AyeDubbleYoo

He's living in a fantasy world. What's so fantastic about the idea of hanging on to one of the better strikers in the world?? If we're so desperate for cost-cutting, maybe the attention should be at Alan fucking Smith and Ryan Taylor's wages - that's 80k or whatever for two players who have never performed for us. I'm pretty sure neither of those will be getting big new contracts.

Wullie, no snipe intended: can you not understand at all why the owner of NUFC at this point in time would decide that £35m would be too good to turn down, or do you just not care about the financial aspect either way?

I'm thoroughly confused. They could have offered the full 50, I'd still have told them to fuck off. Agreed, if you're arguing based on not selling at any price then it doesn't make a difference. Some people just don't think that that's either realistic or possible given our current situation. Personally, I would have rejected the bids, but I can still understand why the actual owner wouldn't in the actual real world.

You must know that makes no sense. Eh, how's that like? If it's too good to turn down, surely it's also too much to pay? If you offered Liverpool their money back, they'd fucking turn it down quick enough. But we're two different clubs in two different situations. We have an owner who wants to run the club self-sufficiently, and they had just received £50m for Torres. So it's not too much to turn down at all - it's too much to turn down if you have no ambition. That's a pretty big difference imo. Well I try to discuss things based on the reality of the situation.

You must know that makes no sense. Eh, how's that like? If it's too good to turn down, surely it's also too much to pay? If you offered Liverpool their money back, they'd fucking turn it down quick enough. But we're two different clubs in two different situations. We have an owner who wants to run the club self-sufficiently, and they had just received £50m for Torres. (I would never argue for a player sale if we were just hoarding the money in Ashley's mega-vault)

That basically puts Ireland in the centre of a 4 man midfield which would be suicide. Alan Smith looked like Vieira against him earlier in the season, it was embarrassing. Personally I wouldn't touch him with a shitty stick. I agree, I've already said that if he doesn't contribute for the next six games I wouldn't buy him. For the sake of argument I was assuming that if we sign him he will have shown some of his form from earlier seasons. (Although FWIW if Nolan can cope in a 4-man midfield any mammal with lungs should be able to have a decent go!)

Saucer of milk for the gentleman at table three.

Nah, I meant basically 4-5-1 but with HBA as a "second striker" and Ireland as an attacking CM. It would mean leaving out Nolan or Ireland, whoever wasn't performing or available.

Why do you defend them for selling him then? Because I'm not running the football club, and as I said I can make emotional decisions more easily. For example, taking into account the symbolic importance of Carroll, the fact he's Geordie, that there's a chance he might help us achieve bigger things etc etc. I'm able to focus on those things and forget about how great it would be to have an income boost of £35m. I can understand why the people who actually run the club focus on the hard-nosed business decision more. I've never blindly defended the sale, or I hope I haven't, I'm gutted that Carroll left. I can just understand why the decision was made.

How? A five-man midfield with Barton on the right and Ireland in advanced CM. With HBA off the striker. Anyway, as we've proved in the last few weeks we definitely need more depth in the squad!

I'm not someone who tries to reduce other people's opinions to stereotypes UV, I just debate the issue. I do think there were good reasons for all of those sales, which I won't go into now as we've done that discussion to death. I would never have signed Duff when we had N'Zogbia, and I would personally have held onto Andy Carroll if it was at all possible (which I don't really know). But I'm a fan and I have the luxury of making decisions with my heart as well as head. I also don't know which offers we have resisted, but there must have been some. I'm heartened by the signings we've made recently, if it continues then it won't matter that we sell the odd player as the club will gradually progress. Obviously making good cheap signings is very difficult and it's a big question mark over the next couple of transfer windows. What I don't believe is that our recent signings have only been made because we plan to sell them for a profit later.

Why?

We could easily accommodate Ben Arfa, Barton and Ireland in the same team IMO. HBA will most likely play off the striker anyway.

But doesn't that just mean that they were all brilliant buys?

Well exactly, I'm definitely not arguing that we should sell every player that we could make a profit on. All I'm saying is that £35m was a hell of a big boost to our income at a time when our income really needed a boost. And I'm not implying that you're arguing these things. A lot of people would be happy to go ahead and assume that you are though. I know, I was agreeing with yo' ass.

Well exactly, I'm definitely not arguing that we should sell every player that we could make a profit on. All I'm saying is that £35m was a hell of a big boost to our income at a time when our income really needed a boost. And also that you have to consider more than just "will we get a replacement for the money who's as good". It's far too simplistic to think like that.

I think the above post is one of the best in football chat for quite some time. THIS imo, as Dave put it so well, is the crux of the issue. We had/have these players on contracts at the club. We should only sell when we can no longer afford to pay them, or if they are no longer good enough (assuming of course, the ambition, which the club says is there, is actually there). It does hurt massively to see Carroll in a Liverpool shirt, nevermind him scoring 2 belters last night. I was watching the game with about 10 of my mates (all Liverpool supporters), and before the game started all they could talk about was how they hoped Man Utd would thrash Chelsea and knock them, as they didn't want Torres to enjoy his time at his new club. So much vitriol. By the end of the game all they could talk about was the genius signing of Carroll and what a great player he is etc... Jammy Twats the lot of them Genuine question, can you address the issue of finances at all? Or are you really able to just ignore what is happening financially and think purely about what happens on the pitch? How do you mean can I address them? As in am I taking finances into account? If the situation was so dire, and the 35m was needed to keep us from bankruptcy, then I would understand it. And if this were the case, I would expect the club to come out and express it. What we do have is uncertainty, even on Pardew's part, where even he is not sure whether this money will be spent "to a satisfactory level" that would make swallowing the pill of AC's sale easier, or even better, to move the club forward. What I mean is that you singled out Dave's post, where he said he didn't care about the bank balance, as being one of the best you'd seen for ages. I took from that that you had a similar view (i.e. only caring about the team and not the club's financial health).

I think the above post is one of the best in football chat for quite some time. THIS imo, as Dave put it so well, is the crux of the issue. We had/have these players on contracts at the club. We should only sell when we can no longer afford to pay them, or if they are no longer good enough (assuming of course, the ambition, which the club says is there, is actually there). It does hurt massively to see Carroll in a Liverpool shirt, nevermind him scoring 2 belters last night. I was watching the game with about 10 of my mates (all Liverpool supporters), and before the game started all they could talk about was how they hoped Man Utd would thrash Chelsea and knock them, as they didn't want Torres to enjoy his time at his new club. So much vitriol. By the end of the game all they could talk about was the genius signing of Carroll and what a great player he is etc... Jammy Twats the lot of them Genuine question, can you address the issue of finances at all? Or are you really able to just ignore what is happening financially and think purely about what happens on the pitch?

I guess it's possible we're just assessing him in training and not playing him on purpose, on the promise of being involved a lot next season.

Just now or since you signed up? Nah seriously, you're sound!

If you don't care about the bank balance at all then it's pretty much impossible to discuss signings. On your second point, clubs don't just buy the cheaper/better players because it is much harder to find them than spending £35m on Andy Carroll. I know you already know this. Spending money on obvious players is much easier, if you can afford it. But then we're back to discussing money again, which you think is irrelevant.

You need to think a bit more about that I reckon.

Precisely. Andy Carroll is probably going to be one of the best strikers in the world. Let's say we spend £25 million on two strikers (which probably won't happen) who's to say they will be as good as he is/could be? Who's to say they won't be? Fact is, we don't know. Also, to judge it that simplistically is stupid. There's more a football club has to consider than just the first team.

Yep, sadly there's no doubt in my mind that he'll be amazing for Liverpool, especially if they sort their midfield out a bit.