Interpolic

It does seem to be a case of overly simplistic arguments claiming to cancel out apparently overly negative viewpoints on here like, same as it ever was. We won, what else do you want? It worked 2 years ago in completely different circumstances - why not try the same again? And after all, only one approach ever works (because that's the only approach we ever see work, because that's the only approach we ever adopt). All teams get mauled when they go in front, we're not Brazil. Etc etc. Until the end of time.

The different manager bit is key as well, Swansea aren't the same side they were under Rodgers that would pass the ball to death whether an opening came or not.

I find it interesting that we were originally talking about comparing squads from the last 5-10 years to the current one and now we're going back to the year we nearly won the title almost 20 years ago like. Not that I agree Pardew's doing better with his resources as such, just saying.

We were playing a team who had won 1 of their last 11 at home (IIRC?), I wonder if the other 10 teams that got a result there aimed simply to nullify the opposition, soak up the pressure of excessive possession and play on the counter attack in the hope of getting a goal. They might have done, I don't watch all of Swansea's matches (I watch all of ours instead ) - I doubt they did though. There's also the point that approaching a game against a team that has such a poor recent home record with such a fearful and overly respectful approach is fucking nuts and actually pretty pathetic, especially off the back of 4 wins for ourselves.

There isn't a stat for that. As much as I like some of HF's statistics, there doesn't appear to be much comment on performances from a football viewer's perspective.

I agree. Including Pardew. Everything is in order. Man. Depressing. I've continually said with Pardew that we have a better set of players than our performances show, it should be a bit of fun watching us but it isn't. I don't see why what hippo-heed was deeing with Rozenhal and Cacapa or whoever has much relevance, this is the here and now and you've said nothing that makes me think that a decent coach off the continent couldn't do a better job of entertaining while still getting results. This "most of our managers have been shit so this is a way to prove Pardew is a bit less shit, with very little focus on context or subjective analysis of performances" stuff isn't for me. And that's probably me done for the night, maybe another time though.

Your general point always seems to be more around who the fuck would work under Ashley, which is something I can get on board with but not this. Comparing Pardew's record to that of a load of failed NUFC managers and not giving any credence to the idea that we have at certain points had more or less gifted sets of players and also pretty much ignoring style of football (that doesn't fall into anything you can quantify with stats, e.g. no of long balls) seems completely pointless to me.

He has better players than those managers and we've appointed some appalling managers.

Would be cool if Pardew agreed with you, he doesn't though.

2-0, 1-0, 2-1, 2-1, ahem0-3ahem m8 - do one.

But he's a shit manager, it's only fair to compare him with other shit. It's been suggested ANY other manager in the league would be an improvement. Including Allardyce and Hughton. Ignoring the idea that he's got a better side then? That would be another reason those previous managers should be lambasted then. Poor judgement of players and wasting of funds. We certainly invested a great deal more on the pitch back then. So those managers SHOULD have got more from the players they saw value in. Pardew might have some better individuals. But he doesn't get the players he wants when he needs them. he has to make do with good value players when they're available. Come on man, you're comparing chalk and cheese. How far were we going back again, which squads would you like to compare? This squad is easily the best we've had since Robson's last IMO and I'm happy to compare it player by player to any other that's gone before it in the last 5-10 years if you like. The squad's not entirely balanced but neither have any of the other squads been. Not sure why you're bringing the manager's involvement in transfer policy into this so strongly when the argument is about resources at the manager's disposal and the performances and results of those managers. Also you're living in a strange world if you think Shepherd wasn't dictating transfers in a way that contradicted what the manager was actually after, it's not like those managers had full control over transfers.

I reckon Hughton would have made a better fist of last season btw, Pardew couldn't have done much worse with the resources he had.

But he's a shit manager, it's only fair to compare him with other shit. It's been suggested ANY other manager in the league would be an improvement. Including Allardyce and Hughton. Ignoring the idea that he's got a better side then?

That's the thing about stats. Anyone can use them to make useless but wankworthy points. Ironic don't you think? I don't think Dave's point is useless or wankworthy. It's quite illuminating but requires the context. Percentage of PL games won by two or more Bobby Robson 27/112 - 24% Alan Pardew 17/112 - 15% Prior to Pardew 14/112- 12% While Pardew is not as good as Bobby Robson (who is?) He is an improvement on the managers we had for 3 or 4 seasons prior to his arrival. At least on this narrow criteria. If he had won another 10 games over 3 years by 2 would it make him as good as Robson? Nah. I don't think it would even get half the forum off his back. You're comparing him to shit managers who had worse players and again not taking into account evidence that can't be accounted for by stats, let's call it anecodotal, e.g. there were games we won by 1 goal under Robson where we totally cruised it and I can't remember many under Pardew where I wasn't totally shitting myself.

http://www.eatthedamncake.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/spectrum3.jpg vs http://f1simplified.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/white-and-black-half-diagonal.gif It's impossible to argue with people that act like life or football is like the latter.

Is Neil winning yet btw? I reckon he's 1-0 up at this point.

And in the 15 Premier League games or so before Pardew was appointed we won 1 game 5-1 and another 6-0, just in case HF was after a recent comparison like.

I've personally never had a problem with your use of them, they can be of interest and of use and data analysis forms a big part of what I do for a living. Football is a very subjective thing though, stats will never prove the point alone. Your point about us playing less long balls has proven to be increasingly spot-on in terms of us clearly beginning to rely on the hoof less and less. I still don't enjoy watching our games much though, for many reasons that stats can't necessarily convey.

Woohoo btw, I got given Obertan.

e.g. Wigan, Swansea, Stoke.

Sovereign states etc.

My post had absolutely nothing to do with Pardew's say on transfer policy btw madras, would be amazed if anybody thought it did.

The same tactics that has been criticized by plenty on here even after four wins... I was going to leave that for tonight and bring it up tomorrow but the claim of sitting back "all the time" after taking a lead etc, I watched west brom-villa the other week, west brom 2-0 up at half time and the second half they got battered, was that because they sat back or two teams without a gulf between them and when one takes a lead the other has more of a need to attack a bit more (like the start of the second half tonight actually). i don't think we have tactics to do that constantly, we have done it at times and we've normally paid for it, but most times it's the natural way of things like we witnessed on the box at the hawthorns. Yep, happened in one game involving 2 different teams that madras saw so we can discount it happening before our eyes as "the natural way of things" in almost every game under Pardew in which we've taken the lead. i used a recent game many would have saw as an example, you don't think it's natural that a team after going a goal down pushes on a bit more ? we saw that we did tonight got caught doing it but we did. Of course it happens to a degree but as usual you're treating situations as black and white, one or the other. When we have a lead we regularly go from playing some very decent football indeed to not being able/willing to string 2 passes together, switching to hoofing as the only means of defending, sitting 10 yards further back, and generally inviting pressure. There's no way it's a coincidence that this happens to the extent that it does under Pardew as you suggest, and I'm basing that on 20 years of watching football matches including NUFC ones and seeing trends rather than 1 game in the Midlands. naturally you know I'm basing it on longer, to my mind it;s a mix of things, the team going a goal down will want to push, the other team will be expecting this, it's not a tactic. hoofing was a problem last year but watch other teams, they do it aswell when under pressure. fwiw i do think we suffer from struggling to handle the pressure that other teams naturally put on after going a goal down, also why we struggle after going a goa l behind but it's not necessarily tactical, it's the players being quite one paced in that they can't up the tempo for longer periods that are needed. I wasn't trying to have a competition on who had watched football longer, i.e. who's older. I just think you're wrong, I think certainly you'll encounter more of a backlash when you go in front but under Keegan, Robson and even the likes of Roeder at times there'd be plenty of games where we'd go in front then go on to win the game comfortably, generally playing in a similar way from start to finish. Pardew has been here 3 years and if I thought really hard I could probably only give you a handful of times when that's occurred, tops. But nah, it's not a tactic. I understand what you mean...........but (you knew that was coming didncha ?) I don't think he'd use a tactic which has failed so often for him, then what, what if it's the players ? why do you think we struggle when we go a goal down, are the tactics still to defend ? The tactics appear to be to nick a goal then perhaps another then defend it for our lives, cancel the game out as a spectator sport at best and come unstuck at worst. There isn't much of a Plan B when we go behind, the records show you that because we've rarely managed to turn that scenario into anything other than a loss. It's funny that you blame the players when our player turnover's been pretty high over the years that Pardew has been in charge, it's a bit of a mad coincidence that we keep buying these players that love hanging on for dear life every time they go ahead in a game. In fact I think it happened less in his first half season before he'd managed to implement his coaching methods, we actually did batter a few teams during that period. Anyway, for comparative purposes, Pardew's side vs Liverpool in 2010: Krul Simpson Jose Enrique Tiote Steven Taylor Campbell Barton Nolan Carroll Ameobi Gutierrez Pardew's side tonight: Krul Debuchy Williamson Coloccini Santon Tiote Cabaye Sissoko Gouffran Sh.Ameobi Remy Seems mad that it's the players like, when it's mainly completely different players. Krul must be influential as f*** in his insistence he wants to earn his wages each week. i thought you were a stalwart of the pardew has no say brigade ? why would he employ the same tactics all the time even when they fuck up, no matter how bad you think he is surely he'd think, "thats not worked week after week, change it a bit" ? Dunno mate, why would he? I've given you various reasons why I think it's a tactic/instruction, you're on to the bare bones of "It doesn't work so why would he do it?" Bringing Obertan on never works, in fact bothering with Obertan rarely has worked during the course of over 2 seasons, why does he do that?

The same tactics that has been criticized by plenty on here even after four wins... I was going to leave that for tonight and bring it up tomorrow but the claim of sitting back "all the time" after taking a lead etc, I watched west brom-villa the other week, west brom 2-0 up at half time and the second half they got battered, was that because they sat back or two teams without a gulf between them and when one takes a lead the other has more of a need to attack a bit more (like the start of the second half tonight actually). i don't think we have tactics to do that constantly, we have done it at times and we've normally paid for it, but most times it's the natural way of things like we witnessed on the box at the hawthorns. Yep, happened in one game involving 2 different teams that madras saw so we can discount it happening before our eyes as "the natural way of things" in almost every game under Pardew in which we've taken the lead. i used a recent game many would have saw as an example, you don't think it's natural that a team after going a goal down pushes on a bit more ? we saw that we did tonight got caught doing it but we did. Of course it happens to a degree but as usual you're treating situations as black and white, one or the other. When we have a lead we regularly go from playing some very decent football indeed to not being able/willing to string 2 passes together, switching to hoofing as the only means of defending, sitting 10 yards further back, and generally inviting pressure. There's no way it's a coincidence that this happens to the extent that it does under Pardew as you suggest, and I'm basing that on 20 years of watching football matches including NUFC ones and seeing trends rather than 1 game in the Midlands. naturally you know I'm basing it on longer, to my mind it;s a mix of things, the team going a goal down will want to push, the other team will be expecting this, it's not a tactic. hoofing was a problem last year but watch other teams, they do it aswell when under pressure. fwiw i do think we suffer from struggling to handle the pressure that other teams naturally put on after going a goal down, also why we struggle after going a goa l behind but it's not necessarily tactical, it's the players being quite one paced in that they can't up the tempo for longer periods that are needed. I wasn't trying to have a competition on who had watched football longer, i.e. who's older. I just think you're wrong, I think certainly you'll encounter more of a backlash when you go in front but under Keegan, Robson and even the likes of Roeder at times there'd be plenty of games where we'd go in front then go on to win the game comfortably, generally playing in a similar way from start to finish. Pardew has been here 3 years and if I thought really hard I could probably only give you a handful of times when that's occurred, tops. But nah, it's not a tactic. I understand what you mean...........but (you knew that was coming didncha ?) I don't think he'd use a tactic which has failed so often for him, then what, what if it's the players ? why do you think we struggle when we go a goal down, are the tactics still to defend ? The tactics appear to be to nick a goal then perhaps another then defend it for our lives, cancel the game out as a spectator sport at best and come unstuck at worst. There isn't much of a Plan B when we go behind, the records show you that because we've rarely managed to turn that scenario into anything other than a loss. It's funny that you blame the players when our player turnover's been pretty high over the years that Pardew has been in charge, it's a bit of a mad coincidence that we keep buying these players that love hanging on for dear life every time they go ahead in a game. In fact I think it happened less in his first half season before he'd managed to implement his coaching methods, we actually did batter a few teams during that period. Anyway, for comparative purposes, Pardew's side vs Liverpool in 2010: Krul Simpson Jose Enrique Tiote Steven Taylor Campbell Barton Nolan Carroll Ameobi Gutierrez Pardew's side tonight: Krul Debuchy Williamson Coloccini Santon Tiote Cabaye Sissoko Gouffran Sh.Ameobi Remy Seems mad that it's the players like, when it's mainly completely different players. Krul must be influential as fuck in his insistence he wants to earn his wages each week.

I appreciated this post in the match thread: I don't believe anyone demands it for 90mins in every match against every opponent, but there's just so little to enjoy about our football IMO. Even when we do find form the manager draws it back. I think that second one's a bit harsh, we've played some pretty nice stuff, this season. Nothing amazing but some enjoyable spells and good movement. That's the point though, we're clearly capable of it. Even the manager's capable of it. We're so needlessly negative. Aye, but it's a bit OTT to say 'there's just so little to enjoy', isn't it? We're playing just as well as we are nervily, considering we seemingly perform in halves. Every time we play well and show signs of dominating the opposition, I know that there's an unnecessary level of cagey nothing-ball just around the corner. Sort of takes the fun out of it, I know what he means.