mrmojorisin75

A fundamental error that he quickly accepted he had made. I don't expect that you'll ever stop referencing it from now on though, probably applying it to everyone and anyone who dares to criticise the previous board. not the sort of error that people who know owt about the club would make, I suspect it was all just through eagerness to slate FS for something, or anything, which is the point. I've said the previous board made mistakes, they must have done, otherwise we would have won the European Cup. My point is that replacing them would be very difficult and so far the actions - or non action of Ashley and Mort, in particular the very definite feeling that they have operated a "sell to buy" policy is a very dangerous one and one that any board with ambition would not pursue, especially at the lower spending levels that we have operated at since they came. I think instead of claiming that I have a go at anyone who dares to criticise the board, people would be better off taking a more objective look at the current one, and look a bit more carefully at the facts I back up my comments with, which most definitely show that they in fact did a lot better than a lot of people claim. I suspect more than a few people may be realising this by now but just won't admit it. Edit. I have no intention of bringing this up with SJ again, now he has acknowledged his error, because you can't get fairer than that. Any fair minded person couldn't criticize the current board for their spending on players since they took over the club. I wouldn't have trusted Allardyce, a manager they inherited, to spend a large lump of my cash either. The time to judge the current board will be at the end of the summer transfer spending frenzy when their true intentions for the club will be known. Always assuming we stay up of course. NE5, you use the word a lot in your posts, could you quantify what you consider "ambition" in football, particularly with reference to NUFC what is ambition to you, i'm honestly interested

The guts of your argument is the board didn't have the gall to sack him at the start of the season or the stomache to let him continue indefinately? The "manner" of Robson's sacking as a deterent to getting a new manager in is a massive red herring. When has the manner of the previous manager's sacking stopped a new manager taking the job? Houllier -> Benitez? Ranieri ->Mourinho? Jol -> Ramos? Fair enough, pick and choose what you want to reply to. Thats not my point at all, the first point and major point is that they shouldnt of sacked him in the first place because he hadnt done anything footballing wise to merit a sacking. By sacking him, the board sent a message saying that in essentially the club requires CL qualification as a minimum. The second part to my argument is indeed the manner and circumstances, ie finishing 5th, being a legend and being treated abdominably whilst in the job, being undermined and being openely humiliated. The examples you give arent particulary good to be honest, so no, its not a red herring, like a said we dont have the history to have such a lavish criteria for these sort of managers. Liverpool - fanstastic history, decent resources wherent achieving the big one they wanted Chelsea - Amazing resources, wanted the best, the best came. Spurs - Had a modernized set up and a club that had finished 5th twice, was looking to exploit there new set up and heavy investment went for the best at a crucial time for them. The only club remotely similar to our situation in the examples you give are Spurs and even then it isnt that similar, they had a new set up which thy were looking to exploit. Nufc didnt have anything to offer that those 3 didnt, we didnt have amazing resources, we arent considered one of the major clubs in the world and we didnt have a new set up to exploit. the main crust of this, which you still fail to grasp fredbob no matter how many times it is explained, is that no other board in the last 50 years has attempted to tap our fanbase and get anywhere near to our potential than the Halls and Shepherd. You even went so far as to say we shouldn't waste money in the transfer window, agreeing with Chris Mort when he said we wouldn't be spending any money on anybody but players for the future, despite us struggling, looking at a relegation fight, and then hypocritically repeating as in your above posts that you then think we are such a big club, that we have an automatic right to a champions League place. You seriously think that the Halls and Shepherd brought decades of success and trophies to an end don't you ? i've said this before mr NE5, and i'll say it again to see if anyone listens this time: you talk 100% sense about say 5% of the whole picture why anyone argues with you about the 5% is continually lost on me, there's no counter argument...shame you won't cross over into the other 95% then things might get interesting what is the "other 95%" calling women dogs ? Going to brothels ? Eating pies ? Being a fat b****** ? Making daft statements in public now and again ? All pretty much irrelevant. As for appointing Souness, bad mistake but everybody makes mistakes. The most important thing is he/they backed their appointed managers to the hilt. The new board are making mistakes too, they have made many, the most costly of which - may yet - and it may also be deliberate policy - cause an absolute disaster, and far worse than any mistake the old board did. the other 95% is anything not board related, which you rarely seem to get involved in...say discussing potential signings, tactics, formations, songs...anything else non related to the boardroom(s) at any given point in history i'm backing you up, your arguments are generally sound and i've found myself becoming more and more convinced by them over time to a degree, but they are extremely limited and that's kind of my point as i say it baffles me when people try to pick holes in it, there really aren't any

I agree, to an extent - its easy to throw the younger players in when things are going ok - but to throw them in when things are going badly, and we are suffering fairly regular heavy defeats, then it could crush their morale/confidence. On the flipside though, the experienced proven players haven't been been performing to well either, and are suffering the same confidence/morale issues - but hopefully the next win we get will help turn things round. Not that I see that first win coming tomorrow, like??!!! don't buy that...as alluded to here the experienced players we've got aren't up to it, that's not a matter of opinion that's a fact not sure what a journeyman senegalese international can add in 10 games that someone who has spent years and years at the club can't? it's not like we're signing maldini or something is it? zog, milner, taylor are 3 of the better players we have and they're all the same age as edgar (he's not a bairn man) - beye and faye are the only older players doing anything (maybe owen) but this diatta boy isn't going to be that good lets face it anyway it's a wider point for me, namely that for all the talk about youth development we've scoured the world for the first 32 year old african defender we can get our hands on when what we really need is a midfielder...doesn't bode well, classic keegan

The guts of your argument is the board didn't have the gall to sack him at the start of the season or the stomache to let him continue indefinately? The "manner" of Robson's sacking as a deterent to getting a new manager in is a massive red herring. When has the manner of the previous manager's sacking stopped a new manager taking the job? Houllier -> Benitez? Ranieri ->Mourinho? Jol -> Ramos? Fair enough, pick and choose what you want to reply to. Thats not my point at all, the first point and major point is that they shouldnt of sacked him in the first place because he hadnt done anything footballing wise to merit a sacking. By sacking him, the board sent a message saying that in essentially the club requires CL qualification as a minimum. The second part to my argument is indeed the manner and circumstances, ie finishing 5th, being a legend and being treated abdominably whilst in the job, being undermined and being openely humiliated. The examples you give arent particulary good to be honest, so no, its not a red herring, like a said we dont have the history to have such a lavish criteria for these sort of managers. Liverpool - fanstastic history, decent resources wherent achieving the big one they wanted Chelsea - Amazing resources, wanted the best, the best came. Spurs - Had a modernized set up and a club that had finished 5th twice, was looking to exploit there new set up and heavy investment went for the best at a crucial time for them. The only club remotely similar to our situation in the examples you give are Spurs and even then it isnt that similar, they had a new set up which thy were looking to exploit. Nufc didnt have anything to offer that those 3 didnt, we didnt have amazing resources, we arent considered one of the major clubs in the world and we didnt have a new set up to exploit. the main crust of this, which you still fail to grasp fredbob no matter how many times it is explained, is that no other board in the last 50 years has attempted to tap our fanbase and get anywhere near to our potential than the Halls and Shepherd. You even went so far as to say we shouldn't waste money in the transfer window, agreeing with Chris Mort when he said we wouldn't be spending any money on anybody but players for the future, despite us struggling, looking at a relegation fight, and then hypocritically repeating as in your above posts that you then think we are such a big club, that we have an automatic right to a champions League place. You seriously think that the Halls and Shepherd brought decades of success and trophies to an end don't you ? i've said this before mr NE5, and i'll say it again to see if anyone listens this time: you talk 100% sense about say 5% of the whole picture why anyone argues with you about the 5% is continually lost on me, there's no counter argument...shame you won't cross over into the other 95% then things might get interesting

i mean fair enough the lad might not be the next beckenbaur but surely we should be giving people like him a chance rather than scouring the dregs of world football for any defender out of contract doesn't signal a change in club policy as such does it? same old same old really

can someone remind me what david edgar did wrong exactly? i seem to remember him marking ronaldo out of a game and scoring a goal on his debut, then playing one or two other decent games was he central in the brum home 5-1 fiasco 'cause i thought that was huntington? i only ask 'cause he must be packing his bags right now...

me too...if someone has the vision to put him there soon he might settle into it, play a beardsley role although he'd never get that good of course he's also got a decent shot as we've seen, played more central we might get more out of it... milner middle, zog left and a pacey right winger has potential if you ask me

aye true...thought about zog but he runs into too many blind alleys, i'd fancy milner or duff to jink past the first man then look for a pass 'cause they know they'd be stuck, zog doesn't have that he thinks he can beat 'em all i seem to remember under souness milner played a pre season "up front" (kind of off the striker) due to us lacking anyone else and he had a nice little knack of coming in on late runs and scoring, looked like he had potential there to me

actually, being half asleep i've just now realised i'm arguing with you over completely the wrong thing...i wasn't really saying his grammatical/contextual use of the word agenda was wrong, more the fact he (nor anyone else) shouldn't be using it 'cause it's a preposterous idea must remember to wake up before writing crap You still intend on writing crap then? intents got nothing to do with it, always manage to succeed, so actually i should just stay asleep then... see?!

i'm for milner at the head of a diamond, oba and owen up front, butt/zog/faye as the other 3 in midfield milner is comfortable enough on the ball and a decent enough passer (lets ignore crossing) to look for passes that utilise obas pace and owens runs he's also got the work rate we'd need playing that formation

actually, being half asleep i've just now realised i'm arguing with you over completely the wrong thing...i wasn't really saying his grammatical/contextual use of the word agenda was wrong, more the fact he (nor anyone else) shouldn't be using it 'cause it's a preposterous idea must remember to wake up before writing crap

That's a different thing though. If people think people have agendas. The usage of the word is correct in the context. It doesn't make them correct about the agendas existing. Depends what you're saying, really. jesus, this is turning to shit, but his use of agenda (and the wider use when i see it here) has to imply some secret purpose/plan, otherwise it's not an agenda is it? it's just someone who "need(s) to throw s*** in the direction of the new board at every opportunity"

your basic brilliance right there...

you're right it doesn't, but he does say "ones" meaning more than one what possible agenda could 'x' amount of individuals hope to acheive by coming on THIS message board and slating the new owners? frankly i find it easier to believe that there are people sent from shadowy consortiums to undermine the board on here, than i do to believe there are indiviuals sitting tapping their keyboard deluded enough to think anything said on here means shit either proposition is a joke basically, hence my pulling the general use of the word agenda

a·gen·da /əˈdʒɛndə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-jen-duh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun, formally a plural of. agendum, but usually used as a singular with plural. -das or -da. a list, plan, outline, or the like, of things to be done, matters to be acted or voted upon, etc.: The chairman says we have a lengthy agenda this afternoon. i beg to differ

It's obvious to most people, and common sense, but it won't stop two types of critics: the ones with an agenda who just need to throw s*** in the direction of the new board at every opportunity or those who get frustrated easily and want signings...any signings ..now now now! love the liberal use of the word agenda on here; who on this board could possibly have an agenda...having an agenda would imply they hoped to acheive something, right? are you trying to tell me certain people on the board have been sent by powers on high to start undermining the board or some such bollox? as for the now now now pish we're all talking about more than a month ago, the windows shut, who is talking about now? if you can't see we need players on the park maybe you're the one with an agenda...? ooooooooooh

the change in performances, and I agree they haven't been "drastic" but they HAVE been a canny bit better, have convinced me that KK will do the job again, providing he has the backing of the board and the time to do it. The spirit on saturday on the back of the last few weeks was excellent, as was the determination to try and force the game, apply pressure etc all Keegans methods. There is no doubt that we lack the quality to make these tactics really count, but it IS the way to play if you are aiming for success, and he's doing it already. This is the big question though. There is a case for playing to strengths, many teams recognise they don't have the ability to play an open game and so play a tighter game to get the points. We maybe could be doing this but it isn't Keegans way. The "tactical nous" people may jump on this and they do have a point in the current situation. Whatever happens I'm backing Keegan, because with support of his board, he'll leave us better off than where he found us and if the unthinkable happens I won't blame him, everything we have as a club now is down to him and he deserves the slack to get on with restoring the club back to where he left it the last time. Very sensible post. I too have see enough from KK to suggest the old magic can be reborn. Providing the two things you mention happen, A) We beat the drop and B) He gets the correct funds. agree that staying up plus keegan getting some money to spend will see us improve a lot next season to me he's started doing what we all were crying out for since souness really...play a settled simple formation, players in the right positions, and get them passing the ball better, nothing complicated... put better players in the team doing the same things and we'll improve - we'll always be flawed under keegan 'cause he simply doesn't have a clue how to make defenders defend though, so away day wins will be few and far between

i'm gonna blame illegal immigrants, they take all the jobs don't they?

Seems to me people want to whine about the situation for the sake of whining. Since Keegan arrived there's been a drastic improvement in tactics, performances and passion. People whining have no suggestions who we should have signed . The people we approached goes to show how loathe players are to come. If you blame Keegan and the fortnight he had with an open window when he arrived for our current position rather than Allardyce and the 8 months he took to build the most tepid team I've seen at St James', you're a moron. "a drastic improvement in tactics, performances and passion"...jesus christ, reading from the KK/Mort book of propaganda there are you? what is it, no wins 17 conceded and 3 scored in 7 games? tactially we have not improved, keegan is getting them back to a basic passing game but tactically he has no idea...if he did he'd do something diifferent at anfield instead of throwing the same players out in the same formation against a superior team to be slaughtered, lets see what he does there performances and passion fine, not results though eh? you mention allardyce, keegan should not be immune to the criticism allardyce took...as i said keegan has reinstilled a basic passing game (his only apparent talent tactically) but is failing where it matters allardyce made a mess of the preceding 8 months, fine, but look at all of the other clubs who brought in new managers - they've all had improved results and signed players to try to improve things, kev's done neither Kev's also played Man United, and Arsenal away (twice) in the first 7 games. No excuses against Villa, but against Boro and Blackburn we were robbed. Give the bloke a chance. Just quoting the stats only tells half the story... if in 3 games time we're still without a win you might have an argument. As of right now, you don't. no, i have an argument and you've just read it... what sort of defence is that? oh we played someone good there so don't count that result/performance, if we were just gonna write off 'x' amount of games against good teams what did we sack allardyce for? he'd have at least maybe bored his way to a couple of extra draws along the way jesus, he was brought in to improve both wasn't he? i didn't see a great deal of sympathy for allardyce when we lost, it was all down to him and him alone...now we're still losing it's only the players? come on [we were not robbed against boro by the way, we were very very lucky to escpae with a point in the end]

Seems to me people want to whine about the situation for the sake of whining. Since Keegan arrived there's been a drastic improvement in tactics, performances and passion. People whining have no suggestions who we should have signed . The people we approached goes to show how loathe players are to come. If you blame Keegan and the fortnight he had with an open window when he arrived for our current position rather than Allardyce and the 8 months he took to build the most tepid team I've seen at St James', you're a moron. "a drastic improvement in tactics, performances and passion"...jesus christ, reading from the KK/Mort book of propaganda there are you? what is it, no wins 17 conceded and 3 scored in 7 games? tactially we have not improved, keegan is getting them back to a basic passing game but tactically he has no idea...if he did he'd do something diifferent at anfield instead of throwing the same players out in the same formation against a superior team to be slaughtered, lets see what he does there performances and passion fine, not results though eh? you mention allardyce, keegan should not be immune to the criticism allardyce took...as i said keegan has reinstilled a basic passing game (his only apparent talent tactically) but is failing where it matters allardyce made a mess of the preceding 8 months, fine, but look at all of the other clubs who brought in new managers - they've all had improved results and signed players to try to improve things, kev's done neither

ba ha ha

what financial stability like? he owns the club, has paid the debt off and spent little of the oodles of cash every club gets by virtue of being in the PL these days lets say we spent 20m in jan and went down, i doubt it'd make ashley walk away therefore all we'd have done would be to give it a shot...as it is we've left oourselves open to accusations of inactivity in the face of the inevitable, which is far worse the fact is 20m on the right players would have virtually guaranteed us staying up christs sake Your damn right "christs sake". Did you not see Keegan chasing players? Did you not read about Woodgate rejecting us? f****** hell, maybe you think he should have paid £10M apiece for Bernard and Srnicek just so he could say he spent something on someone. f****** spoilt brats man. Again with extreme scenario's, pathetic really. Aye. With Barnes in the team we'd have got some points out of Man U, Arsenal and Villa though. Jesus Wept. We'll do a Leeds. We'd put the club in financial jeopardy. It would be like FS. We can only sign panic buys. Were spoilt for wanting new players to avoid relegation or the battle. You must want to sign £10m Bernard just so we have someone Ever decreasing time for KK to sign players. Actually half a window, but it gets smaller in Happy's world. Honestly, its all just bullshit really. As for Barnes, why not say he could have made a difference in the Bolton, Boro or Blackburn games? Why? Coz happy's on a mission to pick out the worst case scenarios to back up his point of view. Because we played well in those games numb-nuts. You're saying we needed to sign people to lift the squad in the games where they're s***. Who else was screaming come and get me apart from Barnes then? jesus no-one screams come and get me do they? there's such a thing as making a deal happen...if we'd signed a similar manager to ramos or mourinho they'd have had a list of players as long as your arm who we could sign that would improve our team immediately, of that i have no doubt we signed keegan, our inactivity in the market speaks for itself Mourinho? Are you for fuckin real? Or do you spend your days outside the club shop waiting for SSN to come along? Ramos did well to win the cup. Done nowt in the league. i said LIKE them, meaning someone in touch with the fucking game pal...obviously mourinho wouldn't have come unless we paid him crazy, crazy money, even then doubtful the point stands, you're ignoring it though simply 'cause it suits you and you've no argument whatsoever

what financial stability like? he owns the club, has paid the debt off and spent little of the oodles of cash every club gets by virtue of being in the PL these days lets say we spent 20m in jan and went down, i doubt it'd make ashley walk away therefore all we'd have done would be to give it a shot...as it is we've left oourselves open to accusations of inactivity in the face of the inevitable, which is far worse the fact is 20m on the right players would have virtually guaranteed us staying up christs sake Your damn right "christs sake". Did you not see Keegan chasing players? Did you not read about Woodgate rejecting us? f****** hell, maybe you think he should have paid £10M apiece for Bernard and Srnicek just so he could say he spent something on someone. f****** spoilt brats man. aye righto...the fact our manager can't identify players WE NEED makes me a spoilt brat does it? you're about the only one here who doesn't accept we desperately, desperately needed new players in...haven't results bourne that out? he's been in narnia (as someone amusingly said earlier) for so long how was he gonna identify good players or the weaknesses in our squad? he wasn't was he so he went for woodgate who was still good 4 years ago when keegan was in touch, fucknose who told him about barnes, probably found a copy of shoot at the train station or something when keegan was appointed the only thing that went through my head was "well at least he'll sign some players"...there were simply no other reason we'd appoint him i could think of...we didn't sign anyone and now we are where we are he was appointed 14 days or something before the end of the window....give me funds and 14 days i guaran-f******-tee you i'd have found 3-4 players that would have had a positive effect on our performances I'll bet you could on FM2008 by resetting without saving. weak mate, really really weak

what financial stability like? he owns the club, has paid the debt off and spent little of the oodles of cash every club gets by virtue of being in the PL these days lets say we spent 20m in jan and went down, i doubt it'd make ashley walk away therefore all we'd have done would be to give it a shot...as it is we've left oourselves open to accusations of inactivity in the face of the inevitable, which is far worse the fact is 20m on the right players would have virtually guaranteed us staying up christs sake Your damn right "christs sake". Did you not see Keegan chasing players? Did you not read about Woodgate rejecting us? f****** hell, maybe you think he should have paid £10M apiece for Bernard and Srnicek just so he could say he spent something on someone. f****** spoilt brats man. Again with extreme scenario's, pathetic really. Aye. With Barnes in the team we'd have got some points out of Man U, Arsenal and Villa though. Jesus Wept. We'll do a Leeds. We'd put the club in financial jeopardy. It would be like FS. We can only sign panic buys. Were spoilt for wanting new players to avoid relegation or the battle. You must want to sign £10m Bernard just so we have someone Ever decreasing time for KK to sign players. Actually half a window, but it gets smaller in Happy's world. Honestly, its all just bullshit really. As for Barnes, why not say he could have made a difference in the Bolton, Boro or Blackburn games? Why? Coz happy's on a mission to pick out the worst case scenarios to back up his point of view. Because we played well in those games numb-nuts. You're saying we needed to sign people to lift the squad in the games where they're s***. Who else was screaming come and get me apart from Barnes then? jesus no-one screams come and get me do they? there's such a thing as making a deal happen...if we'd signed a similar manager to ramos or mourinho they'd have had a list of players as long as your arm who we could sign that would improve our team immediately, of that i have no doubt we signed keegan, our inactivity in the market speaks for itself

what financial stability like? he owns the club, has paid the debt off and spent little of the oodles of cash every club gets by virtue of being in the PL these days lets say we spent 20m in jan and went down, i doubt it'd make ashley walk away therefore all we'd have done would be to give it a shot...as it is we've left oourselves open to accusations of inactivity in the face of the inevitable, which is far worse the fact is 20m on the right players would have virtually guaranteed us staying up christs sake Your damn right "christs sake". Did you not see Keegan chasing players? Did you not read about Woodgate rejecting us? f****** hell, maybe you think he should have paid £10M apiece for Bernard and Srnicek just so he could say he spent something on someone. f****** spoilt brats man. Again with extreme scenario's, pathetic really. Aye. With Barnes in the team we'd have got some points out of Man U, Arsenal and Villa though. Jesus Wept. he's got you on this extreme examples thing mind, you're all over the place...