Jayson

Thing is i dont really blame Andy for wanting to leave if a club values him highly enough to offer him 80 grand a week & we turn around and say we arent budging on our valuation of what he should get. I know he just signed a contract so you can say he should see that out, but everything changes when a club values you at 30m. I doubt we'd have had to match that wage to get him to stay.

It does get silly like. Hes so generally crap, that people now defend him being blamed in anyway as he gets it so often. Because he cant always possibly be making crap decisions or lying to the fans can he. Thats only what he did all those other times.

Youd be suprised how many were sold on that going off of yesterday. Many are convinced that we were batting away bids endlessly & the whole not coming out with a statement like "we're not selling carroll today regardless" was a coincidence. David craig even said bollocks like "Mike Ashley is trying very hard to resist", what does that even mean realistically? It means offer more and hes yours.

If we'd offered him improved wages he'd likely have stayed. Theres a big difference in 20/30k a week and 80k. One club is obviously valuing you far more than the other. I doubt Ashley made any attempt to negotiate with Carroll to keep him, i think he should have. Man Utd kept Rooney in similar circumstances just recently. It would have shown ambition. If Tottenham were offered 35m for VDV at the end of the window instead im not sure theyd accept, maybe they would. Some players are just better than your clubs current position, Carroll was that for us imo.

"Take this, from Pardew on January 17 for example. "They (Spurs) can put together whatever they like. He is not for sale. I am going to say it for one last time, he is not for sale." Or this from the manager at the end of December. "Andy's career path is here. He just has to keep working hard. We have to have a big-club mentality and hold on to our best players."" Not quite worked out that has it mate. Pardews been done just as much as we have, dont blame him much in this tbh.

Id have cared far less if we'd done this with some foreigners. Its the romantic notion of boyhood hero #9, hearing CARROLLLL in the same way we heard Shearers name. Having a striker representing us that we knew/thought cared about playing for us & watching him dominate defences. That kinda stuff adds something extra. I do however find myself backing Ben Arfa in the same way after all hes gone through, so its possible ofcourse. Just a big shame all this. I wish Hughton was here still, id have atleast had faith in his ability with the money.

Still gutted.

from danwalkerbbc So why was a £35m bid rejected then.. It wasnt. They released that we rejected their 2nd offer & gave no details on what that was, we may well have accepted a 3rd by that point & been calming a backlash. Its common sense. Common sense?, really? Its common sense to say that we hadn't rejected a bid, because we probably, maybe, perhaps had accepted a third bid, so Carroll then asked to leave instead of just leaving and picking up his part of the transfer? That's common sense now? You've tangled up your own thoughts there. Im purely saying that we simply released that we'd turned down a 2nd offer. The idea that this meant a deal was off the table or hadnt already been agreed since that point is all assumptions. David craig was making a point of saying Ashley was resisting selling as much as he could, as if he was "trying his best" & a further way to back this up would be to leak that we'd turned down 2 offers in a row. The point of all of this is to calm a backlash from fans aggravated that we'd given away our best player easily. They were just trying to suggest everywhere that we were trying hard to keep him, which is what you're being lead to think. The fact that we made no attempt to take any deal off the table & were quiet all day suggests the opposite. I'm mixing up my thoughts? Mate I was just emphasising how mixed up your post was. Also yet again what you're saying doesn't fit in with the transfer request. We might already have accepted a third bid before announcing that we'd refused the second bid?, so then why the transfer request? If we'd accepted a bid why the f*** would Carroll then put in a transfer request? If he put it in before the third bid.. if there even was one, then again it comes back to us rejected a bid, him handing in a request, then us accepted the next bid. Again Carroll asked to leave after we rejected a bid. Yes? The 2nd bid could have happened hours before reported & Carroll may have handed in his request etc before we'd even reported it. Carroll asked to leave whilst we were likely playing games with Liverpool to get them to reach our valuation. The claim is that he wanted to leave for whatever reason when we leaked we were willing to accept 35 mill, so he puts in said transfer request. Pool reach the asking price and there you go. We release delayed statement about 2nd bid to calm backlash, deal is potentially already done behind the scenes. Maybe not, just possible is all. The initial reaction is that things happen when reported, im just saying thats an assumption & we have no idea what happened. David craig was basically fed lines all night like a puppet. Move on now anyway, may aswell leave it be & start trying to find some positivity out of it all.

Ive been over it enough times tbf I dont doubt that we rejected the bids, it means very little. We made liverpool fully aware that A deal was on the table & that we were willing to sell. They had the money coming in to match what we wanted, they knew we knew that & had little room to negotiate because of that. Yes Carrolls at fault for handing in a request. Whether for reasons of wanting a much higher wage or being disillusioned by us being so willing to let him go. Either way he should have done better by us fans & for the team he loves. He didnt, he let us down & went for the money. Both Ashley & Carroll have let us down. The transfer is poor news for us, hopefully we will make a positive somehow. It gets tiring having all this positive progression knocked away for no reason though & Ashley is a common theme.

from danwalkerbbc So why was a £35m bid rejected then.. It wasnt. They released that we rejected their 2nd offer & gave no details on what that was, we may well have accepted a 3rd by that point & been calming a backlash. Its common sense. Common sense?, really? Its common sense to say that we hadn't rejected a bid, because we probably, maybe, perhaps had accepted a third bid, so Carroll then asked to leave instead of just leaving and picking up his part of the transfer? That's common sense now? You've tangled up your own thoughts there. Im purely saying that we simply released that we'd turned down a 2nd offer. The idea that this meant a deal was off the table or hadnt already been agreed since that point is all assumptions. David craig was making a point of saying Ashley was resisting selling as much as he could, as if he was "trying his best" & a further way to back this up would be to leak that we'd turned down 2 offers in a row. The point of all of this is to calm a backlash from fans aggravated that we'd given away our best player easily. They were just trying to suggest everywhere that we were trying hard to keep him, which is what you're being lead to think. The fact that we made no attempt to take any deal off the table & were quiet all day suggests the opposite.

from danwalkerbbc So why was a £35m bid rejected then.. It wasnt. They released that we rejected their 2nd offer & gave no details on what that was, we may well have accepted a 3rd by that point & been calming a backlash. Its common sense. before or after the transfer request ? Before. Craig was already talking about how he still expected the deal was on & how we'd be spending the money in the summer. It was clearly all on still, people just got overexcited when we released that an offer had been rejected. It was never suggested that that was the end of it in any way atall, quite the opposite.

It was never released that we rejected 35m

from danwalkerbbc So why was a £35m bid rejected then.. It wasnt. They released that we rejected their 2nd offer & gave no details on what that was, we may well have accepted a 3rd by that point & been calming a backlash. Its common sense.

Its incredible that this scenario, which is you're opinion not fact, leaves Carroll completely blameless. Correct, it is my opinion. It's speculation on a situation that simply cannot be credibly taken at face value. For Andy, I believe that money talks and in the end, once he sees that he has a chance to win trophies at 3x the pay, he's going to do it. When he sees the club willing to sell him, it reiterates that the club aren't serious about winning or spending. Makes the decision to put in the transfer request much easier. For me, the blame is primarily on Ashley, less on Carroll. He has no intention on getting us to European football, which should be his goal. The business model he believes in of being a shoestring club that develops young/low-wage players and selling them off may be good for his bottom-line, but for any fans who are serious about competing for Europe and building a club that aims for winning shiny silver things that go in nice glass cabinets, you should be aware very much by now that Michael Ashley does not share your ambition. Well put

Well lets hope we stay up now, not a great sign of our intentions for the rest of our lads

That felt heart-wrenching to read, mainly because it's all completely true. Well put & completely gutting

On what? Proven, top quality players and the best youngsters (like Carroll) just wouldn't sign for us due to our lack of ambition, status our wage structure and geographical location. So we're left with either second rate or unproven players, most of who have every chance of ending up a surplus to requirements drain on the wage bill. And this is key

Because it makes complete sense to trust what they feed you regardless of their dodgy history of feeding people pigshit Aslong as we can call it the official line, who cares who writes it. Genius. What? Because it makes more sense to completely make up the suggestion that Ashley forced Carroll to hand in a transfer request? Aye whatever It makes a whole lot of sense to suggest that as being massively possible yes ? You're missing the argument completely. No one is saying Carroll is free from blame. Ashley has made no attempt whatsoever to keep him here & has kept negotiating with the interested side whilst Carroll has been made aware he'd get a huge pay increase whilst Ashley offers nothing in return. Carroll submits transfer request exactly as Ashley wants. They are both to blame. Ashley avoiding any blame is embarrassing.

Because it makes complete sense to trust what they feed you regardless of their dodgy history of feeding people pigshit Aslong as we can call it the official line, who cares who writes it. Genius.

Carroll didn't have to put in a transfer request when we'd rejected two offers which I'm sure Ashley would have snapped Liverpool's hands off for if this was all about cash if he didn't want to go. Ive no idea why you would trust the words of men who were proven in court to have previously lied to fans specifically to protect their image. They now come out mid silence all day & state that theyve declined a 2nd offer, whilst david craig reports that the deal still isnt over & how we'd spend the money & you can see no motive behind releasing that statement no ? Carroll isnt free from blame. He obviously wanted a pay increase. The reality is that im pretty sure we could have kept him if we'd increased his contract & i see no reason why Ashley would have attempted to try over taking the money.

this. Not this. They did not reject the transfer They did. How ? Before the muppet handed in his request. They didnt reject a transfer, they held out for a higher price That is you fitting things into your conspiracy theory. That is basic common sense ffs. If someone has a massive amount of money coming in & is desperate for something you own, you dont accept the first offer they give you. Dont be simple. They were silent all day & made no attempt to come out to state he wasnt for sale atall. They kept inviting offers, explain how they didnt. They rejected a transfer, Carroll clearly tapped up by Liverpool put's in transfer request forcing Ashley's hand. NUFC then accept the next bid, as they want to try to get replacement in ASAP. Explain why we didnt make a definitive statement saying Carroll wasnt for sale today if he was not on offer. Liverpool didn't with Fernando Torres and he's joining Chelsea isn't he. Yes..... the side not ruling out a transfer are selling their player and this helps you how

this. Not this. They did not reject the transfer They did. How ? Before the muppet handed in his request. They didnt reject a transfer, they held out for a higher price That is you fitting things into your conspiracy theory. That is basic common sense ffs. If someone has a massive amount of money coming in & is desperate for something you own, you dont accept the first offer they give you. Dont be simple. They were silent all day & made no attempt to come out to state he wasnt for sale atall. They kept inviting offers, explain how they didnt. They rejected a transfer, Carroll clearly tapped up by Liverpool put's in transfer request forcing Ashley's hand. NUFC then accept the next bid, as they want to try to get replacement in ASAP. Explain why we didnt make a definitive statement saying Carroll wasnt for sale today if he was not on offer.

Thats the one positive, the hope that we'll now improve as a team. As a football fan though its so gutting when its one of your own. Suppose its what Everton did with Rooney.

this. Not this. They did not reject the transfer They did. How ? Before the muppet handed in his request. They didnt reject a transfer, they held out for a higher price That is you fitting things into your conspiracy theory. That is basic common sense ffs. If someone has a massive amount of money coming in & is desperate for something you own, you dont accept the first offer they give you. Dont be simple. They were silent all day & made no attempt to come out to state he wasnt for sale atall. They kept inviting offers, explain how they didnt.

David craig was waffling on about how we'd spend the money in summer well after it came out we'd rejected the 2nd offer btw. And before Carroll put in his request. The transfer was always on & we were always going to sell. He has been calming down any backlash to the transfer everytime hes been on screen.