fredbob

Simple as that then. Note to FredBob - they didn't go through due diligence, put in offers and then withdraw them because of any fan action. You bamp. Good news - the club should really be releasing astatement now saying so.

The only thinging stopping the sale isn't the fans - its the price combined with the economic climate. The very idea that a potential investor even knows NUSC exists is laughable. You dont think a club thats being boycotted where the fans no nothing may put off potential investors? Especially when the owner may feel he's done little wrong? Yeh you're right the idea is laughable, Im sure the potential buyers are completely unaware of any boycott at the club. Best keep that quiet.

Fans like me? What actions have I taken exactly? Oh yes of course, I've paid my season ticket money up for 3 full seasons, still continue to go to the games, still continue to go to away games, still continue to support the club regardless of anything. Thank f*** we don't have more fans like me eh? Btw I was the first person on this board to actually say who they wanted in as Keegan's replacement and wanted things to move on as quickly as possible. What about Skeljbred and Gomis, that's speculation we know nothing of. All we know is that we had Zayatte on trial, we don't know why we never signed him permanently, maybe Keegan didn't rate him, maybe the board acted hesitantly on signing him up. Look mate, this isnt a dig at you personally, but for me your one of many people who have acted without real cause or evidence. Ill generalise you with all the knuckle draggers out there who have physically acted out upon there beliefs becasue you all share the common feature of acting without evidence (be it boycotting matches or taking barbs at Ashleys or suporting the actions of others against Ashley). I realise im setting myself up for a fall should it turn out that Ashley is wrong in all this bu that is not why i am arguing, it is becasue i cant stand that idea that people have decided upon someones future and they dont even know for sure if he's done wrongin the first place. I hate that our club refuses to escape from contreversy and the off field problems that have dogged this club, and i hate that the very people who complain about our off field problms ironically are now the ones who are causing it. (again ill stress this point, WITH NO IDEA OF WHAT WENT ON). Precisely you're right about the players ive mentioned, "maybe Keegan didnt rate him", you said it yourself, you;ve contradicted what alot of people are saying as fact, Keegan DID have a say he wasnt just a figurehead, he DID have a say on things. It was only on the last day that the club felt they had to act. thats what im getting at, that its not as clear as people want to make out.

How exactly is anyone "holding the club at ransom" (other than Ashley himself that is) and in what way is Ashley not being "allowed to get on with things"? Last time I checked the world was still turning, a manager was managing, the players were playing, the supporters were supporting the team. No-one other than Ashley is stopping anything or has the power to do anything about the position the club is in. If we're going to talk about quitters... Arguing contract semantics and debating about who was right or wrong is completely futile anyway. It's most likely everything will be settled out of court with a non-disclosure clause. Even if it did go to court, there'd be 2 sides to the story. People who trust Keegan will believe what he says, and those who have a misguided faith in Ashley will believe what the club comes out with. No-one's opinion is going to be changed by anything said from this point on unless one party comes out and says they were fully to blame, which isn't going to happen. The squad's weak, we have a manager on a month to month contract, we're in the relegation zone, and no-one wants to buy the club at Ashley's price. Have a guess which of Keegan or Ashley can do anything about that. Alright mate, if you want to look past the issues that are dogging the club and paint a rosy picture for your own convieniences thats upto you. We have an INTERIM manager for a reason. How soon we forget about boycotting, how small minded are we that we cant see that our actions HAVE lead us to the situation we're in now? Do you know if the NUSC has put off any potential buyers? The fans havent thought this through at all, we've seen the aftermath of an instant and acting upon it without knowing everything. And becasue we've gone over that line we're finding it hard to progress. If the club get relegated, without knowing what actually went on, ill blame a third of it on Ashley, a third of it on Keegan and a third on it onfans like you and supporters of NUSC who have strangled the club of progress by refusing to acknowledge the bigger picture persist with militia politics. (slight exaggeration - but i feel really strngly about this). I imaigine you were one of those 20k fans who are true fans of the club, how can you sit and watch fans who probably discovered the club in 92 strangle the club and turn there back on the club they claim to love when they need us the most. Indefensible in my opinion, especially when you and they havent a f***ing club whats gone on. I cant stress the importance of that point. Bit in bold higlights the futility of any argument with people like yourself.

Great post.

Great post.

can't see how any of them can be wrong. had keegan not felt his situation to be untenable he'd still be here, so point one is obviously true Big assumption that Keegan is innocent in all this. he said the club didnt owe a penny to anyone, then said we still had debts. he said keegan was in charge, then a club statement said otherwise. so it looks like ashley, or at least the board on his behalf, have lied to us. All i know is that £100m has been poured into the club, that'll do for me, however i cant answer this straight so count that one on your chalk board although when Mort said he paid this did he not say something specifically about 3rd parties like banks and interest? the other debt he mentioned may of been transfer debt which he may of considered normal. Maybe not? and if theyve lied, then that is a flaw in communication, which shows point three to be true. and regardless, communication is about perception, if a large portion of fans feel they havent been communicated with properly, then they havent. Most people were happy upto the 1st of Sept, what does that say to you? It saysto me that they want to stick there noses in now that it doesnt suit them, remeber they releasedthat ridiculous statment and no one beleived it or accepted it so whats the point, they obviously felt that they were getting the raw end of the stick and felt they had to act. Futile. the failure to back the manager to sufficient levels is undeniable, it's not even a point of debate. Do we even know why? The fact that the club wasnt rowing in the same direction should give you a clue as to why much money wasnt spent. I choose to believe that money wasnt spent becasue Wise didnt want to undermine Keegan but when it became too close to the end he felt he had to act and undermined Keegan on the VERY last day. It just doesnt make sense that the club will start with a £16m bid for Modric then choose not to back him at all. Then to undermine him only on the last day. Fredbob, pick out each of those points as to what johnny has responded to mine with and give me your own opinion on each and every one of those. I dont know what to say tooj, this really isnt a hard point, i cant make this clearer than i already have, both parties have contradicted themselves on many occassions yet only one has a pressure group and dyslexic posters aimed in his direction. I still havent heard a reason why these actions are justified. I dont understand how anyone has got anywhere near enough evidence in order to act upon the circumstances. The mere fact that you cant tell me if this was in fact all Keegans fault becasue you dont know whats going on should give you a clue about the situation. Imagine convicting someone upon the same level of evidence that we see in this stuation. The thing is, is that people wont ask themselves why Wise thought it on only on the last day of the season that he needed to undermine Keegan. What about Skeljbred, what about Gomis, what about Zayatte, i imagine there were many more? Surely he could of and would of undermined him from the start if Keegan had no say whatsoever? The point is though, that even though i have these doubts, i like many dont have anti keegan pressure groups or take barbs at Keegan ever minute becqasue most realise that by taking these action we're holding the club at ransom, imagine if Ashley was allowed to get on with things, im not sure we;d be in the situation we are in now, who fault is that, well in my eyes, its fans like you and NUSC who still to this day have no means to your actions.

No we also have various members of the board room contradicting themselves/each other on what Keegan's position was at the club Which means they either lied about his position in the first place or moved the goal posts. Poor Keegan, good job he didnt lie as well....oh wait. Still that is substantial, you are right Ashley should leave becasue of that. I want to know who was responsible, and i want them to fuck off.

................................. but not necessarily correct. Which is the issue I'm most interested in.

Making it so the manager felt his position was untenable, lying to the fans, piss poor communication ever since Mort left, failure to back his manager's to sufficient levels in transfer windows. There's some for you. Mate, your absolutely clueless. I dont know why you even bother. Clueless aye of course I am. I'm glad you found my post that clueless that you can't even respond to it without resorting to petty insults. johnnypd has addressed my points, if you disagree with them then state why. It wasnt an insult, it was a fact, you genuinely dont know enough about what happened at the club to form a rational argument. People have decided upon an action without even knowing the full craic. Its embarressing. For all you know, Keegan could be 100% responsible for what transpired, good chance of it being the case, Keegan could be responsible for our lack of acivity this window, its all a possilbity but all i hear is faint patter about his accountability becasue "he's a foo-kin ledge, lyke". Like i say, people want Ashley's head, and they dont know why. Judge, Jury and Executioner yet you have no evidence - all you have is the fact that "serial quitter" Kevin Keegan has quit again and that must therefore mean that the board have royally fucked up. I dont know if they have, or havent but being a logical person ill sit back and find out what happned before saying someon is wrong and therefore needs to go.

Making it so the manager felt his position was untenable, lying to the fans, piss poor communication ever since Mort left, failure to back his manager's to sufficient levels in transfer windows. There's some for you. Mate, your absolutely clueless. I dont know why you even bother.

"We want Ashley's head but we dont know why".

If we don't, will you? Or will it be all Kinnear & NUSC's fault? Good question. What gave you the inspiration? I dunno to be honest - there are so many external factors to consider, its hard for me to write someone off as quickly as the majority so i couldnt say knowing that the owner wants to sell the club. If i knew that he wanted to keep the club then didnt spend, i'll be right there with the rest of you waving that little "cockney mafia out" flag, but its hard to expect an owner to spend good money on an asset he's looking to sell after fans like yourself dont acknowledge any difficulties he's had whilst trying to run the club and give him 1 year to implement his long term fan. Still he has no excuse, he should of spent more this summer, i mean if his manager wasnt authorising transfers (Skejlbred, Zayatte, Gomis, etc...) then he should of got his men to sign some players.....oh wait....

So if we spend a decent amount this Jan then will people start to change there minds about Ashley?

I say its the endless running with his head down until he runs into a defender loses posession and the whole team gets caught on the counter. Or maybe the going to sleep at leftback costing goals regardless of his natural position. He doesn`t score many and for some reason like the rest of the team can`t take a corner or cross spectaculary. If we get good money I won`t mind at all. But again, that can be worked on and should of been worked on (Like it was with Ronaldo). I dont think he's had decent run where he's been in the position to score many goals. He's only had one full (ish) season to judge him from and that was in 2006, where he scored 5 goals, for a 20 year old winger in his fisrt season that isnt bad. The season after, he finds himself on the bench - behind Duff. I still havent heard anything fundamentally wrong with his game that will forever be a flaw to him, like a lack of pace (like Milner) or a severe lack of footballing intelligence (like Martins). the fundamental flaw in his game is that he isn't as good as some seem to think. for all you talk about a fundamental flaw you must also think he doesn't have any particularly outstanding qualities either. theres as much chance making a great player out of him through "working on things" as there is with milner. the comparisson with ronaldo is embarasssing. So you cant name one? I dont think he's amazing, i dont think he's anywhere near the same ability as Ronaldo but the comparison is valid. I think he has very good abilty on the ball and has a quality which not many players have and thats the ability to go past players with relative ease, couple that with better decision making and you have a very very good player. Do you think that ronaldo would be the player he is if he experinced the same path as Zog? The example with Milner is invalid on one basis and that is that Milner didnt have the pace to succeed in his position, he was also a terrible crosser which menat his lack of pace was magnified. John robertson is supposed to be a great crossing coahc at Villa, it'll be interesting to see if he can turn Milner into a better player and make up for his lack of pace. probably as a player with that talent would always have ended up at a top club. i've said often enough in this thread that he has no nouse,no footballing brain and i don't think that can be "worked on". he may improve but never enough for him to be anywhere near the player some think he is. With such a subjective question i suppose i cant tell you you're wrong to believe that, but i think you're wrong. Like i say, you think knowing when to pass and when to dribble is unteachable, i say players like Adebayor, Ronaldo, Henry, Terry, J.Cole, Fabregas have all learnt when to pass the ball etc. Henry is a perfect example of a player who had brilliant raw talent but was no way the player he was before he came to Arsenal and learnt to make better dcecisions, despite having ooodles of experience under his belt. Theres a reason why Arsenal are reportedly sniffing around Martins and Zog... henry didn't suit italian football,same as bergkamp. did you see henry for monaco in the uefa cup up here ? even then you could see how good he could be in a way that i've never saw n'zogbia. n'zogbia is good,can be better,but don't mention him in the same bracket as ronaldo or henry even for sake of example. So when he first played under Souness you never thought he'd be anything special? You always thought he'd be an ordinary player? You'll be a brave man to admit that- there are thousands of threads on Zog... when i first saw him play i thought he could be good,better than he's turned out but never an henry or ronaldo. i thought he could have reached solano at his peak standard. Is that the basis of your argument? That you think people think he could be as good as Henry and Ronaldo?? Not in a million years - that facts been reiterated by a lot of people but i do think that he has the ability to be a very very good player, one of the better players in the premiership.

I say its the endless running with his head down until he runs into a defender loses posession and the whole team gets caught on the counter. Or maybe the going to sleep at leftback costing goals regardless of his natural position. He doesn`t score many and for some reason like the rest of the team can`t take a corner or cross spectaculary. If we get good money I won`t mind at all. But again, that can be worked on and should of been worked on (Like it was with Ronaldo). I dont think he's had decent run where he's been in the position to score many goals. He's only had one full (ish) season to judge him from and that was in 2006, where he scored 5 goals, for a 20 year old winger in his fisrt season that isnt bad. The season after, he finds himself on the bench - behind Duff. I still havent heard anything fundamentally wrong with his game that will forever be a flaw to him, like a lack of pace (like Milner) or a severe lack of footballing intelligence (like Martins). the fundamental flaw in his game is that he isn't as good as some seem to think. for all you talk about a fundamental flaw you must also think he doesn't have any particularly outstanding qualities either. theres as much chance making a great player out of him through "working on things" as there is with milner. the comparisson with ronaldo is embarasssing. So you cant name one? I dont think he's amazing, i dont think he's anywhere near the same ability as Ronaldo but the comparison is valid. I think he has very good abilty on the ball and has a quality which not many players have and thats the ability to go past players with relative ease, couple that with better decision making and you have a very very good player. Do you think that ronaldo would be the player he is if he experinced the same path as Zog? The example with Milner is invalid on one basis and that is that Milner didnt have the pace to succeed in his position, he was also a terrible crosser which menat his lack of pace was magnified. John robertson is supposed to be a great crossing coahc at Villa, it'll be interesting to see if he can turn Milner into a better player and make up for his lack of pace. probably as a player with that talent would always have ended up at a top club. i've said often enough in this thread that he has no nouse,no footballing brain and i don't think that can be "worked on". he may improve but never enough for him to be anywhere near the player some think he is. With such a subjective question i suppose i cant tell you you're wrong to believe that, but i think you're wrong. Like i say, you think knowing when to pass and when to dribble is unteachable, i say players like Adebayor, Ronaldo, Henry, Terry, J.Cole, Fabregas have all learnt when to pass the ball etc. Henry is a perfect example of a player who had brilliant raw talent but was no way the player he was before he came to Arsenal and learnt to make better dcecisions, despite having ooodles of experience under his belt. Theres a reason why Arsenal are reportedly sniffing around Martins and Zog... henry didn't suit italian football,same as bergkamp. did you see henry for monaco in the uefa cup up here ? even then you could see how good he could be in a way that i've never saw n'zogbia. n'zogbia is good,can be better,but don't mention him in the same bracket as ronaldo or henry even for sake of example. So when he first played under Souness you never thought he'd be anything special? You always thought he'd be an ordinary player? You'll be a brave man to admit that- there are thousands of threads on Zog...

I say its the endless running with his head down until he runs into a defender loses posession and the whole team gets caught on the counter. Or maybe the going to sleep at leftback costing goals regardless of his natural position. He doesn`t score many and for some reason like the rest of the team can`t take a corner or cross spectaculary. If we get good money I won`t mind at all. But again, that can be worked on and should of been worked on (Like it was with Ronaldo). I dont think he's had decent run where he's been in the position to score many goals. He's only had one full (ish) season to judge him from and that was in 2006, where he scored 5 goals, for a 20 year old winger in his fisrt season that isnt bad. The season after, he finds himself on the bench - behind Duff. I still havent heard anything fundamentally wrong with his game that will forever be a flaw to him, like a lack of pace (like Milner) or a severe lack of footballing intelligence (like Martins). the fundamental flaw in his game is that he isn't as good as some seem to think. for all you talk about a fundamental flaw you must also think he doesn't have any particularly outstanding qualities either. theres as much chance making a great player out of him through "working on things" as there is with milner. the comparisson with ronaldo is embarasssing. So you cant name one? I dont think he's amazing, i dont think he's anywhere near the same ability as Ronaldo but the comparison is valid. I think he has very good abilty on the ball and has a quality which not many players have and thats the ability to go past players with relative ease, couple that with better decision making and you have a very very good player. Do you think that ronaldo would be the player he is if he experinced the same path as Zog? The example with Milner is invalid on one basis and that is that Milner didnt have the pace to succeed in his position, he was also a terrible crosser which menat his lack of pace was magnified. John robertson is supposed to be a great crossing coahc at Villa, it'll be interesting to see if he can turn Milner into a better player and make up for his lack of pace. probably as a player with that talent would always have ended up at a top club. i've said often enough in this thread that he has no nouse,no footballing brain and i don't think that can be "worked on". he may improve but never enough for him to be anywhere near the player some think he is. With such a subjective question i suppose i cant tell you you're wrong to believe that, but i think you're wrong. Like i say, you think knowing when to pass and when to dribble is unteachable, i say players like Adebayor, Ronaldo, Henry, Terry, J.Cole, Fabregas have all learnt when to pass the ball etc. Henry is a perfect example of a player who had brilliant raw talent but was no way the player he was before he came to Arsenal and learnt to make better dcecisions, despite having ooodles of experience under his belt. Theres a reason why Arsenal are reportedly sniffing around Martins and Zog...

I say its the endless running with his head down until he runs into a defender loses posession and the whole team gets caught on the counter. Or maybe the going to sleep at leftback costing goals regardless of his natural position. He doesn`t score many and for some reason like the rest of the team can`t take a corner or cross spectaculary. If we get good money I won`t mind at all. But again, that can be worked on and should of been worked on (Like it was with Ronaldo). I dont think he's had decent run where he's been in the position to score many goals. He's only had one full (ish) season to judge him from and that was in 2006, where he scored 5 goals, for a 20 year old winger in his fisrt season that isnt bad. The season after, he finds himself on the bench - behind Duff. I still havent heard anything fundamentally wrong with his game that will forever be a flaw to him, like a lack of pace (like Milner) or a severe lack of footballing intelligence (like Martins). the fundamental flaw in his game is that he isn't as good as some seem to think. for all you talk about a fundamental flaw you must also think he doesn't have any particularly outstanding qualities either. theres as much chance making a great player out of him through "working on things" as there is with milner. the comparisson with ronaldo is embarasssing. So you cant name one? I dont think he's amazing, i dont think he's anywhere near the same ability as Ronaldo but the comparison is valid. I think he has very good abilty on the ball and has a quality which not many players have and thats the ability to go past players with relative ease, couple that with better decision making and you have a very very good player. Do you think that ronaldo would be the player he is if he experinced the same path as Zog? The example with Milner is invalid on one basis and that is that Milner didnt have the pace to succeed in his position, he was also a terrible crosser which menat his lack of pace was magnified. John robertson is supposed to be a great crossing coahc at Villa, it'll be interesting to see if he can turn Milner into a better player and make up for his lack of pace.

I say its the endless running with his head down until he runs into a defender loses posession and the whole team gets caught on the counter. Or maybe the going to sleep at leftback costing goals regardless of his natural position. He doesn`t score many and for some reason like the rest of the team can`t take a corner or cross spectaculary. If we get good money I won`t mind at all. But again, that can be worked on and should of been worked on (Like it was with Ronaldo). I dont think he's had decent run where he's been in the position to score many goals. He's only had one full (ish) season to judge him from and that was in 2006, where he scored 5 goals, for a 20 year old winger in his fisrt season that isnt bad. The season after, he finds himself on the bench - behind Duff. I still havent heard anything fundamentally wrong with his game that will forever be a flaw to him, like a lack of pace (like Milner) or a severe lack of footballing intelligence (like Martins).

I cant think of many players in the Prem who have the albilty to go past a player like Zog does. The ones that definitely can are genreally regarded to be good players. Can anyone think of a playerwho can go past a man and is still regarded as "not good"? People would say Lennon but i'd argue contrare to that.

Mate, you are right that he barely overlaps to help the attack but I think this is more because of what he has been told as opposed to some 'internal' factors you make out. I remember quite distinctively that in his first few games for us, he did a fair share of overlapping runs even taking on defenders to get a shot in. Since then though he has mainly just tried to cross the ball from very deep position (read halfway line). A new attack minded manager can get him to play like he used to play again, he is still young and will learn and develop. Remember Babayaro anyone? Ywh will agree with that, definitely been instrructed to stay in his own half recently but i dont think he's got forward well at all in his career here. Even last year under Keegans revival i dont think he got forward enough. He always hugs the sideline when he goes forward and that makes his so easy to mark. No threat whatseover going forward. Enrique should really model himself on Beye.

Thank you for pointing that out. I'm well and truely sick of people suggesting Jonas in the centre. For the record i'd be looking to play him on the left and buying a right winger. Valencia would be nice. I dont like having inbalanced wing attacks, if Jonas plays on the left then i think we should look to buy a player who cuts in as well for the right. That gives us an extra dimension on the wing. It worked with Ginola/Gillespie Thats a fair point. Pissed on my point form a great height in fact.

Thank you for pointing that out. I'm well and truely sick of people suggesting Jonas in the centre. For the record i'd be looking to play him on the left and buying a right winger. Valencia would be nice. I dont like having inbalanced wing attacks, if Jonas plays on the left then i think we should look to buy a player who cuts in as well for the right. That gives us an extra dimension on the wing.

I am shocked no one went for him. O'Neill would have been far better off spending that £12 million on him rather than Milner. Larsson is at least 3 times the player. You really have to wonder wht some of these managers are looking at sometimes. Milner doesn't do a single thing better than Larsson. Not one thing. Crazy. Milner is british and that makes him better than Larsson. Fact.

Wenger converted Cole from a left winger to a left full back, the season before he made his break through SBR tried to sign him but Wenger turned the bid down (according to the Chronicle so probably bollix) Anyway I like N'Zogbia but find him frustrating at times because there's something missing, a spark or something, he just nevers seems that enthusiastic or happy on the pitch. Could well be to do with treatment etc but it's always going to make you easier to drop and not get the games you crave \ deserve etc. I think both N'Zogbia and the club's coaching staff need to put alot of work in, firstly to decide on which postion is his best and then on how he gets the best out of his talents. I don't think Charlie has the neccessary attitude and the staff don't have the time given that there are in temp situation at present. Is that right? I heard that Cole was a striker before being convertedto a LB at an early age? As long as Duff is here and we have a home nation manager then Zog wont play consistent enough to get a good run of games. I dont see him as a left back becasue he doesnt have the positional sense, hes not a cm becasue hes not disciplined enough and his passing range isnt good enoug, his only position for me is a winger, he'll get back but also offer alot going forward, especially on the break, if he learns to make better decisions (possible with good training) then he can be an very good player.