fredbob
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Posts posted by fredbob
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I see your point fredbob, but I think it's easier to find another striker who'd score 10 and make 15, than what it is to find a striker who gets 25.
I dont see why thats a bad thing, im essentailly saying that effectively they're the same stats.
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I hate the Owen vs Martins debate.
To be honest - im not trying to start this debate (although its a shame that i have to start any topic on an internet forum with any trepidation) all im doing is actually trying to highlight the value of stats.
When you look at the stats earlier in this thread on soem of the players, i think a lot of people dont take assists into as much consideration and therefore consider someone like Derikdok (12 in 49) as a 1 in 4 striker, which doesnt look impressive, but when you take stats into account he's effectivey a better than a 1 in 2 striker (33 team goals in 49).
Its a just a different way of looking things and actually highlights the the fact that its a bit of red herring and cliche when we harp on about a 1 in 2 striekr. I think we attach more importance than is actually required to that particular stat.
It might actually put this OWen thing into a bit of perspective and give some people a differnt angle on the whole situaiton.
(Note this has no agenda behind it whatsoever and is a genuine point)
Oh I'm not saying it's not a good debate to have, man. It just always descends into how poor Oba's touch/movement is, and how slow Owen is etc etc etc etc. People focus on the negatives instead of the qualities both of them bring to our team.
FWIW I'm really split on whether an out-and-out striker like Owen still has as much worth in the modern game. Sometimes I look at the top teams and our games when we need something a bit different and assume not, but then when he wins us a game after doing fuck all for 89 other minutes I change my mind.
Agreed, is a tricky subject to behonest, its kind of a "Eureka moment" for me, ive been having the same thoughts myself and thought about his importance to the team with respect to his contract situation and how important his goals are, ive never actually considered the imporantce of assists when assesing how good a striker is, for me, its equal to goals scored.
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Create chances for who though?
Long time since we could rely on others for goals.
Why does it matter? The stats will show a goal has been scored from his direct input.
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I hate the Owen vs Martins debate.
To be honest - im not trying to start this debate (although its a shame that i have to start any topic on an internet forum with any trepidation) all im doing is actually trying to highlight the value of stats.
When you look at the stats earlier in this thread on soem of the players, i think a lot of people dont take assists into as much consideration and therefore consider someone like Derikdok (12 in 49) as a 1 in 4 striker, which doesnt look impressive, but when you take stats into account he's effectivey a better than a 1 in 2 striker (33 team goals in 49).
Its a just a different way of looking things and actually highlights the the fact that its a bit of red herring and cliche when we harp on about a 1 in 2 striekr. I think we attach more importance than is actually required to that particular stat.
It might actually put this OWen thing into a bit of perspective and give some people a differnt angle on the whole situaiton.
(Note this has no agenda behind it whatsoever and is a genuine point)
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See i want to know if we are possibly over thinking this whole Owen situation, I think possilby we are either overrating Martins or underrating Owen becasue to me (without looking) there stats are essentially identical.
It comes down o this old argument of Owens input for the side; his saving grace is that he is a 1 in 2 strker but would i be worng to say that Martins is essentially a 1 in 2 striker if we add his assist stats to his goals.
Genereally speaking, when it comes to a team result, is there any difference between a striker who scores 25 out of 50 games and a striker who scores 10 but creates 15 in the same number of games?
Just a different spin on things.
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Hmm, strange. It's set up by the same lads who run
http://www.teamnewsforlikeeverygameintheworld.com
that one too.
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I clicked.
I didnt read the bitterness in that message and clicked as well. -
Players we've been linked with:
Deriydok
Saviola
Gomez
Gomis
Fabiano
Fred(?)
Zaki
Baptista
Diane
Id take any of them, I'd also consider Podolski and Heskey. If Eto'o was considering a move to Spurs, i cant see why he wouldnt consider Nufc.
Deluded, moi?
Last 4 Years:
Derdiyok: 49 Matches (Axpo Super League) - 12 Goals, 11 Assists
Saviola: 62 Matches (Liga BBVA) - 18 Goals, 1 Assist
Gomez: 96 Matches (1. Bundesliga) - 46 Goals, 17 Assists
Gomis: 117 Matches (Ligue 1) - 33 Goals, 11 Assists
Fabiano: 88 Matches (Liga BBVA) - 41 Goals, 2 Assists
Fred: 81 Matches (Ligue 1) - 34 Goals, 8 Assists
Zaki: 14 Matches (Premier League) - 8 Goals, 1 Assist
Baptista: 94 Matches (Liga BBVA, Premier League, Serie A) - 16 Goals, 6 Assists
Diane: Who?
Where do you find stats for players?
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Players we've been linked with:
Deriydok
Saviola
Gomez
Gomis
Fabiano
Fred(?)
Zaki
Baptista
Diane
Id take any of them, I'd also consider Podolski and Heskey. If Eto'o was considering a move to Spurs, i cant see why he wouldnt consider Nufc.
Deluded, moi?
Last 4 Years:
Derdiyok: 49 Matches (Axpo Super League) - 12 Goals, 11 Assists
Saviola: 62 Matches (Liga BBVA) - 18 Goals, 1 Assist
Gomez: 96 Matches (1. Bundesliga) - 46 Goals, 17 Assists
Gomis: 117 Matches (Ligue 1) - 33 Goals, 11 Assists
Fabiano: 88 Matches (Liga BBVA) - 41 Goals, 2 Assists
Fred: 81 Matches (Ligue 1) - 34 Goals, 8 Assists
Zaki: 14 Matches (Premier League) - 8 Goals, 1 Assist
Baptista: 94 Matches (Liga BBVA, Premier League, Serie A) - 16 Goals, 6 Assists
Diane: Who?
All of them except Baptista, Gomez and Fabiano seem obtainable and/or 'desirable' to me. Diane is a lad who plays/ed for PSG i think, were linked with him during the same time as we were linked to Gomis, he mentioned us in some quotes.
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Sakho is an interesting link, wouldnt want to see our back 4 broken up though and id want to see him play in his best position which would mean Collo or Bassong moving out the team. Still though, if he's gonna imporve the team then fuck it, would still ike to see more links with midfielders though.
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Players we've been linked with:
Deriydok
Saviola
Gomez
Gomis
Fabiano
Fred(?)
Zaki
Baptista
Diane
Id take any of them, I'd also consider Podolski and Heskey. If Eto'o was considering a move to Spurs, i cant see why he wouldnt consider Nufc.
Deluded, moi?
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To be honest i wont shed i tear if he eventually leaves, the mans thorough class and is an exceptional player but I'd look forward to seeing what the scouting team could provide for us.
Silver lining and all that, at 29 are we going to continue to see the best from him throughout the remainder of his contract when the same resources could go on another younger player...to me its a win win situation.
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What a great signing, more vindication for the scouting sytems, superb find by Wise and Vetere, long may it continue.
I know you're properly looking for a bite on that one. So I won't post what you wanted people like myself to post.
Was it the wink that gave it away?!This arguments been done to death. I'm not a smug person by nature, but chirst I'm feeling vindicated in my defence of the system.
Actually, I'll respond to this one. Scouts going out and recommending a player, then having him over for a trial and the manager deciding that he wants to keep him isn't a new thing, or it wasn't invented by Mike Ashley's wonderful system, despite what people would have you believe.
So what if getting a player on trial isnt a viable option? To be fair, Ashley is the one who brought it to the club, something we've been begging for for many years, all I'm saying, so that the thread doesnt get detracted too much is that the sytem worked here. Theres no argument here. We should let them get on with it, quite frankly i couldnt give a fuck if he club keeps making a profit every window as long as we carry on builiiding a squad like we;re doing at the moment. I cant remeber the last time we signed a youngish player with no major repuatition who have turned out to be as good as Bassong, Guthrie or Jonas, these are the players that Arsenal have been finding for years, how is that not a fantastic thing for the club?
Did I ever say it wasn't a good thing for the club?
It was a rhetorical question.
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What a great signing, more vindication for the scouting sytems, superb find by Wise and Vetere, long may it continue.
I know you're properly looking for a bite on that one. So I won't post what you wanted people like myself to post.
Was it the wink that gave it away?!This arguments been done to death. I'm not a smug person by nature, but chirst I'm feeling vindicated in my defence of the system.
Actually, I'll respond to this one. Scouts going out and recommending a player, then having him over for a trial and the manager deciding that he wants to keep him isn't a new thing, or it wasn't invented by Mike Ashley's wonderful system, despite what people would have you believe.
So what if getting a player on trial isnt a viable option? To be fair, Ashley is the one who brought it to the club, something we've been begging for for many years, all I'm saying, so that the thread doesnt get detracted too much is that the sytem worked here. Theres no argument here. We should let them get on with it, quite frankly i couldnt give a fuck if he club keeps making a profit every window as long as we carry on builiiding a squad like we;re doing at the moment. I cant remeber the last time we signed a youngish player with no major repuatition who have turned out to be as good as Bassong, Guthrie or Jonas, these are the players that Arsenal have been finding for years, how is that not a fantastic thing for the club?
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care to expand ?
Not really as I don't have anything else to say other than he hasn't spoken to Ashley for quite a while and certainly not in the recent past.
I heard those two werent on good terms when he left...
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According to a mate Wise was there too.
I stopped reading that after you said you had a mate tbh.
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Anyone notice how Zog drifted "in the hole" a few times? Wonder if it was a Kinnear instruction. Would like to see Jonas and Zog swap positions a little more.
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What a great signing, more vindication for the scouting sytems, superb find by Wise and Vetere, long may it continue.
I know you're properly looking for a bite on that one. So I won't post what you wanted people like myself to post.
Was it the wink that gave it away?!This arguments been done to death. I'm not a smug person by nature, but chirst I'm feeling vindicated in my defence of the system.
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Was it that obvious?
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Elano - jump all over him if available
I dont see where a dramatic change of form is ever gonna come from him. He's been plodding along since about decemeber last year.
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Their records may be similar on paper but I had far more confidence in Keegan taking us to bigger and better things than I have in Kinnear.
Simple as that really.
Shame he bottled it then.
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Would have him here just to shut up all to tossers complaining about the amount of money spent.
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Interesting stuff, to be honest, i dont think it was anything to do with the club. Id imagine they'd be more low key if it was anything of real issue.
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So we wait 5 years for a manager who can make us hard to beat, who the players really want to play for, who can help turn St James into a fortress again and who brings back winnning football. Then when we get him we suggest getting rid of him at the end of the season because he isn't a big enough name for a team like Newcastle United? Get fucked!!!
He's earnt a long-term contract already as far as i'm concerned. Get him signed up - if it ain't broke don't try to fix it.
The mans done really really well for the club but i still wouldnt want him for any longer than the end of the season. Wouldnt mind giving hima role at the club, althoughi doubt he'd take it (and it'd purely be for sentimental reasons). Really think if Ashley wants to stay than he needs to make another ambitious appointment at the end of the season and give the fans more hope of sustained success for the future.
Lets just enjoy the result - i have my reasons, but at the moment they pale in significance to the result today!
Owen's replacement
in Football
Posted
Id love that but i actully think they're the hardest type of players to sign, they;re arguably the most talent and gifted players on the pitch because they're game is so natural and cerebral.
I actually think the Martins Owen combination was working ok, i was surpirsed at how different they games actually are and how little they actually take the same positions. The balance still isnt right becasue with them we are missing 2 things, aerial ability and a decent hold up and link up play.
The bit in bold i agree with massively.