Hanshithispantz

Come here.

I never said call the whole thing off mind, I just think the debate itself is entirely pointless, I do enjoy reading it though The 2 sides apparently agree with each other, both agree that Pardew is not a good Premiership manager, both also agree that if he is sacked Kinnear will likely be his replacement, and beyond that the appointments could be equally as sketchy. The biggest problem here is Ashley and it always has been. The major dividing point has always seemed to be how acceptable it is to pan Pardew for his mistakes. As I said I do enjoy reading it though (and taking part).

Why do you keep posting on the subject? It's the first time I've posted on the subject. My other posts were regarding the suggestion that Alan Pardew is a better manager than Laudrop and my thoughts on stats vs opinions. I think what you've done here, HappyFace, is you've conflated 3 distinct discussions.

90% of this forum is against Ashley, people just don't think Pardew is a good manager. That's the point. Regardless of whether or not anyone believes we will get anyone better in they just don't like Pardew as a manager (and some as a person) and are sick of the same mistakes being made week in week out as well as the same shit being spouted. "Dissenting voices" also apparently don't like Pardew, in fact they thinks he's a "grade A cunt", but will defend him to the ends of the Earth with a seemingly interminable stream of slanted statistics and graphs because they also reckon Ashley will get someone worse in if he's sacked (ie Kinnear). The debate as a whole is a load of fucking nonsense, it makes no sense at all.

People calling stats "facts" man Stats can be based on facts, as can an opinion, so although it sounds cutting it's really completely irrelevant. "I saw Cisse miss from 5 yards whilst the keeper was on the floor and slice another from 40 yards out for a throw in" is just a grounded by facts as "Cisse Shots Off Target - 2", only the former actually means something.

They actually aren't though They can be, but they can still come down to human judgement and/or error.

We might finish above Swansea we might not, it's irrelevant to how people think Laudrop would cope with our squad.

I'm happy with that progress. We finished 8 points from 8th last year and were absolutely shite. Anything over 50 points and you're pretty much odds on as you're really only the best of a bad bunch. It's only progress if we maintain it and/or improve upon it though. And Pardew showed last year that he's hardly reliably in that respect, especially without investment.

I said before the season that I think we'll finish 8th like, knocked that down to 9-10th now after seeing Everton and Swansea but I think we'll be about there purely because of the dross filling the rest of the league. I think it'll be a torturous and frustrating ride regardless.

Best way to see if people really believe we are so shit. no it's not

Newcastle are 4/1 to finish top 8, not sure where this 4/1 if Newcastle finish above Swansea is coming from like. Happy Face is rather predictably using it as a way to enforce his point though "If you really think that then you'd put money on it, wouldn't you?" Proper oldschool tactics.

You said he did no better at Getafe than Pardew did last season, so if anything "massive failure" was being kind.

Not to mention that a 5 point slip was enough for him to conclude that Laudrop's season with Getafe was a massive failure.

The point isn't that the majority were happy with those managers...but that the majority of managers are a disappointment. Advocating for the sack because of a boring/annoying style of play is asking for another journeyman manager to come in and disappoint, but perhaps a way that doesn't prove as effective. All of those managers should have been sacked and we were right to want them sacked and they were right to be sacked. Just because we've had a string of disappointing managers doesn't mean that we should accept it because we're worried that the next one will be disappointing. If that next one's disappointing then he should be sacked too. In our current predicament, it's a bit different because we pretty much know that the replacement is worse, but that isn't any reason for us to think that Pardew is anything other than absolutely s*** and to maintain the stiff upper lip. Saying that Pardew isn't as bad as Souness, Allardyce or Roeder, or to try and claim that because we've had s*** managers before that this is who we are is a thoroughly depressing and incredibly small-time attitude. It may have a basis in reality because of Mike Ashley, but there's no way that I'm going to let him affect the way that I think and the things that I aspire to for this club. That definitely isn't Kinnear, but it absolutely isn't Pardew either and backing him up with these stats and going on about being careful what you wish for is negative, pessimistic, stagnation. Cracking post!!! It's a great post in theory, but in reality Mike Ashley will be appointing the successor and it will likely be Joe Kinnear or someone equally as bad as Pardew. What does this even mean, man?

I dont think they are actively working against him, i didn't spell that out properly in my reply to HF,imo they just aren't backing him as a chairman should. But you're spot on, Pardew knew that when he took the job. I'm not talking to yee either man Fuck this I'm going to bed.

Nobody is working against Pardew man, the bloke knew what he was fucking signing up for.

howay man the edit surely clears it up? Fuck knars

Anyway "Plays to win" does not equal "win" and you cannot simply say "X team won more home games than Y team so they are the team that is best at winning things and stuff". It doesn't make a lick of sense in any situation, never mind when you are comparing managers from different clubs, who have been at said clubs for different lengths of time and surprisingly have different playing personnel. The whole argument is that a manager with Laudrop's footballing philosophy (like say Laudrop himself) is something that would be very exciting to see in the Newcastle dugout, and they would be a better fit for us than Alan Pardew. Not who has won more home games.

What is the point of the argument? I wasn't talking to you man. Edited my post now as a few posts got in before me.

A season ticket holder saw Newcastle win 33% more games than a Swansea season ticket holder last year. But I know facts tend to cloud the issue so I apologise for mentioning it. "Last year" isn't the same as last season. Is this another one of your creative uses of stats? No. I meant last season. We won 9 at home. They won 6. Its a pointless discussion. Like being asked who would win a fight between the grufallo and sasquatch. I named several other PL managers I wouldn't be fussed on at the same time. It's really not worth pages of discussion. I'd rather win 6 at home but finish 8th, than win 9 and finish 16th. Besides they collected only 2 pts less than us at home, and lost 4 less than we did. Stats are just utter bollocks, and another excuse to give Pardew. You seem to have missed the point of Willie's argument. He only goes to watch a team that plays to win. The fact that Swansea drew more games than we did is of no interest to him. Newcastle won more than them so as someone that wants to see winning football he got his moneys worth more with Newcastle. More than he would any team outside the top 6. I think it's you who's missed the point of the argument like, and dramatically so, unsurprisingly.

I think it's you who's missed the point of the argument like, and dramatically so, unsurprisingly.

Like having a debate with fucking Andrew Largeman from Garden State.

It's obviously not a Pat Hate like, the opposite in fact, but since we're on the subject it's fucking great having a couple of non-NUFC mates who genuinely love football and know their stuff. Especially lower league. It just opens up a whole new conversation, it's class. Try having a talk with a Man U fan (and I'm obviously stereotyping a bit here) and the chances are it'll be fucking shit, even if they aren't being a dick head.

They'd had a year to sort themselves out by that point, maybe? Or maybe not. You'll probably have to ask a Majorca fan instead of raiding wiki.

For what it's worth Getafe finished 5 points worse off in their European season than they did without it, whilst also making the Copa del Rey final. Not even sure what the point of this is anyway, he's clearly a better manager than Alan Pardew ffs.