KaKa

17 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

The rationale for defending and deflecting doesn't change the fact that they're doing it. It is happening yes - all you have to do is read the threads on here when it was looking like happening in 2020, or just on Twitter in general.

 

No one's out there saying to themselves "I'm going to defend the things the Saudis have done" like, who would? They're out there defending our relationship with our owners and in doing so often cross the line into inadvertantly defending and deflecting from the things the Saudis have done.

 

Because of our fans' emotional link to the club, when people come along and legitimately criticise the owners and our relationship with them, fans take it to heart (because of our emotional attachment to the club) and in trying to defend something they love, end up defending and deflecting for the Saudis.

I'm not moralising or owt, it seems like a pretty clear cut case of people defending their emotional attachment and looking after their own material interests, but I think it's weird that people also try and pretend it's not happening. 

Defending Saudi practices, would be saying that there is nothing wrong with it. Not seen that happening.

I'm sorry you cannot say defending the relationship with the owners of the club, is inadvertently defending and deflecting the abhorrent practices being carried out by the ruling Saudi regime. Not having that.

The main reason people get annoyed by the criticising of the club, fans and ownership is because the fucking Premier League allows these sorts of people to buy the club, which is the main issue here. The Premier League deemed the buyers to be separate from the Saudi state, but then as soon as the deal goes through, everyone piles in and has a go at the fans of the club that had no power or say in the whole transaction in the first place. In that situation it's no surprise the fans then feel the need to defend themselves and the ownership.

The whole thing is an absolute nonsense. 

22 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Intended or not, at a very base level our owners now have an army of Newcastle fans willing to defend or deflect from the things the Saudis do, a few dupes in the fan base and in the media who think this 'brings them to the table', and a fair few people who deny sportswashing exists.

 

Whether something is a success or failure and the form that something takes doesn't make any difference to whether something exists or not. Sportswashing does exist and putting it bluntly it's ignorant to suggest otherwise

Not seen anyone defending what the Saudi's do because they bought the club. Is that actually happening?

At most they are just letting other fans get under their skin and so are firing back about the hypocrisy of it all in annoyance, and then being petty by carrying the flag or dressing up in their attire, which is ridiculous, but in no way means they care about and now support the Saudis or their practices.

If we are talking about people genuinely now looking more favourably on these countries because of a football club, that just is not happening, no one cares enough to do such a thing. I think it is preposterous.

16 minutes ago, nufc123 said:

i dont know much about the sport washing thing, but what do they earn on this? The Qatar WC has been a car crash on every level. And when they buy a club what do they achieve? They will have a fanbase who "defends" them. Some millions worldwide? Then you have the rest of the millions/billions hating everything they do. All newspaper/TV/media will be negative against the ownership. There is nobody who will be going around for years and tell the word..do you rememeber how wonderful the Qatar WC was? Do you remember when PSG was so good in Ligue 1? That was magic!

 

So can anyone enlighten me on this big business called sports washing?

 

Sorry as this is the Botman thread.. 

I don't understand it either man ... even with Man City and PSG I barely even attach them to the countries involved when just watching the games, never mind actually looking at those countries in any kind of better light because of a bloody football team. It's a shocking strategy if that's what they're supposedly going for.

2 minutes ago, sushimonster85 said:

To be fair to City, if you discount those early days when they went a bit mental (comparatively), they have been pretty shrewd in recent times. Before Grelish their transfer record was the £68m they spend on De Bruyne back in 2015. Grelish aside, they have always tended to operate in the £50-£70m range for players, and usually for players on the up, rather than at the top ready to start declining. It's PSG that pull the truly mental shit. 

Yeah, I agree. And I think we are just going to follow that blueprint of getting players with big time potential a bit earlier on, but do it from the outset, and we will have a lot of success with it.

Just now, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I think they just mean the building will be gradual and the decisions will be thoughtful. It doesn't mean they're not prepared to spend a shit-ton of money when needed.

 

I don't know much about PSG's story, but I think Man City is a good comparison. They have been smart and they have a great organisation, but it doesn't mean they don't use their finances to outmuscle people. When they needed to spend £150m+ on fullbacks to get the right one, they went out and did it. 

I hear you, but I'm not so certain. Lets see how it goes.

I think they are going to put excellent people in place, and we are going to have success in a way that is not going to require a 'shit-ton' of money being thrown around.

2 minutes ago, Awaymag said:

 

Im all washed and lathered with NUFC.....love this sports washing me.   Beats being shat on for 14 years, was that sports dumping?

The sports washing thing is fascinating to me.

Firstly, why anyone thinks those folks care further about how they are perceived I have no idea. Everywhere they go the leaders of countries already roll out the red carpet for them!

Secondly, as far as I can see, all these supposed sports washing projects only get them more grief and if anything, just spotlight the issues in their countries. Is there any single example of a successful sports washing endeavour?!

1 minute ago, morpeth mag said:

I agree, I think we will be way bigger in time.

I think a lot of people will be very disappointed tbh.

They keep telling us it's going to be more of a gradual and sustainable build, and any success is going to be based on sound decisions, but people aren't believing it. I think they're going to go about things exactly like they've said.

Don't think we are ever going to see huge amounts of money being thrown around the way the other two have gone about things.

55 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

 

What? Are you talking about in general or just for England? He's certainly not like that for Chelsea.

 

James is England's best right back by an absolute country mile.

As I just stated in another post, playing in the Chelsea team makes things a lot more straightforward for him, as he can get in behind more often on the overlap, and the players around him are able to find him and play him in, and he then does a great job delivering in the final third in those situations.

For England though, where the build up play is no where near as good to create those overloads for him, and then put him in position to produce a final ball or have a pop at goal, it really reduces his effectiveness a great deal IMO.

It's going to be really interesting to see how this all plays out with Newcastle.

I'm not a 100% convinced we are going to be anything like PSG or Man City at all.

8 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Walker is a better RCB than Trent. TAA just doesn't look good for England and is genuinely a defensive liability.

 

Rheece James in the PL = 5 goals & 9 assists from 22 starts 

 

Nonsense from Kaka again

He gets decent numbers in that Chelsea team for sure, but I really don't like him going forward. If he gets played in behind to either cross first time or shoot then you're in good shape, yes. In that Chelsea team, which has a lot more quality he gets into those kind of positions a decent amount.

Watching him for England though, where the passing isn't quite as good enough to get him into those positions, and he has to do a bit more himself, and it looks quite different. Watching the recent few England games, kept getting frustrated at how cautious he was either in taking people on, or playing a forward ball into players.

In a system where England are already playing three at the back, and often then have two defensive minded midfielders on top of that, I have no idea why Southgate wouldn't use TAA, who is a more dangerous passer, crosser and player going forward. It's all part of why they looked so poor in the recent games.

14 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

 

What? Are you talking about in general or just for England? He's certainly not like that for Chelsea.

 

James is England's best right back by an absolute country mile.

I just don't see it. I think he's quite limited going forward, if the defender he is going up against is in position. He doesn't really take them on dribbling with the ball, and also goes backwards with the ball way too often IMO.

36 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I think Saka plays left back for England before Targett does. There's better options at RW than at LB.

 

Not true re Chilwell. Chilwell played the last game of the season, he'll have a full pre-season and be fit enough for the WC unless he has setbacks. Chilwell was definite first choice at Chelsea before he got injured. He started the season poorly but was absolutely flying before he got injured.

Wrong on both counts.

6 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

One of the notable things about all of this is the tendency to forget that in most instances, successful clubs on the continent have had a financial helping hand.  It hasn't all been tickets and corporate - R Madrid are repeatedly bailed out by the Spanish govt, AC Milan bought success via Berlusconi's TV millions, Juventus literally have Fiat money, Bayern Munich greedily gobble up a massive portion of the Bundesliga's TV money.  Even Parma's success in the '90s was down to 'milk money'.

 

I'd much rather it was simply down to what a club earns, of course.  But it isn't - and the ones yelping loudest are the ones who've hoarded the biggest share of the pie.

I find the whole thing disgusting tbh. I hate the way a lot of the so called top clubs, just think they are entitled to be at the top forever. Completely overlooking the fact that a lot of them got there by being bankrolled at some point themselves.

And now they are too expensive for anyone to buy, and smaller clubs are being bought with the view of them rising to challenge them, they all get in a hissy fit, instead of welcoming the competition. Outrageous stuff.

21 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Based on the snippets quoted from Jacobs podcast last night, a lot of it sounded like total guesswork.

 

Edit - for what it's worth he said something like:

 

The Botman deal is more advanced than the Ekitike deal.

Botman's agent will give first refusal to Milan. It'll take weeks, not days to finalise.

The Ekitike deal is a really complex one to do.

Us and Spurs are in for Paqueta.

Diaby has been offered to us.

 

 

 

Looks like a lot of the deals we are trying to do are taking a while due to coming to an agreement on the way they are structured and the inclusion of add-ons.

Promising that the Diaby deal doesn't appear to be completely dead in the water though, as I thought was the case. Really like the look of him for that right wing spot.

2 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

He has to have a chance if he’s the best performing English LB in the league for the first half of the season. 
 

Depends on how comfortable Southgate is with playing Trippier there I suppose. And if Chilwell makes any kind of comeback. 

The weird thing about playing Trippier there is that I genuinely think it weakens both sides. 

Reece James is good, but going forward he is not as effective. He tends to not be as good getting crosses into the box or playing forward passes either, as he passes the ball backwards way too much, and when on the left Trippier, while still useful, just isn't as dangerous having to check back onto his right all the time.

36 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Nope.

 

I think Trippier & Saka will need to both get injured before Targett is in. Chilwell should be going

Saka has been too good further forward to be played at left back anymore.

No chance they lose Saks's effectiveness further forward and drop him back there ahead of taking Targett.

As for Chilwell, I think he might have it tough because he's been injured for ages, and even before then Tuchel was mucking him about and didn't seem to fancy him over Alonso.

58 minutes ago, Raconteur said:

I’m wondering if a lot of our board are too young to remember Maldini as a player. In some ways he is similar to what Shearer was for us, except whilst Shearer was the premier English striker of his time, Maldini is in the top three defenders of all time (number one for me). Chuck in the family dynasty - if Maldini has chosen Botman as The Man to buy, you’d think the lad would go to Italy in a trice.

 

Unsurprised Milan fans might be bitter losing a quality player to an “oil money” club, but frankly, after 14 years of getting shafted in the transfer market, it’s easy to let those insults slide off!

 

 

 

It's so much bigger than just Newcastle, a large part of it would be playing in the Premier League in general, which is still a major draw for most players.

The Italian league is also no joke. I think it's far tougher from a tactical point of view, which is why they tend to favour older more experienced players in general, compared to other leagues.

Looking at how things have turned out for De Ligt, who was a phenomenal prospect at Ajax, I could see how a younger Dutch compatriot would perhaps look at the Premier League as a first step instead. 

Camoranesi was talking about De Ligt being more suited to the Premier League recently actually, and I do think he would have fared much better had he come to the Premier League at the time rather than joining Juventus - https://football-italia.net/camoranesi-de-ligt-more-suited-to-premier-league-than-serie-a/

2 minutes ago, Conjo said:

World cup squad will be announced ~20th October, around 30 days before it starts. I doubt there are enough games before then for Targett to play his way into the squad with him never having been capped before.

Can't believe he wasn't called up for these recent games that have just been played, and they've been playing Trippier on the left. 

1 hour ago, McCormick said:

He plays on the right, so presumably it’s alongside him.

Yeah, think there's a chance we get two young centre backs, as there seems to be a lot of value out there at that position this summer.

Think it will be an even stronger possibility if Lascelles is moved on, which I think could well happen.

If we manage to bring in Botman and Demiral/Ibanez that would be incredible. We'd be set with two young long term talents at centre back for a long time.

19 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

 

Interesting comment towards the end of that article:

 

 

?

There is something seriously wrong with some people man. So bizarre.

Ward-Prowse already looks better at moving into space to receive the ball and passing it on the ground in between the lines than anyone else I've seen play for England in midfield in a while.

7 hours ago, STM said:

 

https://football-italia.net/tottenham-and-newcastle-ask-roma-for-ibanez/

 

Definitely a chance that we were indeed going to meet Ibanez.

 

I'm not going to lie, if that one happens I'm going to be fucking delighted with my sleuthing.

Yeah, when I saw the link yesterday, I remembered your post. Top work.

So many signings are tied to good relationships with agents. That Bruno singing immediately had us linked with Diego Carlos at the time and seemed to give us an advantage with the player, who Bruno's agent also represents, and so would be amazing if it ends up working out now for Ibanez.

1 hour ago, SUPERTOON said:

 

Can't lie I'm not as big a fan of Richarlison as a lot on here, as I'm still not even sure what his best position is.

I presume they are going to go to a different formation and drop one centre back to fit him in with the front three they played in the 3-4-2-1?

Bit risky to change the setup if so.

2 hours ago, The Prophet said:

 

Once upon a time perhaps, but Serie A had more goals per game than any other major European league over the last couple of seasons.

 

I agree its a bit slower, but it certainly isn't defensive.

That's interesting, can't say I knew that.

However, from a tactical point of view though, the defensive setups do tend to be more structured and deep I think.

Serie A is the most tactical league I think, and generally the slowest and most defensive too. Definitely the league for greater experienced players.

If I played I would be looking to play in the more open, up and down leagues in my youth when I'm at  my physical peak, and then look to move to Italy from around 28 years old if I had the chance.