fredbob

well yeh, fair enough, not sure whose point that proves but.....

Mark Hughes also strikes me as an intense, sharp minded individual.

Are we talking about international managers? Because if we are, then i can quite easily see why Shearer would be successful. But comparing club managers to international managers is pretty pointless, they are completely different ball games. There arent too many top class footballers who have transferred to club management well, i can only really think of Rijkaard of recent years whose done anything substantial on the club arena. Mark Hughes is another manager doing well so far, i dont doubt that he will bea success for the fututre either, my point is is that there is always exceptions to the rules, i'm sure i could quite easily names plenty of top class footballers who havent dont well at club football, and like i have said, it could partly be due to the fact that they played on instinct and had to think less about the game, if you look across the world game, the top club managers generally had poor careers as footballers and ofen started in lowering coaching systems, learing there trade and being able to see football from a different perspective, beingpart of a successful team, i dont think a top players whose played at the peak of the game for 15 years gets the see that perspective and misses out on vital experience.

I dunno...i think shearer is gonna be a poor manager to be honest, and i'm obvioulsy basing this on very little like everyone else, but i just dont think he has the intensity or drive to want to have to think about football 24hours a day. I just dont see him being capable of being able to thouroughly prepare a side to the extent that Mourihno, Wenger or Fergie. These are top class, managers who are capable and willing to obsess about football to the tiniest degree and its that obsession which has proven to be successful for them and there team. Sure shearer has the passion in abundance, but does he have the intensity to be able to dominate a team and get them playing the ways he wants them to. I dont think so, am a great believer in the that top players dont make top managers and that is, in my opinion because they play by instinct, they spend there entire career playing by those instincts and when it comes to top class managers, instinct doesnt cut it at all. Being respectful as i possibly can be, i think you need a superior level of intelligence to be a top class manager. Respectively speaking, shearer has never struck me as being overly sharp minded. *puts tin hat on*

To be fair, so would i, though i dont think jose would take the england job, he's a man of his word and he's said he wouldnt manage england so i'll take that as gospel, i just wish he was back in the premiership again. Theres a quote from allardyce saying that he cant take the job cos his chairman, unlike his last chairmen isnt offereing the oppurtunity to do so, now i read into that, is that he still wants the job badly, now in my little world, i'd like to see Mort let him go for it then take Jose! That would be so sweet!

I think the england job has got capello written all over it. In fact i cant think of a single reason why it wouldnt be...

good possiblity of seeing 433 for the next few weeks!

So, who do you think would benefit the current team? Why? What about the teams under GS and GR? Can come from any era! I happen to be from the Sky Television era so... I'd go for 1) Ginola 2) Shearer (We do miss him) 3) Beardsly

nothing more than a stupid asshole with double standards, harping on about the bollocks that he's doing yet at the same time encouraging the growth of the Champions League to the elitist few for monetary reasons. If he really wanted to put the game before before money, he'd encourage the doing away with the Champions League group group system bollocks. And the UEFA Cup proposals. He's as big a w****** as Trevor Brooking is at the FA. Both of whom have their current position because of their prestige as players. Which - as an aside but relevant point - completely blows a hole in the theory that some idiots have that people who know about football make better footballing based appointments / decisons - I'm talking specifically about people who think apponting these DOF's can somehow guarantee that whoever appoints such a thing can guarantee success and a good appointment. Yes, Baggy, I mean you. You never did reply to the point I made that if everybody appoints a DOF, how can they all win the premiership or the FA Cup mackems.gif Fantastically hilarious. Especially in view of the fact that your very own Spurs have got nowhere near winning either, despite employing your dream setup mackems.gif Am not being funny, but is it just me or have you managed to change a thread about Platini lambasting foriegn ownership into a personal slanging match about Directors of football? How long did it take for you to think of a way to do this? I like the way you call out alot of people on this board for not replying to your mails...is that served with a big tablespoon of irony or what?!?

yeh exactly, i questioned this in another thread. If he's really struggling to fit a player Owen in his system how was he ever going to fit him in the england squad, the same goes for Rooney for that matter.

Isnt Edmilson defensive? To be honest id have a team built around him, just like SBR did with Shearer, Owens gonna be too big a burden on SA, there is no way that SA can fit in Owen into his team. Arshavin has looked like a good little player though, i like the look of him, would like to see a young defensive midfielder though.

I dont understand the logic in payin premium for english players, i really cant, some of the prices quoted for some of the english players are ridiculous, i just cant understand who thought it would ever be a good idea to pay 16m for Bent when most of the world were thinking "crikey, 10 mill for Bent?? bit steep" what is it about english players that make them more expensive? Does anyone actually have a good idea as to why?

Well to be fair £500k per year was s*** money for a manager of his calibre, but dint he except that offer in the end? SA is on £3m bythewqy. He didn't accept the initial offer but accepted an improved offer. It was the same offer, with additional bonuses if he kept the team up I think? I dont even know why we're debating this point, the guy is a legend, i preferred him to Keegan, without him though we would of been Blackburn part II. (Granted blackburn arent doin too bad of late but...)

Well to be fair £500k per year was shit money for a manager of his calibre, but dint he except that offer in the end? SA is on £3m bythewqy.

Antagonistic prick

I personally thinking the coaching and management set up needs to be looked at. We only have 2 or 3 english managers who can be considered premier managers at decent level, and out of them SA is the most advanced. Wenger changed the premiership for the better and Mourihno took it to the next level. If the coaching and training of managers improved at grassroots then the rest will follow. We need apadtable intelligent managers. All this "too many foriegner" is bullshit and is being used to deflect criticism from where its needed, we have one the the best international squads in the world, and looking at potential effect of "too many foriegners" for the future is just a cynical attempt to cover the ineptitude of the current squad.

id go for Jean Makoun, Quaresma, and Adriano assuming SA could sort him out. Those 3 seems quite realistic.

Pace hasnt really been a feature in SA side whereas graft has, if SA does eventually get the 433 sysyem working do not be surprised if Zog finds himself on the bench. I see the front 3 being the source of all of SA problems, i perosonally think that Sam would like to play Duff Viduka and Smith as his front 3, it sounds contreversial but Smith is exactly the type of player SA would want playing as a forward, hard working, strong, threat up front yet will muck in with defensive duties when play dictates it, Duff has played in that position and has been successful in that position as well, he knows that left forward position better than anyone else in the squad.

I absolutely agree, i think htis squad defnintely needs to play 442, the reason i say its transistional is because he wont be able to get the forwards he wants in the jan transfer window, and so he'll need to get them in the summer. I also dont think SA will be able to play 442, i just dont think he can implement a style of play to fit the system in order to utilizes the 3 qulaity strikers he has.

My bad

Kinda have to disagree with that, Real Madrid have been suffering that 'theory' for years now. For me, its a cae of tryin to enforce a system of play which is uncomfortable to the players that he has at his disposable, his ideal system at home would be 433, now anyone on this board could fill about 8/9 of those positions without hesitation "with the best players" but if you look at the Bolton set up at the end, you see that the players he had all fitted in his system perfectly. For example, if you look at the forward line of Stellios, Davies/Anelka(?), Diouf. (Cant remember how Anelka fitted in), you have 3 forwards who have roles which suit there style of play. Stellios are the hard working grafting forwards who get back and niggle, and you have the out and out striker who is able to knock on the ball for long balls while the 2 forwards make advanced runs, Now if you look at our frontline, we have no one like that. I.e, grafting forwards who work non stop, support the midfield and are able to get in the box and make advanced runs, we dont have that, we have owen and Martins, they certainly arent this type of player. Now you might try and argue that Zog and Milner could play there, and again i dont agree , when defence turns to attack and you require 2 forwards who are able to play inside the opposition box, put themselves about physically and provide a potent threat, you still arent gonna get that from Zog and Milner, whereas you will get that from Diouf and Stellios. For me its the frontline that is causing the problems for the rest of the squad, if he wanted to play the 3 in midfield then he be able to do that, no problms, he has the players to do so, the backline whilst not exactly organsied and water tight definetely has a very good combinations of players. So, for me its a case of Allardyce not being able to play the type of system he wants, his style of play is not suited to the system he's trying to implement. Its a big problem because SA is specialized at playing one type of system and play. If you were to ask Ferguson or Wenger to play percentage long ball football they'd fail, when Mourihno was asked to play open attacking football he struggled to implement it. The same thing is happening with SA, he's either tryong to play his style into an unfamiliar system and struggling (Long ball, 442 Sunderland?) or he's trying to play an unfamilar style of play with an unfmailar system (passing game, 442 Reading). As of yt he actually hasnt had one game to play his preffered system with the right players.

Shearer?

My thoughts on Big Sam are borne out of close study of him, his methods and watching a hell of a lot of Bolton over the years because I've always thought "he'd do for us" so I like to think I have a good understanding of his methods and what not and an insight into how he thinks. My next victim target is Aidy Boothroyd. I don't buy into Big Sam's comments about Smith replacing Dyer, as a body maybe, but not positionally. I think he was signed as a striker with the possible intention of letting Ameobi go eventually and maybe to replace Viduka long-term, or both. I think Martins carries arguably our biggest goal threat so I agree, however he does require a number of chances to get on the scoresheet, perhaps more than Owen, and Sam being into his stats and whatnot, perhaps Owen just gets the nod. I'd ditch Owen though and start Martins alongside either Smith or Viduka because of his pace, explosiveness and his ability to harass which Owen rarely does. Regarding Sam whinging it - well this is one job that will find him out so we'll know if he really is whinging it the longer he is in the job. His Bolton record suggests to me though he's not as daft as he looks. There really is a lot of method to his madness. I don't think Smith was brought in with the idea of letting Ameobi go, I remember quotes from Allardyce when he spoke of his four strikers naming Owen, Viduka, Oba and Shola, he also spoke about English target men and said there was only Crouch, Davies and Ameobi out there. I stand corrected then. I actually thought Ameobi would do well under Big Sam but doesn't seem to get a look in, perhaps the manager doesn't rate him. Interesting he talked about Crouch, maybe we'll be after him in January? Would be a good signing and while this may shock some I'd personally trade Owen for him if that was the deal. On Crouch. I'f you're going to play like monkeys you buy a zoo. I don't get the stick Crouch gets Scores goals - check Creates goals - check Works hard - check Has good technique - check Good option up front - check Like Sam, he's not as daft as he looks, although ideally I'd prefer a more rounded striker at the club but I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up if we were interested as he's a good proven player ideal for 4-3-3. Pace and movement the lynchpin of the 433 for a forward nocheck. Ah that old chestnut, pace. I prefer mobility and intelligence myself which Crouch has. Centrally pace isn't too important anyway, Davies never had any and Bolton were successful using 4-3-3. Providing you have pace either side of course. I've said before that Crouch playing the same role as Davies did at Bolton would be unstoppable in the air, he's not the best when he needs to get power and direction into a header but for flick on's we'll struggle to find better. Being great in the air is important if you as the striker want to score goals from crosses ala Shearer or Sir Les but if you want to cause havoc for the opposition and create openings for team-mates you don't need to be great in the air, just an ability to flick it on and as Allardyce is big on the second ball, what better player for such a job? Who's he flicking it to out of interest?...All the play is behind him if he's just received a hoof from Enrique. Barton I imagine will be used in a similar way to how Nolan was, the main support of attack from midfield. And if we are playing 4-3-3 I imagine there will be players either side of Crouch, pacy players to get in between the full-backs. It isn't just about flick-ons though, it's about holding the ball up and having a presence centrally to focus opposition minds away from other areas. I see. What worries me about all this systems lark is that we don't have one single forward who has one clue on how to play in a 433 apart from Duff who looks like he's going to be the next permacrock. Then we teach the players we've got to play that way, similar to how he trained Diouf and Anelka to play it when he was at Bolton. That would be ideal but the two players you mention have assets our forwards can only dream about apart from the fact they have a lot of football intelligence compared to the likes of Martins and Milner and the still learning zoggy. In a 433 the forwards are always needing to analyse the game and re-positon so they can make the extra man (the core of the system). We have Owen (goalhanger) Martins (derranged run anywhere shoot if poss). Not ideal. The crux of our problems. Big Sam can't do what he wants to do, what he knows will work and bring us rewards, because he doesn't have the players. He has tried to fit them in but it's clearly not going to work. He's even compromised and went to 4-4-2 but even then things are not going too well. It's clear to me Allardyce isn't comfortable with 4-4-2 just like his players aren't comfortable with 4-3-3 and sadly for us, they are not too comfortable at 4-4-2 either it seems. We'll know more in January and the following summer. Why cant he do what he wants to do? He had the summer to recruit the players he wanted and needed and he used it very wisely. I always thought of SA as a manager who doesnt compromise and isnt afraid to drop anyone. I personnaly think that its a simple case of this season being transistion.

Why isnt SA able to implement his preffered 433?

I think its fair to say that Owen is causing most of the problems for SA. Its his value to the team which is hindering the flexibilty of SA's team selection. This seems pretty accepted amongst the board, and i think its correct. My issue with this belief though is that had SA got the england job he'd of encountered the same problems, if not twice as bad. The idea that this supposed top class manager isnt able to implement a 442 so that the team we put out is competitive at least just doesnt sit right with me. I dont understand whats going on to be fair, this squad is the best since SBR, he's bought 7 very good players. And in his limited time hasnt really brought on anyones game, Zog could possibly be the exception to this although he has always been capable of this. Having said all this i feel that SA nees the time. He's already done so muh f the club.