Toonpack

Nope if a player is sold the residual cash reserve (wages not paid) should be available at that point to add to the pot (in theory) In fact the released reserve and drop in costs should be a sort of double benefit. So, how big is our "pot" currently? How the fuck am I supposed to know that!!, but it "should" be healthily positive.

But, in truth, most teams do, if you think about it, unless or until they have an up front surplus from somewhere, be that a loan from a bank or a dip into the owners pocket or saved up profit/cash. Our owner isn't going to dip into his own pocket, therefore until we generate some surplus/cash up front (i.e.have cash in the bank) the only way to generate it is to sell to buy. Given we haven't bought for a year, we shouldn't have to do that any longer tbh. Unless of course he's taking back his loans asap.

Nope if a player is sold the residual cash reserve (wages not paid) should be available at that point to add to the pot (in theory) In fact the released reserve and drop in costs should be a sort of double benefit.

I'd like to think they were budgeted for separately like The club = one pot of cash, at the bottom line, whichever pot (or budget) wages are covered by they all ultimately come from the same pot. In simple terms: If the club had income of £100 Mill (including player trading) and costs of £80 Mill, they'd have a cash surplus/profit of £20 Mill If they spent that £20 Mill all on transfer fees and excluded wages, in the next year and the £100 Mill stayed the same, the cost base would increase by the wages of those bought with the £20 Mill, so the amount of cash left in year 2 would be less by that wages amount (and Ashley ain't gonna subsidise anything) and that cost base would grow year on year eroding your turnover margin. So by spending or allocating the £20 Mill over fees and wages, whilst the costs still go up by the wages, they are already covered by the allocated cash reserves from year 1 and so in year 2,3,4 etc. you have a sort of neutral position and still have another £20 Mill, if all stays the same. I think !!! (in theory)

As far as I'm concerned, this guy is one of the best football columnists around. World class stuff. Mad Ian McMad??, he's a very eloquent writer but he's a total loon. (always liked his stuff in the Mag way back).

You wouldn't deserve, nor should get one, ahead of a current ST holder at the time though. Hypocritical in the extreme tbh You're stopping going because Ashley is a b******, yet if the b****** (who you despise) by some strange quirk of fate/fluke delivered the chance of "glory" you'd want back in. That'd make you a glory hunter IMO. Hold on, hold on! What if one of those current season ticket holders only got the ticket this season? What if they weren't there through the relegation season? Or the Souness years? Pointless argument. If the guy wanted a ticket for a cup final, and got one, despite jacking in the season ticket, then deserving it doesn't come into it whatsoever. Of course it does, according to some this is the thinnest of the thin of times, therefore someone who supports the team in the leanest of shitty times damn well does deserve a ticket, over someone not there, if there is a glimmer in the darkness. I used to watch the Beckenbauer-esque Glen f***ing Keeley week in week out, does that make me deserve any potential cup final ticket, does it f***. To not attend matches, because we are s***, but then go to a potential "glory" game, is the very definition of a glory hunter. But that isn't what people are doing? It's not people saying "we're s*** I'm not going". People are trying to make a stand against an ownership that has denigrated the club and continues to do so. Can you not see the difference? There is no difference, the ownership has supposedly created "the worst of times" due to which folks are giving up (as happens to many clubs all the time). There are, and will always be "worst of times" and those who go throughout those times are the "real" supporters, everyone else (and I include myself in this) is a fan. I used to be one of those supporters in the REAL worst of times, when we really were unrelentingly shit, I go no longer, I actually stopped when we were actually pretty good (under SBR) for non regime/football related reasons. I am a fan, not a supporter and I deserve fuck all in terms of "experiencing" any glory that may happen along (although I suspect that won't happen anytime soon, irrespective of regime). I certainly won't be trying to get any future final ticket and that's solely on principle because I don't deserve one. If you're stopping going to force change, but you enjoy the match-day experience/craic etc. you are cutting your nose off to spite your face, there likely won't be change, even if there is there's no guarantee of anything being better "on the pitch" which is what it's all supposed to be about I reckon.

You wouldn't deserve, nor should get one, ahead of a current ST holder at the time though. Hypocritical in the extreme tbh You're stopping going because Ashley is a b******, yet if the b****** (who you despise) by some strange quirk of fate/fluke delivered the chance of "glory" you'd want back in. That'd make you a glory hunter IMO. Hold on, hold on! What if one of those current season ticket holders only got the ticket this season? What if they weren't there through the relegation season? Or the Souness years? Pointless argument. If the guy wanted a ticket for a cup final, and got one, despite jacking in the season ticket, then deserving it doesn't come into it whatsoever. Of course it does, according to some this is the thinnest of the thin of times, therefore someone who supports the team in the leanest of shitty times damn well does deserve a ticket, over someone not there, if there is a glimmer in the darkness. I used to watch the Beckenbauer-esque Glen fucking Keeley week in week out, does that make me deserve any potential cup final ticket, does it fuck. To not attend matches, because we are shit, but then go to a potential "glory" game, is the very definition of a glory hunter.

You wouldn't deserve, nor should get one, ahead of a current ST holder at the time though. Hypocritical in the extreme tbh You're stopping going because Ashley is a bastard, yet if the bastard (who you despise) by some strange quirk of fate/fluke delivered the chance of "glory" you'd want back in. That'd make you a glory hunter IMO.

It would be very amusing to revisit this thread in 12 months to see how many of the 39 evacuee's would scrabbling for a cup final ticket if we by some miracle "pulled a mackems". None I'm sure

I don't know how old you are but if you can't remember what happened in 1992 you can't have been following the club for long because before the Magpie Group succeeded in ousting McKeag, crowds were down to below 20,000 and we were heading for the old 3rd Div....after the takeover there was an immediate surge in attendances and by the time we played Grimsby in Nov 92, going for our 12th straight win(which we lost) there were 7000 people locked out. It wasn't until the ground was extended in 93/94 that we were able to satisfy anything LIKE the demand for tickets and as you may know, we had a 20,000 waiting list by 1995.... If you think the fans wouldn't be back under a better more progressive owner, you are way way wrong. My first game was 1967. That surge was KK and results driven absolutely nowt to do with who the owners were. IF we were in the third level, or verging on, do you really really think there'd be the same resurgence, without a corresponding run of results a'la KK's, just because that was the point at which Ashley left.

The Matchday revenue is £24m. The additional TV money could be anywhere between £20m and £40m. He could keep going as he is and give away every ticket in the stadium. He'd have more difficulty keeping up with the other clubs who had increased their spending power. But if you aren't buying any players in 18 months anyway, you're no worse off are you But that can't continue forever and you have to buy someone, sometime, due to Bosman etc. The pot will get smaller by degrees, and the spiral would be downwards, the point still stands, it's not Ashley's pocket that will take the hit. When is the point where the evacuee's declare it's better and do they come back. What if (unlikely I know) the cash not yet spent was splurged in the summer, is that better ?? Would people come back ??

I find this all rather bizarre. So where does it end. If we lose say 50% of ST holders all Ashley will do is cut the clubs cloth so it doesn't cost him any of his own cash, if that cloth cutting takes us on a downward spiral and we end up with a Div 1 budget in Div 1 we'll have maybe 15-20K "core" left - (at the very best). At which point let's say Ashley sells up to some bunch, will everyone come back because the great evil has gone and "our club" is good again and the damage Ashley has done is over ?? I think I know the answer to that one

So long as it's "front rank fire" and not the artillery a'la Saturday that'll be OK.

I'd trade a derby win for beating Man U every season, forever, tbh. Why? I'd rather beat one of the game's really big teams than an average also ran any day of any week. I'm actually surprised that everyone doesn't feel that way tbh. where do you live? Firmly up Mashley's sluice gate. Hello w*****, though you had me on ignore Ola! I do click on occasionally! How's your day? Been good so far I'm pleased to say.

I'd trade a derby win for beating Man U every season, forever, tbh. Why? I'd rather beat one of the game's really big teams than an average also ran any day of any week. I'm actually surprised that everyone doesn't feel that way tbh. where do you live? Whitley Bay way (all my life) You could have done with working in South Shields to give you some perspective. Are there jobs in South Shields ?

I'd trade a derby win for beating Man U every season, forever, tbh. Why? I'd rather beat one of the game's really big teams than an average also ran any day of any week. I'm actually surprised that everyone doesn't feel that way tbh. where do you live? Firmly up Mashley's sluice gate. Hello wanker, though you had me on ignore

I'd trade a derby win for beating Man U every season, forever, tbh. Why? I'd rather beat one of the game's really big teams than an average also ran any day of any week. I'm actually surprised that everyone doesn't feel that way tbh. where do you live? Whitley Bay way (all my life)

One game, the stats would say. I thought we played some truly lovely stuff against Norwich, why he abandoned it against Sunderland I can't comprehend mind.

I'd trade a derby win for beating Man U every season, forever, tbh. Why? I'd rather beat one of the game's really big teams than an average also ran any day of any week. I'm actually surprised that everyone doesn't feel that way tbh.

This. I don't think there's any guarantees in football with managers, you could get a highly respectable manager who just can't cut it here or someone who's scoffed at who really kicks on with a club of our size. It's always a gamble getting in a new manager, whatever the credentials. Worrying that you might get worse than what you have is short termism IMO if the current manager can't do his job properly. In the current circumstances at the club, I'm not sure we can truly judge that. I do think he was absolutely culpable for Saturday btw.

I'd trade a derby win for beating Man U every season, forever, tbh.

No, first you jump out of the plane...then you check for a parachute. Did no harm when we ended up with Souness. Ok. You jump out of the plane knowing if you jump and you haven't got a parachute you'll die You're point about Souness is churlish. You denigrate from your sensible posts with nonsense like this. It could be that we bring in a better manager, one who is happy to work with Ashley, but who is also happy to slag him off consistently when we have f*** ups like the last transfer window. That's a must to keep the fans happy with him, but he'll also require enough of a twinkle in his eye that Ashley loves him to bits and is happy to take the criticism and such ability that he can play attractive, attacking football against all opponents with Shola Ameobi, Steven Taylor and Mike Williamson as starters. It could be that they start offering blowjobs and bacon butties with every ticket as well. History suggests neither of those are likely and we'll have a t*** of a manager, unsucked cocks and empty bellies as long as we have this t*** of an owner. Stick to graphs. If the team was getting the right results no one would give a toss what he said. His comments are just another stick to beat him with. 'Attacking football against all opponents' I don't think we have to play Shola, Taylor and Williamson against all opponents. The three of them shouldn't have been on the pitch together in the Derby for a start and that's when we are on our bare bones. :lol: We're 8th right now, that's more right results than wronguns !!

It wasn't really a major reason, it was just an example of the successor dilemma. We can worry about the successor dilemma when there is one. Until the time comes it's just speculation that it will be another backward appointment. Wha? But I mean, if you think the successor is likely to be worse then surely you would take that into account before sacking the bloke you've got? Or you could do what Sunderland did - sack a bad manager and appoint one from the lower leagues who has a growing reputation. Something that was scoffed at on here a year ago but now looks to have been exactly the right move - assuming Ashley won't spend what's required to hire a proven manager. Di Canio was appointed as a manager from the lower leagues with a growing reputation as well. In 13 games Di Canio won 12 points. Poyet managed 13 points in his first 13. This past month for Poyet could prove to be as "flukey" as Pardew's November. It could, but don't expect me to agree with you since I was of the opinion we should have gone for Poyet over a year ago. That was based on I liked how his team was set up, not on stats particularly. Just as well, Sunderland's next league games are Hull at home then City, Arsenal and Liverpool away, if they are still outside of the bottom 3 after that, all credit to them and the way they are set up.

It wasn't really a major reason, it was just an example of the successor dilemma. We can worry about the successor dilemma when there is one. Until the time comes it's just speculation that it will be another backward appointment. Wha? But I mean, if you think the successor is likely to be worse then surely you would take that into account before sacking the bloke you've got? Or you could do what Sunderland did - sack a bad manager and appoint one from the lower leagues who has a growing reputation. Something that was scoffed at on here a year ago but now looks to have been exactly the right move - assuming Ashley won't spend what's required to hire a proven manager. If Di Canio had Sunderland 8th, do you think he would have been sacked He was sacked because Short could see the writing on the wall. We should have seen it after the first 3-0 Sunderland thrashing followed by the 6-0 one against Liverpool. Now we've been given a reminder this week that those results weren't one-offs but point to a major flaw in Pardew's tactical nous. In the main the results up to this weekend would suggest different tbh

It wasn't really a major reason, it was just an example of the successor dilemma. We can worry about the successor dilemma when there is one. Until the time comes it's just speculation that it will be another backward appointment. Wha? But I mean, if you think the successor is likely to be worse then surely you would take that into account before sacking the bloke you've got? Or you could do what Sunderland did - sack a bad manager and appoint one from the lower leagues who has a growing reputation. Something that was scoffed at on here a year ago but now looks to have been exactly the right move - assuming Ashley won't spend what's required to hire a proven manager. If Di Canio had Sunderland 8th, do you think he would have been sacked