Kid Icarus

The recruitment hasn't worked, until it has, at which point everyone just quietly moves on and "I like the look of Gordon/Livramento/Hall/Barnes/Ramsey"

See above. I should just have a pinned post tbh, I've repeated so often. I find it weirder that so many people seem to have memory-holed all of last summer tbh.

The brass neck to say that as someone who's posting with the glee of a kid on Christmas morning. The stereotype of the anti-Howe poster who never posts for yonks then does when times are hard is completely on the money. Before yesterday you were posting once every 2 weeks.

Think it's more a case of being unwilling to accept that mitigating circumstances might be a much bigger factor in our season, on your part. I accept the concerns exist, I just think putting them front and centre as the reason for why the season's turned put how it is is confirmation bias. Managers, even the very best ones, aren't infallible things that constantly triumph over adversity.

I'm not even doing that tbh, I think everyone focusing on Howe now have lost the plot, never mind when anyone was focusing on him while he was delivering us success.

How did that go up until this season?

It gets trotted out because it's completely accurate. Whatever concerns you might have had throughout his time here, they were concerns and you weren't calling for him to be sacked until this season - the one season he hasn't been overwhelmingly successful.

That's two different Newcastle teams tbf, we bought Livramento, Hall, Tonali, Barnes the summer in the middle. I'm not sure xpts are particularly useful as a measure of consistency either tbh

Yeah I know, it was a hypothetical question.

Agree isn't the right word really, because on its own I wouldn't agree with getting rid of Howe at all and regardless of who he's replaced with I wouldn't agree with the decision to get rid. There are some that would make the decision understandable, but none that I would agree with.

I wouldn't agree, but I would understand the move even if I didn't want it or agree with it.

Which consistent teams should I be comparing it with? I just don't think football works like that for the most part. Form is always a thing that happens. Even in 22/23 we had poorer moments, but they were sort of forgotten about because they were draws and imo because back then it was new and exciting.

Probably because of the injury list so bad there were articles written about it.

Really pleased for him. Ironic that it's come at a time that he's out of form, but hopefully this will go some way to helping him find it again. Big fan of Barnes and think he's really underrated.

It's all relative though, their par is PL champions, probably SF of the Champions League, then one of the cups. Finishing 3rd and probably 2nd, getting battered in the CL, winning the League Cup and being in with a shout of the FA Cup is well below par for a team with their nigh on limitless resources and existing squad. I think most would agree that based on our resources par is ~8th in the league and a cup run depending on who we get drawn. Howe has delivered finishes not just matching that, but all above and beyond that. In the process he's 100% set a rod for his own back by making overachievement the expectation imo.

If anything Pep should be being used an example of why mitigating circumstances are huge and why you should give managers who you know can be successful time. Their end of their previous era ended in Summer 2024 and the new one started in January 2025, £500m spent in a year, yet they still aren't a cohesive team that can win consistently.

Those clubs can take their pick of nigh on any manager they want, we can't. I think you'd find if we were in that position there'd be less patience with Howe. Even then, Real Madrid aside those clubs have allowed successful managers to have off seasons - Guardiola and Klopp have had poor seasons.

Unless you're Real Madrid I don't think that's the case tbh. I don't see those things and automatically think 'The thing that needs to change here is our manager' no. I think it's absolutely crackers.

I don't class any of it as sentiment FWIW. I love all of the connection stuff, the way he represents us etc. But what he's done is more important and that isn't sentiment, it's evidence - and he has it in abundance. I think it's really sad to see that a manager can have four amazing seasons of overachievement, then one season of underachievement with tons of mitigating factors, and it's the one year with tons of mitigating circumstances that gets the credence.

I know this is mardi gras for you, but if you could resist the temptation to keep being a weird cringe cunt for no reason that would be great, cheers

It's really sad to see what I would say are the far more impactful points being briefly touched upon , then a fully itemised list of grievances. Things like the mitigating circumstances just being dismissed or 'What he has done in the past' slipped in there without covering how incredible those things are, how consistent those things have been for the vast majority of nigh on 5 years, how recent those things are, then that whole bullet pointed list going into minute details. Honestly sad to see

Ancelotti going to Everton was utterly bizarre, I can't think of another example that gets anywhere close to that happening. I think it tells its own story that he was off after only 18 months the moment one of the big boys came in though. Rafa's slightly different as well I think. It was a shock, definitely, but with hindsight I think he needed to make that step down and hasn't come close to getting back to the level he was known for. I also distinctly remember a portion of our fanbase (and on here) talking very similar to how they do about Howe now - about how Rafa shouldn't be immune to criticism, how the people defending him were Rafa cultists etc Both managers were winding down a bit and not being linked to big clubs at the time as well, whereas Alonso is an up-and-comer who's being linked to everyone, and very, very strongly with Liverpool.

It's more of a guarantee than no CV, that's why they exist. If you need a manager who can do those 5 points you want, you're going to need someone with a CV that shows they can do all of that successfully.

You're strawmanning again, having an opinion isn't conditional. You're overcomplicating it when it's very simple. There are people who think Howe should go, those people are naturally being asked who they think we should replace him with. That's it, it's not a trick. The Alonso stuff is just ridiculous tbh. Me, you, or anyone on the forum doesn't know what Michelle from Eastenders is thinking either, but I could make a pretty educated guess that if you made your move it would result in a restraining order.

If your argument is that a manager should be replaced, it's automatically rightly assumed that you'll want a manager that's better or has a better CV. Why wouldn't you? If your argument is that the club should be looking at rising talent (ironically who Howe was - and has delivered on his potential I should add) then fair enough, but I don't think there's much backing it up as an argument.