Kid Icarus

Get Pope on

The balls on Bellingham celebrating Foden's goal before it even reached him

It didn't deserve one, it's toddler behaviour

Looks just off to me. Honestly not trying to wind you up.

Waaaah waaah waaah

Very similar to when Newcastle are goalless at halftime, the entitled crying bitches are out. That was absolutely fine, totally dominant and it should be at least 1-0. A bit more composure in the final third and it'll come.

In my lifetime, Italy 2006, without question

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Nothing to apologise for, you derailed nothing. We're allowed to talk about Man United players

Completely ruined the end of the match

Aye Peter, so 'subjective' that they stuck their oar in and told the ref to go and look at it again.

About as deliberate as Chalobah's

Ridiculous

I just find this popular opinion absolutely baffling I agree that Cole (and Beckham to an extent) were the only players who consistently performed for England, but Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Beckham were all undoubtedly world class footballers who consistently proved it at club level. The fact they massively underperformed for England, that several managers couldn't get a tune out of them, and this England team of less talented players have performed very well should be a feather in Southgate's cap, but it's not. People somehow immediately jump to the opinion you have and I'm supposed to agree that - all else being equal - I'd rather pick a defence and midfield of Stones, Maguire, Rice, Bellingham and Phillips over Terry, Ferdinand, Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes.

You've misread what I'm saying. Germany's quality counts for little once they get to international tournaments, as in it doesn't matter how bad they might be on paper or in the run up to a tournament, they're still always Germany and usually find a way to succeed. Germany 96 didn't have anything near the quality England did either, so why is the same criticism not thrown at that England team or Venables? That side had the likes of prime Shearer, Sheringham, Gascoigne, Adams, and Seaman. You can't have it both ways like. I do give a shite about the results tbh, but it's not like we've spent our lifetimes being valiant losers playing great stuff. Brief parts of 1990, 1996, and 2004 aside, the football and the results have been largely absolutely shite.

You can just as easily say the 1990 and 1996 teams bottled it by that measure. Rose-tinted glasses cover some obvious flaws like. That 96 team, along with many England teams since, had far better players than this one but had a very brief peak. Where people get this idea that Southgate's holding them back from is baffling. Kane is the only truly World Class player England have. We bemoan how shit our defence is, then bemoan how Southgate sets up to mitigate for that. Going with this method we've got to a semi and a final, often playing very good football that Southgate's never really credited for. Even then, the ends justify the means and like it or not, Southgate's ends beat SBR, Venables and Hoddle. That's the magic of saying they would have done better than Southgate, despite the fact they never did, it's hypothetical so it can never be wrong.

I'm old enough to know that Germany's quality has almost always counted for very little once they get to international tournaments. The 1996 Germany team was nothing special either. Again though, there's literally nothing Southgate can ever do that's good enough. No team has any god given right to be winning tournaments with the other teams that are knocking about, but you'd think Southgate was holding back 1970 Brazil the way people go on. There's some serious, serious amnesia with pre-Southgate England as well.

The likes of France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Brazil, Argentina were still in those tournaments. These supposedly lesser teams beat bigger teams, they come up against Southgate's England, England win and it counts for nothing. England then beat Germany in the 2nd round at the Euros, somehow still means nothing. Honestly, people go on like we were consistently up there fighting with the best of them before Southgate. It's like Iceland never happened.

This is one of those hypothetical realities. You don't see the contradiction in what you're saying then? Considering none of those managers even got the chance, because they fell at earlier hurdles? None of those managers weren't guilty of similar failings either. Every success can't be in spite of him while every failure is because of him.

I can't remember what it was that I watched, but I remember a comment years ago, possibly on one of those 'remember 1996' type programmes, about how it's part of our national psyche to be valiant losers, how in a sense we'd rather go down fighting than actually win if it meant not representing a certain set of English stereotypes. Always thought it was a bit of joke and not really true, but I think about it fairly regularly now and I think it applies with Southgate. Certain people literally hate our 2nd most successful manager of all time and have invented alternate and hypothetical realities in order to justify it.

Definitely not, it's a great result. Just laughing at the serious comments mentioning arrogant posts on here, like it was a site-wide triumph over adversity for poor little humble old uncle Sam.

It was noticeable how little Trippier played anything into the box. Kane was shocking as well mind, so you have to wonder how much that affected us.

Think I'll cherry pick some unrepresentative posts so I can humble brag over a 0-0 The patriots sure do love showing off over nowt.

I feel like that match always happens at some point, complete with the absolutely dog shit Kane and Mount performances. Hopefully they pick up like they have previously.

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