Novocastrian

          Lovenkrands    Best

Obertan    Cabaye  Jonas      Tiote

R. Taylor    S. Taylor  Colo        Simpson

                      Krul

Can someone explain this to me in layman's terms? Is this right:

 

He loaned a company the money to buy the club.

Any/some of the profit the club makes goes towards paying off the loan that he used to buy the club in the first place? 

 

That is half right. He also paid 140m in CASH to Shepherd and the Halls for the club, so even if his initial loan is paid back through profits that the club makes, there is still the initial capital cost of 140m. I think his total investment in the club is around 280m. If he makes a 40m profit for the past year and uses that to reduce the debt, then his net investment in the club will still be north of 200m, which means that if he sells for anything less than that, he'll have made a loss. And for what it's worth, when you invest almost 300m in anything, you expect returns every year. He's obviously not had any return on his investment over the past 4 years, so there is an opportunity cost to factor into it. A rough estimate of his investment so far is probably around 350m (without taking into account last year's profits).

 

Does he have to disclose any of this? Is it possible to join the dots from the published accounts and find out exactly how the club was bought and who is owed the money?

 

Sorry for sounding like an idiot I just want to understand where the club is financially. 

 

Yeah, you'll be able to see everything from the yearly accounts published. When he repays a bit of the debt back this year, it'll show up in the accounts as a smaller gross debt (which is what I expect to see). Our cashflow is probably not good yet because we're paying out transfers up front and selling in installments, but from a financial perspective, things are improving and the medium term future looks good (low wages, high revenue = profits). Maybe the cash-flow situation will actually look good because we got all the Carroll money up front. If that's the case then our overdraft will be significantly lower than the 36m that it was in the last set of accounts. The trouble is maintaining lower wages which is impossible to do for good players, so you either have to sell them and replace them with players whose wages are lower, or pay them more which will reduce the profit.

 

I'm just giving you an objective look on the finances, by the way. It's obviously no fun as a fan to see negative net spending every window and us having to suffer through watching s**** like Ameobi and Lovenkrands when we should realistically be watching the likes of Gameiro and Ruiz.

This is the Ashley blueprint.

All they had to f***ing do was sign a striker. They didn't have to be a worldbeater, they didn't have to cost £20 million. Just buy one of the many strikers we've been endlessly linked to and suddenly this transfer window looks competent. Hell, even if they'd done what Sunderland have done and brought in Bendtner with an option to buy. Even that would have been better than nowt.

 

They've made us all look like f***ing mugs. 7 months and £35 million to spend and no striker. An absolute disgrace.

We have already got a number of pretty average strikers and a couple of raw prospects. We needed a proper Number 9 to hang our hat on. It needn't have cost £20m but the type of player we needed to replace Carrol was going to cost a fair bit, maybe up to £15m.

We seemed to have a very narrow shortlist of players, mainly based around Ligue 1, what about players plying their trade in other European leagues? South America? Once our supposed preferred options were unavailable we needed to cast the net wider instead of working down the list until we got to Maiga and Roux.

In the end Ashley didn't want to spend the money and another opportunity to move forward and break into the top 6-8 goes begging. As for Pardew, if he had any integrity he would resign.

I strongly think we have signed Modibo Maiga

 

I strongly hope you're right.

 

Don't know if he's any good like.

Auclair on Talksport reckons he's 'not really top drawer'.

A bit of a risk but that's the situation these bungling cunts have put us in.

 

Macheda is a very good player he's getting a lot of stick because of his time at Sampdoria where he had literally no service

 

It's not so much that I don't rate him.  I think he's a talented youngster, a bit unproven at this level mind.  I just don't see the point in improving a player from another team in the league.  People will complain that we didn't play him enough (Rossi), or he'll just f*** off back to Man U at the end of the season and look decent for them (Welbeck).

 

We really should have had our own striker in a long time ago.  It's likely that Macheda will just take the place of Sammy or Vuckic on the bench and hinder their development.

 

At least with Sturridge you know you'll get goals and he'd start every week, and if we got PVA we'd have a chance of signing him at the end of the loan.  Probably the only two loan deals I'd be keen on.

Good post, Macheda is a good player but this makes no sense to us in the long term. All those thinking Macheda is coming in with Maiga/Roux: dream on.

If Macheda comes in then he is the new striker.

There's two types of 'right footed' though.

1. Predominately right footed and,

2. Left foot just for standing.

I believe he falls into the former camp.

Could not sign a Carroll replacement in a few months, could not sign Enrique's replacement in a few weeks but now we have to have faith they can do it in under 48 hours.

 

I don't think there is a word to describe how angry I am, I mean the word angry does not even come close.. livid.. kna not close.. furious.. kna still not close

Too right, millions banked from player sales (and saved wages) and we are still standing around scratching our balls and scrabbling, seemingly, for a loan signing. Would not surprise me in the slightest to have Macheda brought in on loan.

I don't want any player on loan, not even Sturridge. We are, realistically, still one of the richest clubs in the PL, therefore the world, and I cannot believe we can't affored to pay for a suitable striker to replace Carrol. It's fucking ridiculous!!!

i'm also thinking loan striker - bendtner, sturridge, macheda - don't think chamakh, unless they bring in a heavyweight (and wenger is too much of a cheapskate for that...)

Sturridge won't be loaned imho part of their 1st team plans

"Sturridge is in my 1st team plans" *buys Lukaku*

- Andre Trollas Boas. 

I'm sure Anderlecht asked to keep Lukaku on loan for this season and Chelsea refused. Can't see why they would loan him out. Even less chance with Drogba's injury.

I feel slightly sad for Wenger, he is obviously suffering and he is, in my opinion, a top class manager.

Couldn't give a fuck about the Arsenal fans though. I was at the 3-0 at the Emirates a couple of seasons ago and they are the most arrogant bunch of tossers imaginable.

Met another bunch of these chumps at Newcastle airport last season after they had played Sunderland. Their demise is delicious, more please!!!

What's Best v Carroll's goal record since Carroll signed for Liverpool?

Sorry, can't be arsed to google it.

I suspect it's something like Best 7 Carroll 2, anyone confirm?

If we don't sign anyone we've managed to unsettle quite a few players with our 'shadow boxing'.

Impressive.

I can imagine the same angst and anxiety on here if anyone ever starts sniffing around Shola.

what  QPR did wrong?

 

Being s***, people would have preferred him to sign for Lpool.

 

novo was saying something like he quite like QPR and shame on them on this transfer??

I'd rather he went to a club I can't stand like West Ham. Makes it easier to take.

I know people are lining up to take sides but, similar to the Carroll debacle, both Barton and Fat Ash & Co are equally culpable of turning a promising situation (for the player and the club) into what is another self inflicted injury to the team.

More concerned with the lack of another player who won't be replaced.

The transfer fees and wages saved by shipping out Barton, Nolan, Carroll, Enrique etc should have meant the entire playing staff being reshaped into a side capable of pummelling anyone in the bottom half, challenging the for the top 6 and giving the top 4 a good game.

Unfortunately it was just a huge money saving exercise by Fat Ash.

Barton had a few good points but his constant whingeing was disingenuous to say the least. He has his nice long term deal so we should move on. Shame about QPR, I always quite liked them.

In this team, aye. Owen's got absolutely f*** all left in his tank. He's a dreadful footballer. I'd probably put him on par with Lovenkrands, tbf. If the two of them both started 38 games in a 4-4-2, they'd probably have a very similar return. Owen being in a significantly better team, too.

 

If Owen Lovenkrands started every week for Man Utd, staying injury free, while Lovenkrands Owen started every week for us, Owen Lovenkrands would probably have 3 times as many goals as Lovenkrands Owen.

FYP, even Ranger would score in that Man Utd team.

I was quite impressed with Best last night.

He looked a little off the pace, as did most of his team mates.

However, he has good first touch, can hold the ball, make space for himself once he receives it and win his fair share of headers.

He fluffed a couple last night but he is a good finisher. I like him.

I don't think it's because he desperately wants to stay with us; he wants a longterm Nolanesque deal and knows he won't get it here.

I think he is getting twitchy because he was expecting QPR's interest to kick start interest from other, bigger, teams #wishfulthinking

Have read the heartbreaking first post, but not all 17 pages after.

 

I was at Arsenal-Toon match that day. I can recall at least 2 games when we were dangerously overcrowded from that (relegation) season - Aston Villa away, and Sheff Wed at home. Oh boy.*** Everyone should click on the link in my sig. How Kelvin MacKenzie gets on the BBC these days is nowt short of a disgrace.

I was at that match and it was terrifying, I was getting crushed against the concrete stanchions. God knows what was going on that day but the Gallowgate was dangerously overcrowded. I managed to climb out as did loads of others but nothing was really was said afterwards and it was quickly forgotten.

They are forcing Liverpool to waste £100m + on average players.

More pissed off with the lack of replacement than losing Barton.

The 'Joey Barton Show' is in danger of overshadowing everything else the club does.

However, I will always be grateful to him for staying and getting the club back in the PL. Not sure how many of those players (Jonas, Colo, Nolan, Enrique etc) had genuine offers from elsewhere but they stayed to right a wrong so fair play.

Why are we even discussing this? It's from caughtoffside. It's essentially one guy with a blog. He hasn't got any story right yet (that he's broken).

 

Because we've shown we're willing to sell crucial players without replacement, that our transfer policy revolves around resale value, he's quadrupled in value since we bought him, Man United need a defensive midfielder and possibly the only thing which has prevented him going to their rivals is a dislike of London, we've sold our best players around him and stranded him in Ghana in a staggering display of incompetence...

 

Even if it's a rumour that's been pulled out of someone's ass, it's not hard to see why it pushes the right buttons.

Hopefully there will be nothing in this but I remember how the initial Liverpool bid for Carroll was received on this board, 'he'll never leave', 'we will never sell him etc', 'complete load of bollocks' blah blah.

As the story gathered pace and was reported in more outlets this board was swamped it became obvious there was something in it. By the end of the day he was gone.

 

If Tiote is sold I can't wait to hear what Pardew has to say about it. 

 

"When you're in the position we're in, you just can't compete with the big clubs. You are vulnerable."

True, we should probably just give up and become a feeder club for Man City.

If Tiote is sold I can't wait to hear what Pardew has to say about it. 

Wouldn't think he would be the type of midfielder they would be looking for right now......

Why not? They have a multitude of attacking options. They are short of a top class DM.

£14M ?

Makes sense:

Aly Cissokho  £7M

Maiga £7M