fredbob
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As he bids to bring new players in during the January transfer window, Newcastle manager Joe Kinnear says he has "a full scout force [out there] and they are on red alert, going to various parts of the world".
But he insists the club will not panic-buy: "Finances are tight and we have to make the correct decisions with people. Therefore we won't be rushed into anything." (Newcastle Evening Chronicle, 1300 GMT)
Im tired of the bullshit that comes out that mans mouth. I wish he'd shut the fuck up, i dont beleive a word that that man says.
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As a man for man replacement, is he better than Milner? If so, then its a winner.
I'd say they're equally inadequate, although I've never seen him play for Schalke.. I have no complaints on this transfer, as long as we keep N'Zogbia
Its still a winner then. £12m for milner or £0m for this chap.
it's not a winner if he's motivation is gone a la Duff, Smith and Viduka and yet keeps on starting games
Touche
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As a man for man replacement, is he better than Milner? If so, then its a winner.
I'd say they're equally inadequate, although I've never seen him play for Schalke.. I have no complaints on this transfer, as long as we keep N'Zogbia
Its still a winner then. £12m for milner or £0m for this chap.
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Are you suggesting the club generates no money?
Im suggesting that the money the clubs generating is being eaten by wages. As we dont have a benefactor type owner, surely the most sensible thing is to reduce the wage levels to a sensible level, freeing up money and adding it to the supposed £20m ~Ashley was affording, as opposed to relying on the £20m Ashley was supposedley affording us and adding to that wage bill.
Financially spekaing, Spurs are really doing the business.
They have a low wage bill, yet they arent compromising the quality of the squad, they're also investing in players who dont lose there value too much, we're in a position where our wage bill is crippling our potential to spend becasue no matter how mch we're spending we're always adding to an already inflated wage bill which further spas resources.
Throwing money at the problem wont solve a thing becasue our starting point is so precarious. A great man once said, ambition first then balance the books later, well when is later?
The only high earners left at the club from before Ashley was the major shareholder are Given, Martins, Owen, Duff & Butt. Say that's a total of £350k/w or about £18m/year. That's the same as the increase in TV revenue we received in 07-08 (£18m). If we still have an overly large wage bill now, it's of Ashley's making. People can't keep blaming the old board forever.
I'd be surprised if Spurs haven't caught us up in wages tbh, although if their wages are structured more around win bonuses than basic pay they may be in for a cheap year.
True, but the high earners that he signed himself was under ther recommendation of SA, i.e pre structure, maybe the structure was implemented becasue of this.(I remeber Mort coming out a stating how much we'd added to our wage bill which was a strange move - this to me highlighted their warieness on the wage bill).
There are are 2 ways to lower the wage ratio and that is by incresing revenue (europe and CL qualification) or by lowering the wage bill. The only way to achievie the former (CL qualification) would be to gamble and invest heavily, like the old board did (to their credit -wrong manager though) and it failed, something i belive we're paying the price for now. As investing heavily is a massive gamble which would possilby put the club under futrther strain should we fail to achieve, the only other sensible option would be to lower the wage bill which is what he appears to be doing, he's also tried to implement a system whereby we can attract manily foriegn talent of good quality but lower wages. We havent compromised on quality (yet) but we are lowering the wages.
Villa and Spurs, have both started from financially sound positions where there wage bill hasnt strangled them so they can invest heavily in young talent or foreign talent with cheaper wages, therefore they can progress as normal.
You may be close to being right about Spurs possilby having a wage bill similar to our, but id hazard a guess and say that the 2 season they sepnt on the brink incresed there revenue alot to be able to cover it somewhat and also they have a larger squad which matches there wage bill, something we cant boast about.
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Does he play on the right wing? I get the impression that he'll play on the right and cut inside, just like Jonas cuts in from the left. I remeber watching him a few years back and him tearing apart a teamwith his pace in the CL.
As a man for man replacement, is he better than Milner? If so, then its a winner.
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Are you suggesting the club generates no money?
Im suggesting that the money the clubs generating is being eaten by wages. As we dont have a benefactor type owner, surely the most sensible thing is to reduce the wage levels to a sensible level, freeing up money and adding it to the supposed £20m ~Ashley was affording, as opposed to relying on the £20m Ashley was supposedley affording us and adding to that wage bill.
Financially spekaing, Spurs are really doing the business.
They have a low wage bill, yet they arent compromising the quality of the squad, they're also investing in players who dont lose there value too much, we're in a position where our wage bill is crippling our potential to spend becasue no matter how mch we're spending we're always adding to an already inflated wage bill which further spas resources.
Throwing money at the problem wont solve a thing becasue our starting point is so precarious. A great man once said, ambition first then balance the books later, well when is later?
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I want to know what people believe Ashleys actions should be for the club. Do people think Ashley should be spending his money left right and centre for the Newcastle cause?
And if people dont think he has to spend his own money then where do people think the money should come from?
I dont think people relaise how right Ashley might have it.
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Im happy with Colo, he's a calm reassured defender who's developed a good partnership with Bassong, possilby the best partnership for 15 odd years. Nothing else to be said really.
My only concerns are his strength in the air and the physical side to his game, doesnt need protecting but i do think that Bassong should be marking the big forwards.
Bassong sure is a bit rougher. Maybe even too rough at times, he's looked liable to give away penalties, and has already done so at least once I think?
They're a good pairing though.
The thing is that our recent history shows us that we have strugled as a defensive unit, our stats maybe ok under the Keegan and SBR era but i put that down to us being such an effective attacking unit and thus not having so much defensive pressure rather than being a sound defensive one who can absord a lot of pressure.
Colo and Bassong, in my opinion have given us an extremely strong base to build upon, I dont think there are too many weak attacking sides who can boast a defence as strong as ours.
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Im happy with Colo, he's a calm reassured defender who's developed a good partnership with Bassong, possilby the best partnership for 15 odd years. Nothing else to be said really.
My only concerns are his strength in the air and the physical side to his game, doesnt need protecting but i do think that Bassong should be marking the big forwards.
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sorry to piss on your chips lads but Newcastle United have never in their entire history signed top quality footballers from other top clubs like other top clubs do or appointed top managers from other top clubs do either until the last 16 years.
Hope that helps the expectations that you all have.
Maybe in 20 years time the last decade and a half will be looked back on in the context it deserves.
Hopefully not like.
So whats your point?
back to the days of acting like a 2nd rate club at best.
You've kept these feelings quiet. You should tell us about them sometime.
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Im surpirsed Barca havent showed any interest in Ronaldo, imagine having Messi on the right and Ronaldo on the left.
If that ever happened it'd be game over.
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sorry to piss on your chips lads but Newcastle United have never in their entire history signed top quality footballers from other top clubs like other top clubs do or appointed top managers from other top clubs do either until the last 16 years.
Hope that helps the expectations that you all have.
Maybe in 20 years time the last decade and a half will be looked back on in the context it deserves.
Hopefully not like.
So whats your point?
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I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again.
Will simply point out his plus/minus points;-
Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward.
Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement.
Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that.
Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.
Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically.
Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.
This post pretty much highlights my post perfectly. This massive misconception about Martins and his lack of technical ability not making him a great striker. If Martins scrapes to 15 goals as you say, i can almost guarantee you he'd contribute another 5 goals in assist. At the end of the day, team goals a the only goals that count and if Martins has directly contributed to 20 goals in a season. in automatically puts him into the group of top strikers.
He'll of effectively of contributed exactly the same amount of goals as Michael Owen will have. The only difference is becasue Owen has such a good record and seems technically sound he can get away with it more than some likes Martins who infuritaing game play often overshadows his overall contribution.
He may be one of the worst of the bunch, but he'd definitely be up there.
For me, when it comes to those 90 minutes over the course of a season, Martins is equal to Owen in terms of contibutions to the team.
I could name so many strikers over the years who are technically proficaient but when it comes to contribution to the team have little input.
Forlan, Milosevic, Heskey (at times), Marcus Bent, Sutton etc etc. (maybe some ropey examples at the moment but the list could go on and on) all you could say are technically better than martins, they have the touch, they have the passiing ablity, the hold up play and link up play, but when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net, or making a noticebal contribution to the team, none have been as consitenly as good as Martins has been so far.
That's just wrong on so many levels. If you want to make Martins look good then at least compare him to lesser players.
I assume you mention Forlan because he was a flop at ManU, but his goalscoring record everywhere else he has played is better than 1 in 2. And with 4 seasons in La Liga that's a fantastic record. (and you'll be hard pressed to find a harder working forward)
Everyone says Milosevic flopped at Villa. Maybe, but his goalscoring record in his first 2 seasons was almost identical to Martins here. The reason Savo disappointed so much was because he went to Villa with a record of almost a goal a game.
Heskey might not be able to match Martins for goals (although he's not far behind) but he brings so much more to a team than that. Best partner Owen has ever had.
And finally Sutton. A player that scored 25 league goals in one season for Norwich (slightly better than Martins) before going to Blackburn and playing a major part in them winning the league. Yes he might have been crap for one season at Chelsea but his career record is still better than 1 in 3.
Marcus Bent I'll give you isn't a match for Martins, but if saying he's better than an average journeyman that nobody rates is the best we can do then we have serious problems.
Martins is generally overrated because we are so poor. Understandable. Yes he might be important to us, but don't compare him to some players who have at times been in a different class.
Well hold on, its the premiership that counts surely? Like i said the examples are ropey but i could mentions plenty more, in fact im confident that i could mentions far more flops and technically proficient strikers who dont have scoring and contriution records similiar to Martins. I compared him to players of goosd standards on purpose, the point being that whilst others who are considered technically superior i.e Forlan havent succeeded in the same why that Martins has.
He just has the knack.
Forlan is the only one who doesn't have a goalscoring record comparable with Martins in the Prem, but like I said his goal average in Spain, a league of comparable standards, wipes the floor with Martins. Who knows why it didn't work out for Forlan in England.
Martins isn't a bad player, as I said previously, we just rate him higher because we are so average and he's not alone in that. For all the players we have that get constant stick, there are several distinctly average players that are overrated by some fans.
I dont think we do rate him higher, i actually dont think we consider his actual input into a game which should include assists. The strange thing is that the majority of fans will say Owen is one of the prems top strikers, i agree, but his contribution to the nufc team is almost identical to Martins in term of team goals.
Martins suffers from the illusion that he;s a bad player becasue of his many flaws, its a strnge one becasue at the end of the day he's one of our most effective players. As effective as Owen, the stats mirror this as well.
This 1 in 2 is a massive red herring.
Yeah putting the ball in the back of the net is overrated as well. Let's not change the subject and turn this into another Martins vs Owen debate.
I took issue with you saying this:
Forlan, Milosevic, Heskey (at times), Marcus Bent, Sutton etc etc.....when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net, or making a noticebal contribution to the team, none have been as consitenly as good as Martins has been so far.
Ridiculous statement.
Not really, and to be fair to me I did say they were ropey, are you actually implying that what im saying is fundamentally wrong? Or are you just picking faults with my examples? Im sure i could name you many better examples which make your point moot in the first place. Would you like me to do that?
This isnt a Martins vs Owen debate - all im saying is that when you count assists as goals then effectively Martins stats are equal to Owen, but he doesnt get the recoginition he deserves becasue of the technical flaws in his game.
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would rather just have the money for smith.....it is what we need, after all.
Would normally agree but i dont think we'd get a great deal. For a 3rd of fourth striker he'd be a good buy for effectively a few million.
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Southgate will be on SSN within the next hour, be interesting to hear what he has to say on the Smith Mido swap.
Heard him speak earlier about it and it seems that this deal is on the cards, didnt give too much away but definitely didnt rule it out, i think he might of even confirmed contact.
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I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again.
Will simply point out his plus/minus points;-
Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward.
Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement.
Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that.
Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.
Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically.
Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.
This post pretty much highlights my post perfectly. This massive misconception about Martins and his lack of technical ability not making him a great striker. If Martins scrapes to 15 goals as you say, i can almost guarantee you he'd contribute another 5 goals in assist. At the end of the day, team goals a the only goals that count and if Martins has directly contributed to 20 goals in a season. in automatically puts him into the group of top strikers.
He'll of effectively of contributed exactly the same amount of goals as Michael Owen will have. The only difference is becasue Owen has such a good record and seems technically sound he can get away with it more than some likes Martins who infuritaing game play often overshadows his overall contribution.
He may be one of the worst of the bunch, but he'd definitely be up there.
For me, when it comes to those 90 minutes over the course of a season, Martins is equal to Owen in terms of contibutions to the team.
I could name so many strikers over the years who are technically proficaient but when it comes to contribution to the team have little input.
Forlan, Milosevic, Heskey (at times), Marcus Bent, Sutton etc etc. (maybe some ropey examples at the moment but the list could go on and on) all you could say are technically better than martins, they have the touch, they have the passiing ablity, the hold up play and link up play, but when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net, or making a noticebal contribution to the team, none have been as consitenly as good as Martins has been so far.
That's just wrong on so many levels. If you want to make Martins look good then at least compare him to lesser players.
I assume you mention Forlan because he was a flop at ManU, but his goalscoring record everywhere else he has played is better than 1 in 2. And with 4 seasons in La Liga that's a fantastic record. (and you'll be hard pressed to find a harder working forward)
Everyone says Milosevic flopped at Villa. Maybe, but his goalscoring record in his first 2 seasons was almost identical to Martins here. The reason Savo disappointed so much was because he went to Villa with a record of almost a goal a game.
Heskey might not be able to match Martins for goals (although he's not far behind) but he brings so much more to a team than that. Best partner Owen has ever had.
And finally Sutton. A player that scored 25 league goals in one season for Norwich (slightly better than Martins) before going to Blackburn and playing a major part in them winning the league. Yes he might have been crap for one season at Chelsea but his career record is still better than 1 in 3.
Marcus Bent I'll give you isn't a match for Martins, but if saying he's better than an average journeyman that nobody rates is the best we can do then we have serious problems.
Martins is generally overrated because we are so poor. Understandable. Yes he might be important to us, but don't compare him to some players who have at times been in a different class.
Well hold on, its the premiership that counts surely? Like i said the examples are ropey but i could mentions plenty more, in fact im confident that i could mentions far more flops and technically proficient strikers who dont have scoring and contriution records similiar to Martins. I compared him to players of goosd standards on purpose, the point being that whilst others who are considered technically superior i.e Forlan havent succeeded in the same why that Martins has.
He just has the knack.
Forlan is the only one who doesn't have a goalscoring record comparable with Martins in the Prem, but like I said his goal average in Spain, a league of comparable standards, wipes the floor with Martins. Who knows why it didn't work out for Forlan in England.
Martins isn't a bad player, as I said previously, we just rate him higher because we are so average and he's not alone in that. For all the players we have that get constant stick, there are several distinctly average players that are overrated by some fans.
I dont think we do rate him higher, i actually dont think we consider his actual input into a game which should include assists. The strange thing is that the majority of fans will say Owen is one of the prems top strikers, i agree, but his contribution to the nufc team is almost identical to Martins in term of team goals.
Martins suffers from the illusion that he;s a bad player becasue of his many flaws, its a strnge one becasue at the end of the day he's one of our most effective players. As effective as Owen, the stats mirror this as well.
This 1 in 2 is a massive red herring.
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Mido is an upgrade on Smith.
So for those reasons alone Id be ok with it. Not inspiring stuff but a definite upgrade.
He wouldn't cost a bomb like so we'd get plenty of bang for our buck, but his hamstring and groin can go off at any time so this transfer could easily blow up in our face.
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Cant beleive how badly City are spending, or looking to spend. Id be gutted if i was a man city fan, come the summer all the players that Hughes signs are gonna get replaced anyway.
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Mido is an upgrade on Smith.
So for those reasons alone Id be ok with it. Not inspiring stuff but a definite upgrade.
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Would be good in a 433.
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That 11m was Boumsong, Babayaro, and Amdy Faye by the way.
Not a tall order, money or quality wise.
Precisely.
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Seb's The Find Of The Season - JK
By Craig Hope
JOE Kinnear believes that in-form defender Sebastien Bassong has been the "find of the season" in the Barclays Premier League.
The Paris-born ace had just turned 22 when he appeared in a trial match for United during a pre-season friendly at Doncaster Rovers in July.
And, having done enough to win a permanent switch to St.James' Park, the former FC Metz starlet has gone on to win a regular starting place at the heart of the black-and-white backline.
http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1512448,00.html
What are the weaknesses to this lads game? I havent seen anything drasticaly poor yet.
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I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again.
Will simply point out his plus/minus points;-
Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward.
Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement.
Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that.
Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.
Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically.
Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.
This post pretty much highlights my post perfectly. This massive misconception about Martins and his lack of technical ability not making him a great striker. If Martins scrapes to 15 goals as you say, i can almost guarantee you he'd contribute another 5 goals in assist. At the end of the day, team goals a the only goals that count and if Martins has directly contributed to 20 goals in a season. in automatically puts him into the group of top strikers.
He'll of effectively of contributed exactly the same amount of goals as Michael Owen will have. The only difference is becasue Owen has such a good record and seems technically sound he can get away with it more than some likes Martins who infuritaing game play often overshadows his overall contribution.
He may be one of the worst of the bunch, but he'd definitely be up there.
For me, when it comes to those 90 minutes over the course of a season, Martins is equal to Owen in terms of contibutions to the team.
I could name so many strikers over the years who are technically proficaient but when it comes to contribution to the team have little input.
Forlan, Milosevic, Heskey (at times), Marcus Bent, Sutton etc etc. (maybe some ropey examples at the moment but the list could go on and on) all you could say are technically better than martins, they have the touch, they have the passiing ablity, the hold up play and link up play, but when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net, or making a noticebal contribution to the team, none have been as consitenly as good as Martins has been so far.
That's just wrong on so many levels. If you want to make Martins look good then at least compare him to lesser players.
I assume you mention Forlan because he was a flop at ManU, but his goalscoring record everywhere else he has played is better than 1 in 2. And with 4 seasons in La Liga that's a fantastic record. (and you'll be hard pressed to find a harder working forward)
Everyone says Milosevic flopped at Villa. Maybe, but his goalscoring record in his first 2 seasons was almost identical to Martins here. The reason Savo disappointed so much was because he went to Villa with a record of almost a goal a game.
Heskey might not be able to match Martins for goals (although he's not far behind) but he brings so much more to a team than that. Best partner Owen has ever had.
And finally Sutton. A player that scored 25 league goals in one season for Norwich (slightly better than Martins) before going to Blackburn and playing a major part in them winning the league. Yes he might have been crap for one season at Chelsea but his career record is still better than 1 in 3.
Marcus Bent I'll give you isn't a match for Martins, but if saying he's better than an average journeyman that nobody rates is the best we can do then we have serious problems.
Martins is generally overrated because we are so poor. Understandable. Yes he might be important to us, but don't compare him to some players who have at times been in a different class.
Well hold on, its the premiership that counts surely? Like i said the examples are ropey but i could mentions plenty more, in fact im confident that i could mentions far more flops and technically proficient strikers who dont have scoring and contriution records similiar to Martins. I compared him to players of goosd standards on purpose, the point being that whilst others who are considered technically superior i.e Forlan havent succeeded in the same why that Martins has.
He just has the knack.
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I'll reserve my judgemnt for sept 2nd if im honest. Its the only window that the club has no excuses to suceed.
I'm sure you'll find some, you were saying that last year.
Why do you think I'd want to find excuses? I must of imagined the whole Keegan debacle then.
Silly me.
You might have noticed he's gone now and a much more pliable man is in place. Surely this month we'll be able to sign at least some of all these great players that the system identified which Keegan blocked because he'd never heard of them?
If they're availalbe and a reasonalbe price then i dont see why not. Like i said, £11m "to beat".
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You may put that down to the level of investment and backing, ill put it down to the good will towards Souness's departure, this views is backed upby the absymal showing the follwing year. Honey moon period.
This is a pretty shit retort. Will try better when i can be arsed.