fredbob

This

Be interesting to see if a) this meeting is legit, seems that way and b) what Keegans response will be after this supposed meeting. Keegan is one of the easiest people to read and it will show alot about his relationship with the board et al in light of recent events.

He always struck me as a canny lad during interviews, really well spoken but iknew deep down when his blood started to boil he was a cunt. Agree with what he said about him and Kluivert, i thought Kluivert brought Bellamys game on when they played together, always remember there being discontent amoingst the fans when them 2 were forced apart when Shearer got back in.

Apart from the top 4, none of the others have a realistic chance of winning anything, yes the two cups will have been won by a team outside of the top 4 but that's just like Everton finishing 4th once, it's a rare occurrence and is no more likely to happen next year than any other year in the last 10 or 15 years. We're not in Europe next season while some of the teams above us are, I'd be very surprised if some of the teams above us have more to offer than we do because I doubt some of the teams above us will be in that position for too long. I doubt Martin O'Neill is that well known outside of Britain, the same goes for Redknapp, Hughes (to a lesser extent) and Curbishley. The comments by Keegan will be forgotten about within a couple of weeks and I doubt many foreign players have even picked up what was said. Which of those former England managers were the ones that succeeded? Anyway, this argument is stupid, were obviously s*** and are doomed for next season. See i dont know what you are arguing now, it seems to be more of a retort to anything i say rather than an argument for what you're saying. Basically im saying Keegans comments may damage us becasue he is underselling one of our 2 fronts of appeal. Our 2 fronts of appeal are finance and ambition. So he's shot himself in the foot somewhat by undermining the overall ambition of the club before we've even got started. What im saying, is its especially damaging becasue unlike a few years ago, (2004 was the year you mentioned) we dont have as many fronts of appeal for potential signings as we did then so its incomparable. You look at other clubs around us and they have the exact same fronts of appeal; finance and ambition(which they arent underselling) and they also have others such as Europe, cup wins etc. Ill say that Hoddle and Veneables achieved more at international level than Keegan - but they definitely arent big names. If you want to win a fight, you dont tie one of your hands behind your back, especially when your oppositions has more fists than a Hindu god.

NUFC in 2004 were 14th in the league so the opportunity of silverware wasn't as good as it is now although the difference in negligible but it still exists. I'm struggling how you can use money as an issue since we've been turned down by 2 players who were offered more to come here but chose not to for whatever reason. As for Keegan and England, he was given that job on merit and people will know him because of it. Keegan being out of the game for 3 years will not change the fact that he’s a big name manager. See, you're so close to realising why we arent on the same playing field now as we were in 2004 its unreal. Thats what im arguing, thats why im saying its imperative we dont undersell our ambitin like Keegan has. Im not saying money is an issue for us, im saying its no longer one of our ace cards like it was becasue everyone else who competing with us has that card now. We got trumped to 2 signings becasue they can offer more than us footballing wise, well every single club above us has something more to offer than us, whether it be silverware, or Europe, or a world reknowned manager, we have none of those things. The only thing we have to sell the club is the ambition, but Keegan with these comments has put a massive dampener on this, making it even more difficult to sign players. As for England- not one of your strongest cards, i mean Hoddle, Taylor, Mclaren, Veneables are big name managers by that yardstick, some of those even suceeded at international level and arent considered big names, Keegan didnt.

get your facts right lad ........ how much money do you think they should have backed them with, and I hope you aren't criticising for going into this debt, while advocating spending more BTW http://www.football.co.uk/newcastle_united/magpies_planning_more_spending_179872.shtml So there, an example where Shepherd failed to meet a valuation for a player, and instead went for a cheap deal in Carr, who as Spurs fans will tell you, they wanted rid at the time. In fact, judging from the bit in bold, Shepherd had already made up his mind that he was going cheap with his right backs. What a success that turned out to be. Meanwhile Miguel remains renowned as one of the best full backs out there. Lies according to Sir Bobby Robson, who instead wanted to sign a local lad in Michael Carrick for £500k but was overruled. As you should know, Carrick is now an £18m England international playing regular games for Manchester United. What a shame Shepherd didn't want toback Robson's footballing expertise. So, having spent millions to get back into the Champions League, you are advocating spending more than the club had to spend are you ? Carrick was at West Ham and cost a lot more than 500k by the way. We missed the boat on Carrick due to not having a youth system. Which was corrected and rebuilt when Shepherd was chairman, which had been needed for about 80 years, the same as the stadium expansion, but don't let the facts get in the way of your point of view. Benfica sold Miguel for £6m. Given how much money Shepherd threw around the following summer (unless of course you don't advocate the debt that this caused), I reckon he could have found the funds if he wanted. Carrick went to Spurs the next season for £2.75m when West Ham had greater financial stability and carrick's stock had risen, so £500k was the valuation. £500k or £2.75m is no difference in the end. Shame we didn't get him as a youngster, but that is no excuse for missing the boat a second time. I edited the post and added lots of players Robson brought to the club with the backing of the board. Do you seriously think that EVERY manager buys EVERY player he wants ? I'm pleased you admit you advocate spending money that the club didn't have, I don't expect to see you criticise them for this in future. James isnt on about SBR getting backing for every single player, James is on about the interferences of signings that Shepherd had and Miguel/ Carr and Carrick/ Butt come to mind as players that Shepherd signed when the other option would of been better. Its something which seemed to occur in the Souness period as well... As for your next bit, so its wrong to criticise the board for not spending decent amount after CL qualification having had 'no money' and its wrong to criticize the board for spending £50m the very next season on players which turned out to be crap, some of which were singed in contreversioal circumstances. ie shepherds signings.

I don't think I am missing the point, since 1969 we've been unable to offer anybody a recent history of winning anything yet we've still attracted players right up until this time, regardless of what others have done in that time. We've been able to attract players while we've has poor managers and other clubs have had good managers and we have got financial clout as we're still outbidding our competitors. For some reason we've lost out on two possible transfers but things like that have happened all of the time, we'll also sign some players and hopefully we'll attract some good ones, I doubt a single player will turn us down because of what Keegan has said. Keegan has been England manager, I'll stand by my thinking that he'd come into the category of being a big name. I feel like we are arguing 2 different things- your point was that Keegans quotes will make no difference, then you point to how Souness was able sign players, ignoring the fact that nufc 2004 are completely incomaprable to nufc 2008. All im saying is that at that time we had a lot more going for us thn we do now. You look at that chaising pack Everton, Villa, Spurs, Man City, Portsmouth and finally us, well we are at the very bottom of that pack with regards to a number factors that might attract a player, the only thing we could of offered is finance (which many other clubs have) and the appeal of unlimited ambition. Thats it, players arent primarily interested in stadiums, or number of fans, they are interested in money, oppurtunity of silverware, current standings of the clubs high profile managers these are things which we lack and for Keegan to come out and dampen our ambition is a little misguided if you ask me. As for Keegan being abig name because he managed England - well are you sure you want to go down that route??

I thought this at the time as well, i think we really missed the boat with Deschamps but i dont think the fans would of took to him and given him the time he'd of needed unlike with Keegan so it would of been a hugely risky appointment. However, im still confident that keegan will do good with or budget and get us looking down on the league rather than up. I'll wait till the beginningof next season before i pass judgement on his appointment,

Do you write for anyone?

I think you're missing the point and mis reading the question - what can we offer to attract players that the others cant, ie we are not the only ones who can offer finances now, we cant offer the lure of a recent cup win, the likes of which Pompey and Spurs can, we cant offer Europe the likes of Everton/Villa, Pompey or Spurs can, and our recent history, the history that would matter to a young up and coming player isnt good either, unlike Spurs, or unlike Everton, hell even this past season will put other clubs in better light than us....our only selling point would of been the unlimited ambition this club could have - remember Ashleys NOTW quotes. Well thats pretty much dampened now, do you see why we arent in a position of strength now? As for Keegan being a big name, you are sadly mistaken, Keegan is a big name in our history in the same sense that Redknapp will be to Portsmouth. How many managers have kept there mouth shut? Sven is onthe verge of being sacked becasue the CL is so important, Ramos has openely aimed for Clas has Moyes but they keep shut about it, no matter the reality.

My point is that we can still compete cash wise, you said we couldn't, I said we could and have mentioned how. We are in no less a position of strength than before as we've got the same to offer regarding Europe (nowt) but still have cash to offer. Keegan will be more of a draw than Souness ever could be so one thing hasn't changed and one has for the better. No i didnt, in fact thats the exact opposite of what i said. As for the rest of your post, well are really sure about that? In souness time we could attract players that Villa, Portsmouth, Man City, Spurs couldnt attract because we had the financial strength and thus the ambition, we were only 1 or 2 seasons away from a 3rd place finish and CL football was only just around the corner-it seemed. Well what can we offer now that the others cant? finances - nope recent silverware - nope good recent history - nope europe - nope high profile manager - nope Undisputable ambition - well maybe not now..... Where is our selling point??

I don't see how the comments have put the club in a bad light, we'll go out next season to do our best in every competition and I don't think we'll lose a single possible incoming transfer because of what Keegan has said. If Spurs tell a player they're aiming to get a champions league spot, and Newcastle tell the same player we won't be getting that spot, who do you think the player will choose? Who would you choose? that much is obvious to a blind man. Keegan will also know the impact of what he said, so why do YOU think he said it and what does it mean I think you are wrong, im not sure he does realise the impact of what he said, well not straight away anyway. I think those comments werent thought at all and were the result of his emotions getting the better of him after the Chelsea match.

So whats your point? You said that if souness could sign players well then how why cant Keegan, well im saying the 2 situations of the clubs are completely imcomparable and that we arent negotiating in a position of strength like we were last time around. Thats why i dont think its wise to release coments of such nature becasue they put a limit on the ambition of the club when really, there shouldnt be, and the fact that there is makes us instantly less appealing as a club, if we cant sell our ambition then what else do we have to sell?

It might be bordering on blind faith but I see people reading comments and predicting the outcome during transfer talks, I think that is crazy. If Souness can bring players to the club then Keegan can regardless of what he says after playing Chelsea, what he's said will be forgotten by most fans in a week or two, players will forget it even sooner. Aye but 'Souness' brought in players at a time when we were the only club outside the 'top 4' who could financially compete with them, we also had Europe and a decent record in recent history. Contrast that now, and we are one of many clubs who can compete with the top 4 financially, we dont have Europe and we dont have a good recent record, we also dont have the 5th strongest squad out there like we did in those days. So we need to be able to sell the club as much as possible to potential targets, something which is a lot more difficult now when the clubs managers has openely said that its "impossible" to break the top 4 in the next 3 years.

You're right, I don't think that. Then your bordering on blind faith and completely disreagrding reality. i just dont see how those comments can be concieved in any positive way, imagine Derby County boss at the start of the season saying staying in the premiership is impossible - i think that thats a pretty comparable situation. Yes getting to 5th place is an excellent target and i for one would be ecstatic with that, but to outright say that making the next big step is impossible is bad management to me. I can think of plenty more sensible approaches to lowering the expectation of the fans than this. This whole thing is reminiscent of the "love it love it" rant, in the sense that it he's let his emotion run his head. The thing that shocks me most about it is that its completely contradictory to what he's said earlier, he's gone a full 180 and turned into a pessimistic Keegan, the same one that left Man City.

Maybe you don't believe it for a second but we've been struggling in the past and still signed players who have improved us, the fact that Keegan has been a realist will not change how we do in future. You dont hink a club which has already developed an inferiority complex and in essence thrown in the towel to the possiblity of challenging for a CL position in the coming years is gonna be damaging for the club transfer wise? You dont think think that the club down in london who are actively vying for a CL spot are gonna benefit from this little outburst?

People say about how the likes of Bassedas and Cordone didn't work out but if you're going for the average South American's then you can't expect them to be World beaters, much like you can't expect much from buying average English players like Smith, there's a lot of good young lads over there and we should be looking to bring some over here. Imagine if Sir Bobby had managed to get Tevez instead of Patrick Kluivert, after all Tevez has said Sir Bobby was watching him when he was in Argentina. Denilson at Arsenal is another quality player. It'd be difficult to get an establisihed player from the South American leagues to adapt, but i dont see the difficulty in getting a youngster to learn his trade in our leagues and develop into a player ready form the prem. Look at most the Arsenal squad.

not being funny but was Kluivert actually that bad?? He was hardly crap just a bit lazy and injury prone and was never gonna get a good run with Bellamy because Shearer would inevitzbly return and demand his place. I can see Ronaldo being alrite in the Prem, for £0 id take a gamble albeit with massive wages but it doesnt have to be a lengthy contract. Kluivert was alctually a gamble i was happy for the club to take, because it was gonna be a win win situation for us.

Ronaldo was said to be looking for a new club as it doesnt look like he's gonna be offered another contract at Milan - would anyone take a massive gamble on him? I probably would, massive gamble but ithink he could make it in the prem.

Well stop worrying then, only last week he was saying Ashley was the perfect owner because he never gave interviews and kept his nose out of Keegan's side of things. Now the papers turn that into "Wha, wha - ASHLEY NEVER SPEAKS TO ME!!!!!!!! For f***'s sake. Precisely, aside from maybe discussing transfer budget, which im sure Mort is aware of anyway, what would Keegan and Ashley want to discuss?I cant see why the owner and manager would ever want to speak football club wise, i'd be a lot more worried if the chairmen and manager werent speaking.

Strange comments, partly agree with Baggio on this, weshouldnt really be manufacturing the negative press that is currently surounding the club, its not healthy and will do nothig to aid us. However, my other take on this quote as well as others is that Keegan is actually trying to prove his ambitions for the "secondary league" he's trying to put space between us and our competitors, its already a foregone conclusion that if a players has the option to choose between us and a top 4 club he'll generally go to the top 4, but what about the calibre of player who isnt quite good enough for the top 4, well where would he go? Well he'd go to the club which is looking to prove its ambition outside the top 4 the most. Maybe Keegans implying that thats us.

Europe would be fucking ideal, give us something to build on, to be honest, as drastic as it sounds Europe is actually imperative, without it we're just another club with a lot of money. Hopefully a top 8 finish would be on the cards, can see Intertoto being a route for us next season, onwards and upwards from then on in.

I agree with this. He didn't cost of a penny, was not one of our higher paid players. You can't fault his desire and work ethic but clearly not of the required standard for NUFC. I wish him luck and hope he has a long career, I can see him doing what Brian Tinnion did when he left us, he carved a very successful career for himself at the lower level. Carr is a competely different story, one of Robson poorer decisions IMO. This should free some room in the salary budget which is a good thing. As for Triosi, I think there comes a time when you have to cut a younger player when they haven't progressed, I think this season he should have been pushing harder for a first team place but instead he's seen the likes of Lua Lua move ahead of him. Again cost of us nothing and wish him all the best. To be fair to SBR, he actually wanted Miguel that portugese RB but the chariman thoguth differently. A swap deal with Viana was mentioned wasn't it? During Euro 2004? Aye, that rings a bell, Viana was still highly rated back in Portugal at that ime as well. Think it was just before 2004, cos that was the summer that Chelsea went gung ho with their money...siging Ferraira and Carvahllo... As an aside Ferreira (sp?) is so average it's untrue. That's not just going off the match yesterday. He's fast and steady defensively but he offers f*** all going forward. What did they pay for him? £12m? Average sums him up perfectly, absolute traversty of a transfer fee, i think it was the Greek RB who shone in that tournament and went to another club for a fraction of that fee. Chelsea got bummed with alot of there transfers that summer. Some absolute stupid transfer fees. £21m for SWP, £17m Duff etc..... that greek RB was seitaridis no? Indeed!

I agree with this. He didn't cost of a penny, was not one of our higher paid players. You can't fault his desire and work ethic but clearly not of the required standard for NUFC. I wish him luck and hope he has a long career, I can see him doing what Brian Tinnion did when he left us, he carved a very successful career for himself at the lower level. Carr is a competely different story, one of Robson poorer decisions IMO. This should free some room in the salary budget which is a good thing. As for Triosi, I think there comes a time when you have to cut a younger player when they haven't progressed, I think this season he should have been pushing harder for a first team place but instead he's seen the likes of Lua Lua move ahead of him. Again cost of us nothing and wish him all the best. To be fair to SBR, he actually wanted Miguel that portugese RB but the chariman thoguth differently. A swap deal with Viana was mentioned wasn't it? During Euro 2004? Aye, that rings a bell, Viana was still highly rated back in Portugal at that ime as well. Think it was just before 2004, cos that was the summer that Chelsea went gung ho with their money...siging Ferraira and Carvahllo... As an aside Ferreira (sp?) is so average it's untrue. That's not just going off the match yesterday. He's fast and steady defensively but he offers f*** all going forward. What did they pay for him? £12m? Average sums him up perfectly, absolute traversty of a transfer fee, i think it was the Greek RB who shone in that tournament and went to another club for a fraction of that fee. Chelsea got bummed with alot of there transfers that summer. Some absolute stupid transfer fees. £21m for SWP, £17m Duff etc.....

I thought we were outbid transfer fee wise at the last minute but offered more persoanlly, but obviously the owners of Modric chose to send him down the road cos it suited them. Thats my take on it.