memory of MANY supporters who still go to matches today. i dont like the beatles, i've never disputed that there's been harder times, ever, irrelevant No, the past is not irrelevant, it never is on any subject. The past provides lessons and information which only the arrogant ignore. Cheers maybe i should have clarified, i felt that what you were saying was irrelevant, not the past as a whole the fact that you and NE5 are questioning the new boards intentions and where it will take us, and yet tell us at the same time that we should ignore/forgive shepherd and co taking us backwards over the last few years because we have been worse off before is a contradiction so glaringly obvious its almost amusing haha, and you called me arrogant then ended your post with 'cheers', hahahahaha, mint So it's a fact I'm questioning the intentions of the board? Good one. I don't think I've made a comment about these remarks from Mort but don't let the truth get in the way. in which case i apologise, i didnt take the time to re-read the thread before posting that comment and thought that was your line of thinking due to what you were saying about the past etc I was picking up on your apparent disregard of the past as unimportant when in fact the opposite is true. In everything. ok, well i've already addressed that

I take it you haven't read Morts comments about spendign in January [/astonished] You must be someone else who can't accept bare facts laid out in front of you, when they don't suit your opinions ? Basically, if the club don't act to fill glaring hole in the team, and say they won't act, what conclusion do you draw ? We haven't been s*** for years either BTW. I thought you were one of the better posters, until you said that. yeah, i've seen his comments, it made sense to me, i'm giving him a clean slate so i'll wait until the end of the season to make my judgement on how their first season in charge went, given the circumstances bare facts? we're specualting over what the club MIGHT do in january, there are no facts yet, and facts change my opinions, so, eh, what? i'm not sure if its a break down in communication but as far as i'm aware by saying years that can class as 2 years at the least, and i feel pretty assured that we've been s*** for at least two years, i dont really mind what you think of me well, I suppose if you've followed the club for 5 or 6 years, then the last 2 years could seem a long time. And if you've only supported the club since 1992, then the last few years have been comparitively not too good. But if you've supported the club longer than that, they have been a long way short of s***, and for that, you'll have to take my word for it. no i wont, there are many other sources of information, i dont have to take your word for anything, you've never said anything thats changed my views, as i'm sure i've never said anything thats changed yours, might aswell just pack it in Aye, and other sources of information will confirm that we have been a damn sight worse in previous decades than in the last couple of years. oh you're joining in are you? i wasnt beamed into the planet 2 years ago, i have a decent understanding of our history, i still think we've been s*** for the last few years, i was simply saying i dont have to take his word for it because he tends to get a bit preachy if you dont nip it in the bud Where was the, "na na ni na na....." I'm sure it would fit in well after your hissy bit in bold. If you have any understanding of the history of the club you'll know that as poor as the last few seasons have been there have been far, far worse in the memory of MANY supporters who still go to matches today. i dont like the beatles, i've never disputed that there's been harder times, ever, irrelevant No, the past is not irrelevant, it never is on any subject. The past provides lessons and information which only the arrogant ignore. Cheers maybe i should have clarified, i felt that what you were saying was irrelevant, not the past as a whole the fact that you and NE5 are questioning the new boards intentions and where it will take us, and yet tell us at the same time that we should ignore/forgive shepherd and co taking us backwards over the last few years because we have been worse off before is a contradiction so glaringly obvious its almost amusing haha, and you called me arrogant then ended your post with 'cheers', hahahahaha, mint So it's a fact I'm questioning the intentions of the board? Good one. I don't think I've made a comment about these remarks from Mort but don't let the truth get in the way. in which case i apologise, i didnt take the time to re-read the thread before posting that comment and thought that was your line of thinking due to what you were saying about the past etc

I take it you haven't read Morts comments about spendign in January [/astonished] You must be someone else who can't accept bare facts laid out in front of you, when they don't suit your opinions ? Basically, if the club don't act to fill glaring hole in the team, and say they won't act, what conclusion do you draw ? We haven't been s*** for years either BTW. I thought you were one of the better posters, until you said that. yeah, i've seen his comments, it made sense to me, i'm giving him a clean slate so i'll wait until the end of the season to make my judgement on how their first season in charge went, given the circumstances bare facts? we're specualting over what the club MIGHT do in january, there are no facts yet, and facts change my opinions, so, eh, what? i'm not sure if its a break down in communication but as far as i'm aware by saying years that can class as 2 years at the least, and i feel pretty assured that we've been s*** for at least two years, i dont really mind what you think of me well, I suppose if you've followed the club for 5 or 6 years, then the last 2 years could seem a long time. And if you've only supported the club since 1992, then the last few years have been comparitively not too good. But if you've supported the club longer than that, they have been a long way short of s***, and for that, you'll have to take my word for it. no i wont, there are many other sources of information, i dont have to take your word for anything, you've never said anything thats changed my views, as i'm sure i've never said anything thats changed yours, might aswell just pack it in Aye, and other sources of information will confirm that we have been a damn sight worse in previous decades than in the last couple of years. oh you're joining in are you? i wasnt beamed into the planet 2 years ago, i have a decent understanding of our history, i still think we've been s*** for the last few years, i was simply saying i dont have to take his word for it because he tends to get a bit preachy if you dont nip it in the bud Where was the, "na na ni na na....." I'm sure it would fit in well after your hissy bit in bold. If you have any understanding of the history of the club you'll know that as poor as the last few seasons have been there have been far, far worse in the memory of MANY supporters who still go to matches today. i dont like the beatles, i've never disputed that there's been harder times, ever, irrelevant No, the past is not irrelevant, it never is on any subject. The past provides lessons and information which only the arrogant ignore. Cheers maybe i should have clarified, i felt that what you were saying was irrelevant, not the past as a whole the fact that you and NE5 are questioning the new boards intentions and where it will take us, and yet tell us at the same time that we should ignore/forgive shepherd and co taking us backwards over the last few years because we have been worse off before is a contradiction so glaringly obvious its almost amusing haha, and you called me arrogant then ended your post with 'cheers', hahahahaha, mint

I take it you haven't read Morts comments about spendign in January [/astonished] You must be someone else who can't accept bare facts laid out in front of you, when they don't suit your opinions ? Basically, if the club don't act to fill glaring hole in the team, and say they won't act, what conclusion do you draw ? We haven't been s*** for years either BTW. I thought you were one of the better posters, until you said that. yeah, i've seen his comments, it made sense to me, i'm giving him a clean slate so i'll wait until the end of the season to make my judgement on how their first season in charge went, given the circumstances bare facts? we're specualting over what the club MIGHT do in january, there are no facts yet, and facts change my opinions, so, eh, what? i'm not sure if its a break down in communication but as far as i'm aware by saying years that can class as 2 years at the least, and i feel pretty assured that we've been s*** for at least two years, i dont really mind what you think of me well, I suppose if you've followed the club for 5 or 6 years, then the last 2 years could seem a long time. And if you've only supported the club since 1992, then the last few years have been comparitively not too good. But if you've supported the club longer than that, they have been a long way short of s***, and for that, you'll have to take my word for it. no i wont, there are many other sources of information, i dont have to take your word for anything, you've never said anything thats changed my views, as i'm sure i've never said anything thats changed yours, might aswell just pack it in Aye, and other sources of information will confirm that we have been a damn sight worse in previous decades than in the last couple of years. oh you're joining in are you? i wasnt beamed into the planet 2 years ago, i have a decent understanding of our history, i still think we've been s*** for the last few years, i was simply saying i dont have to take his word for it because he tends to get a bit preachy if you dont nip it in the bud Where was the, "na na ni na na....." I'm sure it would fit in well after your hissy bit in bold. If you have any understanding of the history of the club you'll know that as poor as the last few seasons have been there have been far, far worse in the memory of MANY supporters who still go to matches today. i dont like the beatles, i've never disputed that there's been harder times, ever, irrelevant

I take it you haven't read Morts comments about spendign in January [/astonished] You must be someone else who can't accept bare facts laid out in front of you, when they don't suit your opinions ? Basically, if the club don't act to fill glaring hole in the team, and say they won't act, what conclusion do you draw ? We haven't been s*** for years either BTW. I thought you were one of the better posters, until you said that. yeah, i've seen his comments, it made sense to me, i'm giving him a clean slate so i'll wait until the end of the season to make my judgement on how their first season in charge went, given the circumstances bare facts? we're specualting over what the club MIGHT do in january, there are no facts yet, and facts change my opinions, so, eh, what? i'm not sure if its a break down in communication but as far as i'm aware by saying years that can class as 2 years at the least, and i feel pretty assured that we've been s*** for at least two years, i dont really mind what you think of me well, I suppose if you've followed the club for 5 or 6 years, then the last 2 years could seem a long time. And if you've only supported the club since 1992, then the last few years have been comparitively not too good. But if you've supported the club longer than that, they have been a long way short of s***, and for that, you'll have to take my word for it. no i wont, there are many other sources of information, i dont have to take your word for anything, you've never said anything thats changed my views, as i'm sure i've never said anything thats changed yours, might aswell just pack it in Aye, and other sources of information will confirm that we have been a damn sight worse in previous decades than in the last couple of years. oh you're joining in are you? i wasnt beamed into the planet 2 years ago, i have a decent understanding of our history, i still think we've been shit for the last few years, i was simply saying i dont have to take his word for it because he tends to get a bit preachy if you dont nip it in the bud

I take it you haven't read Morts comments about spendign in January [/astonished] You must be someone else who can't accept bare facts laid out in front of you, when they don't suit your opinions ? Basically, if the club don't act to fill glaring hole in the team, and say they won't act, what conclusion do you draw ? We haven't been s*** for years either BTW. I thought you were one of the better posters, until you said that. yeah, i've seen his comments, it made sense to me, i'm giving him a clean slate so i'll wait until the end of the season to make my judgement on how their first season in charge went, given the circumstances bare facts? we're specualting over what the club MIGHT do in january, there are no facts yet, and facts change my opinions, so, eh, what? i'm not sure if its a break down in communication but as far as i'm aware by saying years that can class as 2 years at the least, and i feel pretty assured that we've been s*** for at least two years, i dont really mind what you think of me well, I suppose if you've followed the club for 5 or 6 years, then the last 2 years could seem a long time. And if you've only supported the club since 1992, then the last few years have been comparitively not too good. But if you've supported the club longer than that, they have been a long way short of s***, and for that, you'll have to take my word for it. no i wont, there are many other sources of information, i dont have to take your word for anything, you've never said anything thats changed my views, as i'm sure i've never said anything thats changed yours, might aswell just pack it in

I take it you haven't read Morts comments about spendign in January [/astonished] You must be someone else who can't accept bare facts laid out in front of you, when they don't suit your opinions ? Basically, if the club don't act to fill glaring hole in the team, and say they won't act, what conclusion do you draw ? We haven't been s*** for years either BTW. I thought you were one of the better posters, until you said that. yeah, i've seen his comments, it made sense to me, i'm giving him a clean slate so i'll wait until the end of the season to make my judgement on how their first season in charge went, given the circumstances bare facts? we're specualting over what the club MIGHT do in january, there are no facts yet, and facts change my opinions, so, eh, what? i'm not sure if its a break down in communication but as far as i'm aware by saying years that can class as 2 years at the least, and i feel pretty assured that we've been shit for at least two years, i dont really mind what you think of me

i refuse to believe there's just a simple fan/chairman relationship going on with NE5 and Shepherd, its baffling mate, honestly, how you spin things to suit, for example saying things like 'they're happy with mid table mediocrity this season' etc etc, you've removed all context, i'll be happy with mid table this season, it'll be an improvement, we've been shit for years and we need to build back up to strength, i just DONT understand you

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/2007/12/15/allardyce-i-m-no-long-ball-merchant-89520-20253368/ interesting read, particularly that bit

to the tune of the intro to 'respectable' by mel and kim 'beye beye beye beye buh buh buh buh buh beye beye'