Raconteur

what in it for us?

 

You mean apart from money, prestige and top quality opponents leading up to the season...?

I'm thinking the large Shearer vote might be influenced by those Toon fans who want him to get some training ground experience before Freddy installs him

My vote was for Tony Adams, nothing more than a feeling, but I believe he's got real potential - played under Wenger (and adapted his game towards the end, always the sign of a good professional), wise enough to realise that learning overseas is a good string to add to his bow, and even his boozy past might be a plus in that it will give him some perspective on the important things in life (and perhaps limit the drinking of his players - I can't stand athlete's who drink excessively...)

Raconteur mate you're reading way too much into what are basically soundbites, in my opinion.

That's exactly my problem though - I can see clearly that they are soundbites (in fact, I'm pretty sure I used the word )

Things aren't going very well at the moment, I want some brutal honesty, not the warm and fuzzy version!

Howay people, you should know by now not to take what a manager says as gospel or read too much into what they say, THEY ALL SPEAK CRAP. And this isn't me blindly defending Roeder here, he does speak shite, but he isn't the only one.

 

You know, I think I've posted half a dozen times tonight pouring scorn on Roeder's public comments (in fact I refrained from adding to the Hunty thread because I became conscious about it!) However, it's not that he speaks shite, just that it seems every time he opens his mouth shite flows from it.

You're right, every manager does it, but I think what really gets my goat is that he tees off on the "vocal minority" while virtually every comment seems to have no purpose other than placating the silent majority who want to believe the warm and fuzzy sentiments he comes up with.

And I can appreciate he can't be too honest regarding transfer targets, and must take care not to upset his players by firing rockets publically, but surely the fans deserve something more than soundbites written by a PR guru? A fair proportion of fans are upset with both the progress of our season and the prospects for the future, and yet the only time I can remember a cross word coming out of his mouth was after the AZ defeat.

I used the word ruthless in another thread, and ventured that it is a virtue successful managers have but Glenn does not - for instance as NE5 states he can't decide between Parker and Butt, for me that demonstrates he isn't ruthless enough to drop his captain (or any of the other under-performing players at his disposal)

So for these reasons, you might have to forgive the vocal minority for sounding off on his talking shite routine...

So why did he leave Chelsea genius?  I will accept the fact these players chose us because we were offering a better wage but the whole reason for them leaving their old clubs was to get more football so this whole "only here for the money, aren't bothered about playing" thing is a load of bollocks!

Without basing this on anything other than speculation, but perhaps he was told he didn't have a future at Chelsea and his agent was instructed to find him a new club? The relatively low fee (for a seasoned international who cost Chelsea a fortune) seems to indicate this was a possibility...?

I'm still here, and I'm still of the opinion that he can do a good job for us. But then again, I've never been one who thinks that because we're newcastle united, we should be in the top 4 every year... I'd be very happy with Top 10 finish this year, Top 7 next year, Top 6 the year after.... and I think Roeder, providing he's given the backing, can do that job. It's got nothing to do with me being "happy with mediocrity" as plenty of people call it... i just think we need the stability that all of the top clubs have.

 

Fair enough, he's been a bit tactically naive at times, and there have been a few odd team selections, but I think he talks a lot of sense, and would much prefer us to persevere with a capable if not spectacular manager (which he is) than rush out for another "proven" manager and start this whole process again.

 

I think he's spending the little money he does have wisely (Duff has been dissappointing but will surely get better), and should be given the chance to take us to the next level. I don't think spending the majority of the season with between 10 and 15 first team regulars missing is "a fair crack at the whip".

 

I think there are an awful lot of people on this and other message boards who can't tell the difference between "poor decisions" and "decisions that I don't agree with, but aren't neccesarily wrong". For instance, when the team was announced for the AZ home game, the majority of posters were saying Roeder was clueless because he brought Carr back into the team... we then went on to play our best football of the last year, and people spent the rest of the night trying to get their heads out of their arses.

 

As people say, Football's about opinions. You have one, I have one, Roeder has one, and none of us are wrong.

What's that proverb about words and action, and one being louder than the other?

Yes, he talks sense, but his interviews are too rarely matched by his deeds. When Roeder opens his mouth expect well-meaning soundbites, when Roeder acts, expect very little.

One positive from the AZ match was that he was moved enough to drop Bramble - it was about the first time he has acted with any ruthlessness, which is the mark of all successful managers

At the moment it is just all talk I agree...but he has at least admitted that he didn't succeed in the last window and has said why. He recognizes also that if he fails in this window he will have no excuses and he will be judged on the state of the squad at the start of next season.

 

I just like where he is coming from and this is why I think he just about deserves this summer to get it sorted and if he doesn't then at least we will all know for certain that he has to go. At the moment though I feel it is to early to get rid of him as there is still a good chance he could get it right or at the very least get in the kind of players we need and build the kind of squad we ought to have.

I have to disagree with the bold bit - he hasn't explained what went wrong at all, just fobbing us off with "for a variety of reasons". I know he's not going to come out and say something like "I really like Jorge Andrade but he didn't want to come to the north-east" or "Giles Barnes looks really good but Derby want daft money" but to suggest he has provided valid reasons just isn't the case.

More useless platitudes from Glenn, but what do I know - I'm part of the know-nothing vocal minority

That Caulkin piece is Roeder's media game to a tea - well-meaning shite that sounds good to the unwashed but has zero basis in reality and no credibility with the "vocal minority" who, cantrary to what Roeder says, actually give some thought to matters at St James' Park...

The "four years contract" bit is ridiculous - you know Glenn, it is the club that offers the contract! You can offer a prospective player a one or two year contract with options to extend!!!

The one star here, one star there part also makes good sense on first reading, but does anyone believe he has the gumption to tell Freddy that? "Yes boss, no boss, three bags full boss" is surely how he speaks to Shepherd.

Telling us "big-hitters" like... Parker want a winning team here suggests he is still deluded enough to think our captain is a central plank in our side, which will bring groans to many Toon fans - yes, he is a decent player and has admirable qualities but is in no way a player to build a team around.

And the last one about past their shelf life - surely he can only be referring to Campbell, which means he's not paying particular attention to the other clubs in the EPL, or else he would know that Campbell has been fantastic at Pompey...

More clever soundbites that don't reflect reality...

Holloway had Huntington on trial at Plymouth, sent him back, didn't think he was good enough.

Is that really the case - I understood that we recalled him after flogging Boumsong to Juve...?

plc accounts list director pay

That's a good answer!

Owens effectively on £50k actually.  When he's on £100k a week he will be playing (hopefully) and contributing to the team.  Are people forgetting he effectively is the reason we were in the UEFA cup this year?  And no-one outside the club knows the amount he brings in merchandise and exposure and exposure = advertising.

 

Dyer probably is on that but he's a good player and is one of the exceptions to the rule.  Parker hasn't fully lived up to expectations which is difficult to predict when discussing contracts.

 

In any case, I don't deny that a handful (and it is a handful) of players are on high wages but the whole point of the thread is that there is a wage crisis.  I don't believe there is for one minute.  And I don't believe we pay significantly over the odds in general for our player wages.

 

I see spurs are being hailed as financial geniuses.  They have less employees than us and still spend over £42 million on staff.  If their players are getting so low a wage what are the tea lady's on?  250k a year?  Again, people quoting actual salaries for Spurs players without having inside knowledge.  What is the point.  How can we have a debate when people make up figures?

 

And Spurs' chairman gets paid 50% more than Shepherd.  No-one seems to be bothered there either.  I would rather be paying money on wages than the chairman.

 

Speculate all you want tbh, I can't stop anyone.  I can have a bloody good laugh at the thread though.

 

And when did I point out any disclosure rules?  I said they were limited in order to explain that you get given a total and not individual employee figures.  No need to get arrogant about it.

 

My point is simple.

 

In my opinion there is no wage crisis or anything like it.  The majority of this forum don't know enough about business (i'm not saying I do) and even if you do, unless you have access to Newcastle's accounts, and every other club in the country you can't say Butt, Emre, Taylor or anyone else get paid way over market value.

No doubt you can spot the irony of the two bolded comments - or can provide evidence of your assertion?

Christ. That isn't sexy football.

mackems.gif

More ridiculous Martins slagging.

 

'Chance of the season'.

I wonder if Oliver will continue his campaign against Oba until he has run our Nigerian talisman out of town...?

I went for 03/04 - because that was the season Uncle Bobby started losing it, and all the momentum he had built up disippated. Losing to Partizan was a kick in the guts, and the moment, for me, when any title winning aspirations faded and we slipped back into the pack. I fear we'll never have it as good as we did then, with a world class manager and a terrific squad capable of challenging Man Utd and Arsenal in what was (at the time) essentially a two-horse race

Don't care really.  Why not?  Carroll/Luque up front against Charlton.

 

Although I did hear from an ITK that the reason he isn't being played in the Premiership is a massive additional fee if he makes another league appearence.  Who knows.

Would be interesting to know if there was any truth to this... Has anyone else heard anything similar?

Considering we seem to only go for British managers, what about Mark Hughes? (Assuming he would come - but hey, it's as likely as many other suggestions here!)

The Shay-bashing always shows up after every bad defeat.

 

I won't even bother bandering about the useless "world class" debate, but I don't think anyone here can disagree that his saves for us FAR outnumber his mistakes. End of.

 

Aye he does good stuff, but fact is, he is a prima donna. Football is a team game, and he never plays his part in the team, instead just living off his own individual moments of brilliance, which is why we'll never win anything while he is between the sticks.

 

In my eyes, there is no difference between Shay Given and Laurent Robert.

 

Most Improved Poster 2006.  Just how fucking bad were you prior to that?

And this is exactly why there is a "Gemmill Appreciation Thread" in GC

just who is the highest placed clean living hard training 110% giving team in the Premiership btw?

Like I said, I'm not ITK but there's based on what I see and read too much of a 'laddish' atmosphere at the club.

What's do you think of when you hear the names Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger and Benitez? They're all demanding taskmasters (NB not fucking OTT 'disciplinarians' like Souness!), they have the respect of their players and those players know if they don't do the job they're on their asses...

When you think Roeder, the first thing everyone thinks is "nice guy" - why the fuck would anyone would want a nice guy as a coach? He's supposed to be pushing his players to excel, driving and inspiring them.

And before anyone says "Uncle Bobby was a nice guy", yes he was - and look where it got him! His tactical acumen and transfer dealings got him some good results, but his "niceness" ended up costing him his job because his players ran roughshod over him and he couldn't stand up to Shepherd.

That's why I (tounge-in-cheek) suggested Newell - he'll take no shit from anyone! But that's me being facetious...

That was just one person saying we need Shearer not the majority!

 

Shearer would probably sort the basic problems out on the pitch and give us team which may challenge.  He would certainly improve our lot no end imo, but the core problems im talking about are at this club are that we dont have a real desire to train hard, live a clean life and be the absoloute best, players are more than happy to come here and do the bare minimum for their wages and that is a fuckin disgrace and no one pulls them up over it.

 

We get a brief spell when things go well and time and again everyone at the club thinks they're world beaters and the board start shouting their mouths off then it all blows up in our face and we NEVER learn from it.

 

These are the two things which have to change in order for this club to win things.

I have no evidence whatsoever to base this on, but this is a distinct impression I have too.

Mike Newell for manager, Shearer to assist him

Empty. I couldn't watch the game - I woke up this morning (just after fulltime here) and saw the banner headline on soccernet "Heartache for Toon". Didn't even read the story, felt hollow inside.

That said, my missus dumped me on Tuesday so I've been pretty fucking numb all week!

I would imagine Rooney is widely regarded as a top player throughout Europe. In a similar vein, Cristiano Ronaldo, Fabregas, Alonso, Drogba, Henry etc. get the credit they deserve in this country despite not being English.

Fair point - but I still contend none of the players on my (English) list can touch any of the players on your (European) one...

Dennis Bergkamp. Not a prolific goalscorer by any means, but a class player who set up hatfuls. Rooney might not score loads, but his general play is so good for the team. Man Utd would miss him big time if he was injured.

Rooney is not fit to tie Bergkamp's laces. Some might think that's hyperbole, but I genuinely believe that.

 

Come back in ten years though, after Rooney has walked the walk for more than a decade, and I might change my opinion...

 

Obviously, but Rooney is a similar type of player, ie a creative forward rather than an out and out scorer.

No arguments there, and looking back you weren't comparing Bergkamp to Rooney which was what got my back up, more making the point that there is more than goals to Rooney's game...

I have this little hobby - imagining what a particular player's reputation might be if he weren't English. The likes of Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Ashley Cole, Rooney, even wor Mickey Owen are so hyped up by a nation desperate to see themselves as a world power. Where does the European media rank Rooney? With the likes of Ronaldinho, Messi and Kaka? Perhaps the level of Raul or Ballack? Maybe Jon Dahl Tomasson?

Dennis Bergkamp. Not a prolific goalscorer by any means, but a class player who set up hatfuls. Rooney might not score loads, but his general play is so good for the team. Man Utd would miss him big time if he was injured.

Rooney is not fit to tie Bergkamp's laces. Some might think that's hyperbole, but I genuinely believe that.

Come back in ten years though, after Rooney has walked the walk for more than a decade, and I might change my opinion...

How old is he?!? If he's still only 21/22/23 I can't see him changing his ways once he gets his penthouse down the quayside...however if he's reaching mid twenties he may be starting to mature!

 

Chuck a £8-10m bid, I agree, I think he would be immense in the Premiership, espeically alongside Owen/Martins!

Recently turned 25 says the gospel according to wikipedia...

It's a curious one - not so long ago he was an absolute animal but as KaKa says in the initial post he seems to have vanished from the 'scene'. I know he went through a lengthy spell of poor form and has at times tested Mancini's patience...

He's certainly got the quality to improve our squad - would give Roeder selection nightmares every week, but those that raise questions make good points too: he's a renowned party animal and questions have been raised about his dressing-room attitude too...

Can't see the top four going for him - sure he's got the quality but there are players of similar skill but less baggage. As for whether or not we should chase him, well, it all depends on the size of the transfer pot. (ie learn the lessons of last summer)