St. Maximin

Ultimately if it wasn’t intentional, it certainly looks it and there’s no clear slip, so it would be wrong for the ref to do otherwise. Often you just have to trust your gut and you can’t always give the player the benefit of the doubt. Then kicking out afterwards really didn’t help his cause either.

Think we should sack him and get Rafa in while there’s a chance.

Great effort for those plucky underdogs to earn a point there. Well done City.

Can’t be having quality teams like Liverpool mixing things up to win the league. Need City to find some form and win for the fifth year in a row.

18 goals/assists in 35 games since the start of last season. Decent 🫡

I’ve been keen to defend him (we’ll go some extent) because I’m from that kind of background and have family and friends who are both Christian and conservative, so feel I can offer a different perspective on how they think. Bit odd I know as I’ve been agnostic for years and don’t like a lot about religion. Said way more than I expected mind, but I keep disagreeing with people and vice versa

My opinions (like I said we don’t know) but I agree with all this apart from the last part. I genuinely think he does agree with the campaign, hence why he wore it. It’s a very weird thing to do if not hence why he’s allowed not to. He’s seen other players like Morsy refuse to wear it and doesn’t support that, but he’s also keen to show he still holds his Christian views despite arguing for inclusivity in football. The alternative view I think also is that he feels (rightly or wrongly) threatened by rainbow campaigns in general - I know view this from being in those circles years ago. I mean he wrote that he loves Jesus/Jesus loves you. That’s a positive message (especially the latter) and Christianity teaches to love everyone like Jesus did, regardless of their sexual orientation or otherwise. Jesus didn’t go round preaching about homosexuality. If he was quoting certain verses in Leviticus that’s a different matter, but he isn’t. I could be wrong of course, but honestly think he’s just an idiot rather than a homophobe and until we have evidence he meant some of the things people have speculated he does, it’s needless attacking him so much.

I can honestly think of multiple possible reasons he did what he did - some sound more honourable than others - but we have zero evidence either way for any of them, homophobic or not. IMO though there’s another fair possibility he’s done it because he both doesn’t support refusing on religious grounds like some players, but is still religious and is keen to point out that’s in his identity while still supporting the cause. It’s very weird to wear in any form if you don’t support it (and honestly I doubt any player doesn’t support it). I honestly think it’s bizarre people are so keen to think the worst in someone, purely because of a gesture he’s done in one week of several years playing professional football and coming across a model pro. Just because you don’t agree with someone’s choice doesn’t mean you shouldn’t appreciate there’s context we don’t know about it. That happens all the time when someone famous does something silly, but we choose to be understanding if we want to be.

Oh come on, you can engage with all my points you know . He wrote he loves Jesus ffs. It’s not hard to see why he might feel a bit uncomfortable over the whole thing if you’re willing to consider the context and complexities. Either that or Jesus was far more vocal about homosexuality in football then I realised.

He said this today: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/clyj2e3dg14o.amp To be honest I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, he’s been an idiot and he’s continued to handle it badly, but some of the outrage is crazy and based on assumptions. All this “he clearly doesn’t support the campaign”, “clearly doesn’t object to footballers being abused being for gay” stuff. We’re so quick to make judgments on what at times very silly young men think because they aren’t wearing an armband, taking the knee or wearing a poppy, rather than figuring out there may be more context. We have that with McLean, yet apparently there’s no leeway here. I sound like a broken record here, but he comes from a Christian background and holds biblical views that he, rightly or wrongly, might feel puts him in a conflicted position. He also may well be aware that the rainbow flag can be used politically and this may also not make him feel comfortable as a Christian, so wants to stress he doesn’t support some of those causes that are separate to homophobia in football. So as a result of those combined, he might feel the need to approach it differently. That doesn’t mean it’s right and it doesn’t mean he’s right in his understanding of the campaign, but it shows there might be some more complexities here entirely unsurprisingly. Like I keep saying, nowhere does being asked to wear a poppy mean you’re celebrating British armed forces killing people in NI. Can’t we just accept these nuances rather than just make all these inferences from thinking the worst in someone? You can still think he’s a complete idiot for what he’s done but he maybe, just maybe, isn’t quite the disgusting evil homophone he’s made out to be purely because he mentioned loving Jesus on his armband. Still bit of a weird thing to do mind.

I still think that's making assumptions. He may well still support both and has his own foolish way of going about it. If it was so clear his religion was more important and that he didn;t agree with the armband, he could do what the other players have done and not wear the armband at all, and still write that he loves Jesus on his shirt. And anyway we're talking about identity and religion is still very much an important part of his. I get that we see things differently here but I think it's a bit of a pointless debate until we know the true intentions behind something. He's a young man who is in an uncommon position within football and handled it badly (I think we all agree that much). He might end up regretting it after all the criticism and abuse he's got over social media, based on assumptions.

Mate that's my whole point. He feels there's a conflict of interest, but people are missing the bit about how the flag gets used and interpreted differently by different groups, with some seeing it as a political symbol. People have their own circumstances and attribute their own understandings to a gesture, rightly or wrongly. I really don't need to keep repeating all this tbh. I'm not saying he's got the right understanding of it. But then you could say the same about James McLean and the poppy, or taking the knee being political etc. A lot of these debates are pointless and we gain nothing by thinking the worst of people. People's actions towards a group say a lot more than whether or not they participate in a gesture they've been told to do.

I know, it's a stupid move. I've not denied that. I have just been trying to add a bit of perspective here rather than a lot of the unnecessary assumptions that have been made. I've mentioned tonnes of times that the rainbow flag is interpreted differently, including within Christian and Muslim circles, of which he is in. In this case it's about inclusion, in others it's political. He may well be wary of the latter, so is feeling a bit conflicted and uncomfortable about everything. Jesus said nothing about gay people in football so to make the assumption he thinks they have no place in the sport is quite ridiculous really when you see the bigger picture. As for the latter, I'm not a Christian so I don't know what it's got to do with me. Of course I think gay people should be included and I'd have no issues wearing it. I also have reservations over anyone being forced to take part in any gesture tbh - the outcry over this being one of the reasons.

I don’t know tbh. He’s clearly a bit of an idiot if he thinks that’s a good idea, whatever his reasons. In this case I’m just saying there’s no evidence he’s saying he doesn’t agree with gay people in football. Same with multiple other cases of footballers refusing to wear it. The fact he’s still wearing it suggests maybe he does agree with more than that Ipswich player, for example, but wants to make clear he still holds his Christian values - to an extent they might still be compatible here. Saying he loves Jesus says nothing about the inclusion of gay people in football as clearly that’s nothing Jesus allegedly spoke about.

If only I was doing that! I'm not defending their views, just trying to explain why people think in such way and what goes on in people's minds, because nothing is ever as simple as a lot of people make out. If that's a bad thing then each to their own