KaKa

I'm not entirely convinced that the manager has that much say over the style of football/way the game pans out once the players cross the white line. It's not like it's just Allardyce who has overseen second halves like that after decent enough openings here recently. The players aren't good enough for one, the conditions were terrible, everything else was against us. I don't believe for a second that he's told our lot to go "more direct" at half-time. If anything, it was plainly obvious that if we played some football then we might win it. But how come there was such a vast, vast difference in the first half to the second? There was so few out-and-out long balls in the first half. In the second, every single f****** passage of play was a long ball. And is it just coincidence that it was exactly the same against Man City? Viduka/Owen - they'll have been be pulling their hair out; neither are good in the air and neither have the pace to win flick-ons and suchlike. Taylor/Faye/Given - not particularly accurate long passers (and Given's kicking is unbelieveably poor on the whole nowadays) Butt/Smith/Geremi - all defensive midfielders, and atleast two of them are more often than not in the starting line-up; they don't have the attacking brain or the abililty in any way shape or form to run onto flick-ons or support, or just generally get in the game when the ball frequently bypasses the midfield on the whole Duff/N'Zogbia/Milner - again, two of the three or often all of them play at once, and all three of them are good at running down the bylines; how were they ever going to get into the game If it wasn't the manager who told them to play direct, it wasn't the players. Argh, man, despite what some idiots will have you believe football isn't as simple as this: "right lads, now I know you all follow my instructions to the T at all times, and that you're all like robots with no ideas, imagination or free-thinking yourselves... so here's what I want you to do when you get out onto that field!" These are professional footballers who have played the game religiously and competitively for upwards of 20 years, for the most part, and so will usually be given a fair amount of freedom in how they approach games - especially when they're over the white line. It's not just Allardyce where we've seen this happen, it's not just Newcastle who do this, surely you can see that? The reasons for the second half performance are quite probably vast and wondrous, but if you genuinely believe that we played that way because Sam Allardyce wanted us to, then... well I don't know, I won't be an arsehole about it. I'll venture some counter-reasons though, while I can still be arsed to type: (1) the conditions weren't suited to playing it on the deck, we weren't getting much luck and the players started getting desperate and looking for the "Hollywood" ball (Nicky Butt in particular is guilty of this). (2) We do not have many players who are capable of keeping posession and Stoke were pressuring us all over the pitch, meaning the SAFEST route of action for most of our lot was to pump it long. (3) THE MAIN REASON: Nicky Butt and Alan Smith were NEVER f****** DROPPING DEEP AND ASKING FOR THE BALL, OR MAKING ANY RUNS (this isn't shouting at you btw, it's more my annoyance with them). There were f****** oodles of occasions in that game where I was yelling at one of them to do SOMETHING to open up some space so that Rozehnal, in particular, could play a simple 10-yard pass inside to get a move going, rather than being shown down the channel by their winger and into another long ball. If your central midfielders aren't showing for the ball, or don't have the ability to create any space for themselves to receive the ball and your wingers are both marked, then what other alternative is there bar passing it along the back-line, which would get as much as a negative reaction as the long-ball stuff does? I'm also aghast that people seem to think we've JUST STARTED to play direct football since Allardyce arrived, do people not remember f****** Sibierski-takes-on-allcomers at times last season? Or Alan Shearer towards the end of his career here battling centre-halves for 90 minutes as Titus Bramble and Andy O'Brien lobbed balls up towards his balding cranium!? Do people watch other teams who do EXACTLY THE SAME THING as us when they start to get desperate? If I'm wrong and it comes out in the wash down the line that Sam Allardyce has been demanding we play this way from day one, then I'll openly apologise and be made to look an utter tit, I'll take it on the chin. I'm not going to bullshit anybody, I've just sat stone-faced for the majority of that game, wondering why the f*** I even bother watching matches like this when we're involved ('cos they're all the f****** same). Allardyce cannot be totally absolved of blame, but neither can the players, but all I'm saying is that there's more goes into what happens on a football pitch than what a manager says for 5 minutes at half time. Now, that feels better. Wonderful post. Following up what you have said about Smith and Butt not showing for the ball ... on the odd occassion when our central midfielders had the ball, I feel the strikers were also guilty of the exact same thing too. Neither Owen or Viduka showed enough for the ball either. When all is said and done we basically don't have very good players. The sooner the guys in charge realise this the better.

Was Taylor that good? Got credit for the clearance of the line but he was the one that created the calamity in the first place by falling over under a bit of pressure. Also, why does he have his hands out like that when he defends? Begging to have a handball and penalty given against him. Abdoulaye Faye is an absolute monster of a defender. Never flustered, rusched or hurried. Calm and strong and he actually tries to play the ball out of the back. Honestly, we weren't that bad today. Our problem is a small one but it affects the team massively. We have no actual footballing ability in the middle of the park. Lots of aggression but thats it. I actually respect Butt because he does try to do things although he does end up gettin git wrong a fair bit, but Smith just hides, which is criminal. If Sam can just realise we need someone with a good passing range in the middle we would be a very different team. It doesn't even need to be someone who gets forward. Just someone who can pass the ball to the more attacking players. This is part of the reason we fade so badly in the second half. Smith and Butt become even worse as they tire and so they show for the ball even less and when they do get posession they lose it even more often.

Rozehnal will find his true position today. I think he will be great at right back. Zoggy and Duff on the wings? Brilliant! I think Milner needs to start coming off the bench even if he is healthy. Zoggy, Duff, Viduka and Owen is more than enough in attack. Smith and Butt should concentrate on winning the ball and should allow Zoggy and Duff to really get far up the pitch and join Owen and Viduka upfront.

We don't do those at Newcastle.

If Owen gets injured in this game we have to immediately start loooking for a striker to replace him and just forget about relying on him anymore. I'm not sure anyone relies on him any more. Well, apart from maybe Sam Allardyce. It really is unfortunate though. He has to rely on him and keep accomodating him because I don't think any other team wants him and so we can't sell him and bring in a more useful player; and simply leaving him on the bench would cause all kinds of drama at the club.

I am just relieved this game isn't at SJP as the crowd would definitely have been unbearable. We will likely find it easier playing at their ground. Thinking about it, I don't think Sam will be able to resist a Butt and Smith midfield to further combat their taller forward players. So it will be Owen upfront with Viduka which is quite worrying. Two slow strikers who won't close down their defenders who will pump longballs forward continuously. Just freakin' great ...

If Owen gets injured in this game we have to immediately start loooking for a striker to replace him and just forget about relying on him anymore.

"I am shocked that the club have made offers for two right-backs," Chimbonda told skysports.com "I realise they have signed an exciting new defender in Gunter and also made a bid for Alan Hutton. "I am essentially a right-back and although I don't mind playing in central defence to help out my team my proper position is right back. "When I asked why the club had signed a new right-back and moved for another one I was told they wanted me to play in central defence and I just laughed."

Thats what i would play but Smith will be in there We absolutely have to play Smith in a game like this, as well as have Enrique and Emre sit this one out too. We are going to be playing a big, rough and tumble side, and with our confidence pretty low at the moment it really isn't the time to get cute. Alan Smith upfront with Owen for me. Butt and Rozehnal in midfield. Faye and Taylor centre back. Zoggy left back. Milner and Duff on the wings.

I guess it all depends on what formation we are going to be playing in the longterm. If it's a 4-3-3 then you can see what Sam is trying to do, by putting together the kind of midfield he had at Bolton, with a Butt, Barton and Nolan midfield. However, if we are going to play a 4-4-2, which we might do because of Owen, then Nolan might be more of a replacement for Barton to partner Butt.

Wonder how much he'd cost? On loan would be nice instead of stumping over something near £10m which Wenger will want. Although after seeing the furore caused by us loaning Rossi last year, maybe not... They would never demand £10 million for Bendtner. Around £6 million or £7 million at the most.

He gets into goalscoring positions though, he's much more of a poacher so doesn't rely on the attributes you listed (your comparison is bollocks as well imo) as much as Martins who doesn't get into the positions so because of that is seen as a second striker type player, which again he simply doesn't have the attributes to play. Defoe will get into the box, try shots and generally be in an around the area sniffing for chances, that's what Martins doesn't do, and that is why he is a better striker than Martins imo. I think we could get him if honest, I highly doubt Spurs would hold out for the amount you mentioned. Excellent points. Martins is a player better suited to a squad that already scores a decent amount of goals. Relying on him to score all your goals will leave you frustrated.

The truth about Martins is that he is not a player you want to play the majority of your football through. He can't be the main guy you rely upon. Ideally you want a target man who can hold the ball up, bring others into play and also score a decent amount of goals too; as well as a midfield that is very capable of playing good posession football, passing the ball around and getting balls into the box from the wing. With these pieces in place Martins can then be appreciated for his random brilliance, as it no longer becomes make or break for the team. I think he also inevitably plays better when it isn't all on him to do win every game. Aston Villa, Man City and Tottenham have the necessary pieces to get the best out of him. I hope if he does leave that he goes abroad.

I would be very worried if he went to Villa. Martins isn't perfect but with service from the likes of Young and Barry as well as having Carew to do all the dirty work ... well, I think Martins would be a lot more comfortable and therefore dangerous. Young, Barry, Reo-Coker, Agbonlahor in midfield, with Carew and Martins up top. That wouldn't be fun for any defence.

FM?

Link added now.

How exciting Our very own Elano! http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/2008/01/04/allardyce-told-2m-for-haim-89520-20274244/ Okay so does anyone know anything more specific about him?

Dave how about a thread for just Newcastle transfer rumours? So we can put all of them in there even the most ridiculous ones. We have a thread for other clubs transfers but not ours. Seems like a good idea, but at some point it'll go mental with w*** like the Nolan thing appearing and swamping everything else. Might end up doing it, but for now there's so little rumour separate threads are fine. Alrighty

Dave how about a thread for just Newcastle transfer rumours? So we can put all of them in there even the most ridiculous ones. We have a thread for other clubs transfers but not ours.

I don't particularly want Sidwell or Nolan, but what I'm saying is if I had to choose I would rather bring in Sidwell on loan (which I think Chelsea would agree to) rather than splash the cash on Nolan.

People over at the spurs site are claiming its us. If this happens, ill be the most unhappiest ive ever been regarding spurs transfers since the time we were linked with Alan f****** Smith. Unhappy about Matt Taylor? Save your tears mate. You'll be able to put them to much better use when Harry Kewell signs. He's a right back, no? Was under the impression they needed one of those. Taylor plays left-back/left-wing.

Why buy Nolan when we could probably get Sidwell in on loan from Chelsea. Essentially the same type of player quite frankly. Sidwell is of absolutely no use to Chelsea right now. Must be choking to death on that humble pie.

People over at the spurs site are claiming its us. If this happens, ill be the most unhappiest ive ever been regarding spurs transfers since the time we were linked with Alan f****** Smith. Unhappy about Matt Taylor? Save your tears mate. You'll be able to put them to much better use when Harry Kewell signs.

As a matter of fact I wouldn't be surprised if Sven is in for Ashton. If he is interested in Crouch as has been claimed then surely he would look at Ashton as an alternative? Hope we get Ashton though!

Bent to West Ham and Ashton to Newcastle. Yes please! An big strong striker who is good in the air and who holds the ball up well. Is also very intelligent and gets the best out of his abilities despite a lack of top end pace. Definitely rather get him than Crouch. How much did West Ham pay for him again?