The dark shadow of the D.O.F. (Jol wanted Elano and was ignored).

[Martin Lol]

Edit: I understand the role that Parry, Kenyon and Gill do at their clubs ie the day to day running of the club, every club has someone doing this job, but you don't have to be clued up about football to do that and I bet the managers of all these clubs would not tolerate them sticking their nose into how he runs his team.

 

You have mentioned Spuds a lot and this way of doing things. Isn't it true that both George Graham and Glenn Hoddle had problems with David Pleat who was employed to be a "DOF" ?

 

I'm not sure they had problems with him but if they did and I'll take your word for that then that would be the downside, then again how many managers express problems with the chairman after leaving?

 

The fact is no system is guaranteed to work every time and people like Pleat and Keegan who don't really have a clue about youth development and scouting young players are the problems when they are given jobs because of who they are rather than what they can bring to the table.

 

Martin Jol posted on here about having seen the best of both set ups with getting a good one like Comolli and someone who's clueless like Pleat.

 

I wouldn't say Pleat is clueless, he just waffles on about a load of bollocks, and I bet was a right pain in the arse

 

What you need is a scouting system with some good scouts and a good youth team coach/manager. Why should you need a DOF to organise this ?

 

Comolli is apparently getting the blame for Spurs current position, and Jol wasn't happy with some of the players he was responsible for signing for Spurs. Now, I think that is a situation that I would not want at Newcastle, and any manager worth his salt would not tolerate it.

 

 

 

 

 

Who does the youth coaches, scouts etc answer too? The manager of the first team?

 

As I've said countless times both should be kept separate and the first team manager should concentrate on the first team and nothing else, why not have someone who runs the other side of the club who can devote all of his time to youth development, handling player contracts etc?

 

I'm not sure how Comolli is getting the blame for Spurs place at the moment, you've said yourself that the first team manager is responsible for the first team in terms of results, all Comolli has done is look to replace an average manager in Jol with a far better one in Ramos , getting rumbled tapping him up is hardly ideal but if it benefits the club in the long run then who will care.

 

If someone like MartinJol says this is wrong, fair enough, I read it but he is closer to it than me. Jol apparently conceded to allow Commolli a say or even choose the players to buy, Jol has told Levy that too many of the latest ones aren't good enough and he wasn't happy.

 

Ref your comment above - I think it is deeply disturbing to have a person who buys the players deciding when to sack the manager he buys players for and who to replace him with, and call him a DOF. Who is he accountable to ? Will the directors fire him ? I think he should be the person to get the bullet, not Jol, if this is correct.

 

 

 

Comolli recommends change to the Board and puts forward a list of potential replacements, he isnt the one replacing Jol with Ramos (if it happens).  The DoF is responsible for the overall wellbeing of the Club in all areas, the Head Coach is responsible for all First Team matters.  Jol advised  what areas needed strengthening, Comolli recommended players to Jol but Jol had the right to veto anyone on the list, if Jol was adamant a player wouldn't be picked by him even if he was in the squad, there was little point in going ahead and signing him.  Comolli also recommended areas that he thought should be strengthened.  Ben Alnwick was signed as a compromise, Jol was adamant Robinson was his #1 keeper and plays when fit, Comolli wanted more competition for an area he saw as weak.    It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Robinson is seen as the first casualty of the new regime.

[NE5]

Edit: I understand the role that Parry, Kenyon and Gill do at their clubs ie the day to day running of the club, every club has someone doing this job, but you don't have to be clued up about football to do that and I bet the managers of all these clubs would not tolerate them sticking their nose into how he runs his team.

 

You have mentioned Spuds a lot and this way of doing things. Isn't it true that both George Graham and Glenn Hoddle had problems with David Pleat who was employed to be a "DOF" ?

 

I'm not sure they had problems with him but if they did and I'll take your word for that then that would be the downside, then again how many managers express problems with the chairman after leaving?

 

The fact is no system is guaranteed to work every time and people like Pleat and Keegan who don't really have a clue about youth development and scouting young players are the problems when they are given jobs because of who they are rather than what they can bring to the table.

 

Martin Jol posted on here about having seen the best of both set ups with getting a good one like Comolli and someone who's clueless like Pleat.

 

I wouldn't say Pleat is clueless, he just waffles on about a load of bollocks, and I bet was a right pain in the arse

 

What you need is a scouting system with some good scouts and a good youth team coach/manager. Why should you need a DOF to organise this ?

 

Comolli is apparently getting the blame for Spurs current position, and Jol wasn't happy with some of the players he was responsible for signing for Spurs. Now, I think that is a situation that I would not want at Newcastle, and any manager worth his salt would not tolerate it.

 

 

 

 

 

Who does the youth coaches, scouts etc answer too? The manager of the first team?

 

As I've said countless times both should be kept separate and the first team manager should concentrate on the first team and nothing else, why not have someone who runs the other side of the club who can devote all of his time to youth development, handling player contracts etc?

 

I'm not sure how Comolli is getting the blame for Spurs place at the moment, you've said yourself that the first team manager is responsible for the first team in terms of results, all Comolli has done is look to replace an average manager in Jol with a far better one in Ramos , getting rumbled tapping him up is hardly ideal but if it benefits the club in the long run then who will care.

 

If someone like MartinJol says this is wrong, fair enough, I read it but he is closer to it than me. Jol apparently conceded to allow Commolli a say or even choose the players to buy, Jol has told Levy that too many of the latest ones aren't good enough and he wasn't happy.

 

Ref your comment above - I think it is deeply disturbing to have a person who buys the players deciding when to sack the manager he buys players for and who to replace him with, and call him a DOF. Who is he accountable to ? Will the directors fire him ? I think he should be the person to get the bullet, not Jol, if this is correct.

 

 

 

Comolli recommends change to the Board and puts forward a list of potential replacements, he isnt the one replacing Jol with Ramos (if it happens).  The DoF is responsible for the overall wellbeing of the Club in all areas, the Head Coach is responsible for all First Team matters.  Jol advised  what areas needed strengthening, Comolli recommended players to Jol but Jol had the right to veto anyone on the list, if Jol was adamant a player wouldn't be picked by him even if he was in the squad, there was little point in going ahead and signing him.  Comolli also recommended areas that he thought should be strengthened.  Ben Alnwick was signed as a compromise, Jol was adamant Robinson was his #1 keeper and plays when fit, Comolli wanted more competition for an area he saw as weak.    It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Robinson is seen as the first casualty of the new regime.

 

I'll take your word for it rather than a journo  MJ. I wouldn't be happy having 2 people at loggerheads like this mind. And if I was the manager I wouldn't stand for anyone even attempting to stick their nose into my job, when its me who carries the can [as he has].

 

If people want to work in partnerships like this, they have to be happy with it, and to trust each other and want to work together, like Clough and Taylor did for instance, when Clough trusted Taylor impicitly.

 

 

[KaKa]

Just heard from someone that Ramos might end up at Chelsea!

[Baggio]

Just heard from someone that Ramos might end up at Chelsea!

 

Hopefully he'll end up here.

[Parky]

Just heard from someone that Ramos might end up at Chelsea!

 

Hopefully he'll end up here.

 

[Baggio]

Just heard from someone that Ramos might end up at Chelsea!

 

Hopefully he'll end up here.

 

 

I wonder if Ramos would see 0-0 draws against clubs like Derby and Reading as good results?

[Parky]

Just heard from someone that Ramos might end up at Chelsea!

 

Hopefully he'll end up here.

 

 

I wonder if Ramos would see 0-0 draws against clubs like Derby and Reading as good results?

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/

[Martin Lol]

Edit: I understand the role that Parry, Kenyon and Gill do at their clubs ie the day to day running of the club, every club has someone doing this job, but you don't have to be clued up about football to do that and I bet the managers of all these clubs would not tolerate them sticking their nose into how he runs his team.

 

You have mentioned Spuds a lot and this way of doing things. Isn't it true that both George Graham and Glenn Hoddle had problems with David Pleat who was employed to be a "DOF" ?

 

I'm not sure they had problems with him but if they did and I'll take your word for that then that would be the downside, then again how many managers express problems with the chairman after leaving?

 

The fact is no system is guaranteed to work every time and people like Pleat and Keegan who don't really have a clue about youth development and scouting young players are the problems when they are given jobs because of who they are rather than what they can bring to the table.

 

Martin Jol posted on here about having seen the best of both set ups with getting a good one like Comolli and someone who's clueless like Pleat.

 

I wouldn't say Pleat is clueless, he just waffles on about a load of bollocks, and I bet was a right pain in the arse

 

What you need is a scouting system with some good scouts and a good youth team coach/manager. Why should you need a DOF to organise this ?

 

Comolli is apparently getting the blame for Spurs current position, and Jol wasn't happy with some of the players he was responsible for signing for Spurs. Now, I think that is a situation that I would not want at Newcastle, and any manager worth his salt would not tolerate it.

 

 

 

 

 

Who does the youth coaches, scouts etc answer too? The manager of the first team?

 

As I've said countless times both should be kept separate and the first team manager should concentrate on the first team and nothing else, why not have someone who runs the other side of the club who can devote all of his time to youth development, handling player contracts etc?

 

I'm not sure how Comolli is getting the blame for Spurs place at the moment, you've said yourself that the first team manager is responsible for the first team in terms of results, all Comolli has done is look to replace an average manager in Jol with a far better one in Ramos , getting rumbled tapping him up is hardly ideal but if it benefits the club in the long run then who will care.

 

If someone like MartinJol says this is wrong, fair enough, I read it but he is closer to it than me. Jol apparently conceded to allow Commolli a say or even choose the players to buy, Jol has told Levy that too many of the latest ones aren't good enough and he wasn't happy.

 

Ref your comment above - I think it is deeply disturbing to have a person who buys the players deciding when to sack the manager he buys players for and who to replace him with, and call him a DOF. Who is he accountable to ? Will the directors fire him ? I think he should be the person to get the bullet, not Jol, if this is correct.

 

 

 

Comolli recommends change to the Board and puts forward a list of potential replacements, he isnt the one replacing Jol with Ramos (if it happens).  The DoF is responsible for the overall wellbeing of the Club in all areas, the Head Coach is responsible for all First Team matters.  Jol advised  what areas needed strengthening, Comolli recommended players to Jol but Jol had the right to veto anyone on the list, if Jol was adamant a player wouldn't be picked by him even if he was in the squad, there was little point in going ahead and signing him.  Comolli also recommended areas that he thought should be strengthened.  Ben Alnwick was signed as a compromise, Jol was adamant Robinson was his #1 keeper and plays when fit, Comolli wanted more competition for an area he saw as weak.    It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Robinson is seen as the first casualty of the new regime.

 

I'll take your word for it rather than a journo  MJ. I wouldn't be happy having 2 people at loggerheads like this mind. And if I was the manager I wouldn't stand for anyone even attempting to stick their nose into my job, when its me who carries the can [as he has].

 

If people want to work in partnerships like this, they have to be happy with it, and to trust each other and want to work together, like Clough and Taylor did for instance, when Clough trusted Taylor impicitly.

 

 

 

The point is though that Jol wasn't the manager, he was the Head Coach, exactly the same position that Ramos has now taken.  Comolli very simply is their immediate boss. 

 

Just heard from someone that Ramos might end up at Chelsea!

 

Seems like Chelsea did indeed try to hijack him but I'm not exactly certain why unless Grant was just a means of getting rid of Mourinho.  Anyway, a few people are saying that's what happened, one is saying Comolli was with Ramos at the Dorchester at the time and Ramos put the call on loudspeaker!  That's why in my posts here today I've been saying if he signs for Spurs etc.

[Parky]

Jol knew he was out regardless of results. Disgraceful.

 

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2200773,00.html

[Parky]

Telegraph:

 

"Here's more bad news for a Tottenham board again squirming with embarrassment — surely they appreciate the indignity of a manager's dismissal spreading through the crowd at a match he is supposed to be supervising — and it concerns the director-of-football system they keep trying to operate. The Spanish are going off the idea. Or so Rafa Benitez, the only Spanish manager in the Premier League pending Juande Ramos's arrival at White Hart Lane, was saying on Friday. ''Some people in Spain are starting to think we might be better off with the English idea of the manager being in charge of everything," mused Benitez. He was not being mischievous — although Liverpool's manager must have enjoyed the respite from questions about his own future that, in truth, appear a little ludicrous just five months after he steered the club to a second Champions League final in three seasons."

 

 

Parky gets support from his favourite whipping boy?  mackems.gif

[Martin Lol]

To give a neutral (at the time) assesssment of the role of a DoF, this is an extract of an interview with Juande Ramos in the February 2007 issue of World Soccer.

 

WS:  You're UEFA Cup holders, thrashed Barcelona to win the European Supercup, are top of the Spanish League and playing brilliantly. How have you managed it?

JR:  We've had such self-confidence and conviction since the UEFA Cup Final that we have been able to achieve really excellent results. We beat Barcelona clearly and went on an excellent run in the League. The team has total confidence in our system; there's a real conviction about everything we do. The key is convincing the players to be very ambitious. Sometimes you can lose games, but you have to keep going with it, keep striving to achieve more.

 

WS:  Can that confidence be broken by a couple of bad results?

JR:  I don't think so. We've had a few bad results and come back from them. I try to make the players see that you can win or lose, but that there's a path you have to stick to. You can lose the match, but you can't lose your identity.

 

WS:  Sevilla's success has been coming for a long time, hasn't it? This is a club that does things the right way at almost all levels. The youth system is productive, the signings policy has been successful…

JR:  You won't find us doing here what they do at other clubs, when after one bad season they dump 10 players and get 10 new ones or change the whole structure. Each season we perfect little things, we don't need a huge overhaul every summer. Last season, we got knocked out of the Spanish Cup but carried on in the same manner because we thought we were doing things right. We wouldn't have succeeded if we had thrown away all that good work.

 

WS:  Sevilla have been very successful in the transfer market. How is this achieved?

JR:  There are players we can't afford so we have to look for cheaper players who still give us good results. You're never going to get it 100 per cent right but there are ways of maximising your chances: you don't just look at the player on the pitch but everything about him. You can think someone's a good player and then discover that his private life is a mess. So, you watch him play and train, you speak to those close to him.

 

WS:  Is it easier to work without stars, with players who have won nothing?

JR:  The player who is not a star may be hungrier but the star guarantees you a certain number of victories because he can win games on his own. Sevilla don't have any stars but we win the games on the basis of humility and a level of physical exertion that is very, very high. Teams with stars make far less effort but can win the game with one moment.

 

WS:  How does your relationship with sporting director Monchi work? What roles do you have when it comes to choosing players?

JR:  There's a clear consensus. I tell Monchi the player or type of player I want: fast, tall, left-footed, right- footed, good in the air…and, based on his work and expertise, he says to me: “Look, we have this guy, or this guy.” Between us, we identify the player, or players, who can fit that. But it's not always like that. For example, Freddie Kanoute was a player no one here really knew and I recommended him because I had seen him for Tottenham and West Ham.

 

WS:  Would you like the model to be more like in England, with you controlling the signings?

JR:  In Spain, at other clubs, the sporting director-coach model has caused lots of problems.  The thing is, the coach doesn't really have time to do both jobs. What you need is trust and professionalism.

 

 

The relationship between Coach and DoF is exactly how Comolli wants it to work at Spurs, I do not see there being any major problems between JR and DC.  Incidentally, Ramos, in his first training session today, has been disgusted with the fitness levels of the players and they've had a double training session today, the first time that's happened since Santini was in charge.  May explain why Spurs always seemed to start off brightly then concede late goals.  Also justifies Fergie's comment that he was disappointed with Carrick's fitness level and Bruce's bustup with Hossam Ghaly.

[Skirge]

A DOF is a good way for a club to force out a manager but putting the man they really want in as a DOF.

Keegan got is spot when he said any DOF at any club should be appointed by the manager and no one else.

[Martin Lol]

A DOF is a good way for a club to force out a manager but putting the man they really want in as a DOF.

Keegan got is spot when he said any DOF at any club should be appointed by the manager and no one else.

 

Should be the other way round.  If results go badly, ther coach gets sacked, not the DoF, the DoF is there to maintain continuity if/when the coach is sacked.

 

Therefore, the DoF should appoint the coach looking at his coaching qualities and ensuring that he and the DoF are totally on the same wavelength.  Jol was Arnesen's man and wasn't in tune with Comolli, Ramos is very much Comolli's.

[NE5]

A DOF is a good way for a club to force out a manager but putting the man they really want in as a DOF.

Keegan got is spot when he said any DOF at any club should be appointed by the manager and no one else.

 

Should be the other way round.  If results go badly, ther coach gets sacked, not the DoF, the DoF is there to maintain continuity if/when the coach is sacked.

 

Therefore, the DoF should appoint the coach looking at his coaching qualities and ensuring that he and the DoF are totally on the same wavelength.  Jol was Arnesen's man and wasn't in tune with Comolli, Ramos is very much Comolli's.

 

who is the DOF accountable to ?

 

I suppose we will have to wait and see then, I would say the right method is the one that works, and I don't see Alex Ferguson, Wenger or Benitez for instance being anything other than the absolute number 1. We aren't going to see the likes of David Pleat running the rule and casting judgements over people like that, nor are you going to get Alex Ferguson as a DOF hovering over his successor. Not being funny like, but you either have that situation, or two blokes running the club in tandem.

 

And if the club is doing shit, why do you want to continue stability ?

 

 

[Baggio]

A DOF is a good way for a club to force out a manager but putting the man they really want in as a DOF.

Keegan got is spot when he said any DOF at any club should be appointed by the manager and no one else.

 

Should be the other way round.  If results go badly, ther coach gets sacked, not the DoF, the DoF is there to maintain continuity if/when the coach is sacked.

 

Therefore, the DoF should appoint the coach looking at his coaching qualities and ensuring that he and the DoF are totally on the same wavelength.  Jol was Arnesen's man and wasn't in tune with Comolli, Ramos is very much Comolli's.

 

who is the DOF accountable to ?

 

I suppose we will have to wait and see then, I would say the right method is the one that works, and I don't see Alex Ferguson, Wenger or Benitez for instance being anything other than the absolute number 1. We aren't going to see the likes of David Pleat running the rule and casting judgements over people like that, nor are you going to get Alex Ferguson as a DOF hovering over his successor. Not being funny like, but you either have that situation, or two blokes running the club in tandem.

 

And if the club is doing shit, why do you want to continue stability ?

 

 

 

Why only use examples in this country and use people like Pleat to try and prove a point?

 

Why not look throughout Europe where it is more commonly used, like at Barcelona for example? Or Milan, Sevilla, Real Madrid and Juventus?

 

Are these clubs doing it the wrong way?

 

[Baggio]

To give a neutral (at the time) assesssment of the role of a DoF, this is an extract of an interview with Juande Ramos in the February 2007 issue of World Soccer.

 

WS:  You're UEFA Cup holders, thrashed Barcelona to win the European Supercup, are top of the Spanish League and playing brilliantly. How have you managed it?

JR:  We've had such self-confidence and conviction since the UEFA Cup Final that we have been able to achieve really excellent results. We beat Barcelona clearly and went on an excellent run in the League. The team has total confidence in our system; there's a real conviction about everything we do. The key is convincing the players to be very ambitious. Sometimes you can lose games, but you have to keep going with it, keep striving to achieve more.

 

WS:  Can that confidence be broken by a couple of bad results?

JR:  I don't think so. We've had a few bad results and come back from them. I try to make the players see that you can win or lose, but that there's a path you have to stick to. You can lose the match, but you can't lose your identity.

 

WS:  Sevilla's success has been coming for a long time, hasn't it? This is a club that does things the right way at almost all levels. The youth system is productive, the signings policy has been successful…

JR:  You won't find us doing here what they do at other clubs, when after one bad season they dump 10 players and get 10 new ones or change the whole structure. Each season we perfect little things, we don't need a huge overhaul every summer. Last season, we got knocked out of the Spanish Cup but carried on in the same manner because we thought we were doing things right. We wouldn't have succeeded if we had thrown away all that good work.

 

WS:  Sevilla have been very successful in the transfer market. How is this achieved?

JR:  There are players we can't afford so we have to look for cheaper players who still give us good results. You're never going to get it 100 per cent right but there are ways of maximising your chances: you don't just look at the player on the pitch but everything about him. You can think someone's a good player and then discover that his private life is a mess. So, you watch him play and train, you speak to those close to him.

 

WS:  Is it easier to work without stars, with players who have won nothing?

JR:  The player who is not a star may be hungrier but the star guarantees you a certain number of victories because he can win games on his own. Sevilla don't have any stars but we win the games on the basis of humility and a level of physical exertion that is very, very high. Teams with stars make far less effort but can win the game with one moment.

 

WS:  How does your relationship with sporting director Monchi work? What roles do you have when it comes to choosing players?

JR:  There's a clear consensus. I tell Monchi the player or type of player I want: fast, tall, left-footed, right- footed, good in the air…and, based on his work and expertise, he says to me: “Look, we have this guy, or this guy.” Between us, we identify the player, or players, who can fit that. But it's not always like that. For example, Freddie Kanoute was a player no one here really knew and I recommended him because I had seen him for Tottenham and West Ham.

 

WS:  Would you like the model to be more like in England, with you controlling the signings?

JR:  In Spain, at other clubs, the sporting director-coach model has caused lots of problems.   The thing is, the coach doesn't really have time to do both jobs. What you need is trust and professionalism.

 

 

The relationship between Coach and DoF is exactly how Comolli wants it to work at Spurs, I do not see there being any major problems between JR and DC.  Incidentally, Ramos, in his first training session today, has been disgusted with the fitness levels of the players and they've had a double training session today, the first time that's happened since Santini was in charge.  May explain why Spurs always seemed to start off brightly then concede late goals.  Also justifies Fergie's comment that he was disappointed with Carrick's fitness level and Bruce's bustup with Hossam Ghaly.

 

Good read, I like Ramos as a coach, he had Sevilla playing some excellent football last year and if he gets Spurs playing anywhere close to that then you lot will be in for some enjoyable performances at the Lane.

 

 

[NE5]

A DOF is a good way for a club to force out a manager but putting the man they really want in as a DOF.

Keegan got is spot when he said any DOF at any club should be appointed by the manager and no one else.

 

Should be the other way round.  If results go badly, ther coach gets sacked, not the DoF, the DoF is there to maintain continuity if/when the coach is sacked.

 

Therefore, the DoF should appoint the coach looking at his coaching qualities and ensuring that he and the DoF are totally on the same wavelength.  Jol was Arnesen's man and wasn't in tune with Comolli, Ramos is very much Comolli's.

 

who is the DOF accountable to ?

 

I suppose we will have to wait and see then, I would say the right method is the one that works, and I don't see Alex Ferguson, Wenger or Benitez for instance being anything other than the absolute number 1. We aren't going to see the likes of David Pleat running the rule and casting judgements over people like that, nor are you going to get Alex Ferguson as a DOF hovering over his successor. Not being funny like, but you either have that situation, or two blokes running the club in tandem.

 

And if the club is doing shit, why do you want to continue stability ?

 

 

 

Why only use examples in this country and use people like Pleat to try and prove a point?

 

Why not look throughout Europe where it is more commonly used, like at Barcelona for example? Or Milan, Sevilla, Real Madrid and Juventus?

 

Are these clubs doing it the wrong way?

 

 

I don't know, why not ? This is England, why should the way they do it abroad be better ? Show me a team in England with a setup like those who have won our title ?

 

I used Pleat because he's done it at Spurs. Spurs have operated the system using Jol, and they have sacked him, so show me where it has worked. The object is to do well here in our league, not just copy what they do abroad for the hell of it !!!!

 

At the end of the day, its not the system, its having the right people, or person. You tell me who Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger would be answerable to ? They would both tell their chairmen to get stuffed if they tried to bring in someone who impeded on their authority, and rightly so too.

 

Do every clubs in Spain and italy use this setup ? If so, then it simply proves the point thats its the people and not the system.

 

 

[Martin Lol]

A DOF is a good way for a club to force out a manager but putting the man they really want in as a DOF.

Keegan got is spot when he said any DOF at any club should be appointed by the manager and no one else.

 

Should be the other way round.  If results go badly, ther coach gets sacked, not the DoF, the DoF is there to maintain continuity if/when the coach is sacked.

 

Therefore, the DoF should appoint the coach looking at his coaching qualities and ensuring that he and the DoF are totally on the same wavelength.  Jol was Arnesen's man and wasn't in tune with Comolli, Ramos is very much Comolli's.

 

who is the DOF accountable to ?

 

I suppose we will have to wait and see then, I would say the right method is the one that works, and I don't see Alex Ferguson, Wenger or Benitez for instance being anything other than the absolute number 1. We aren't going to see the likes of David Pleat running the rule and casting judgements over people like that, nor are you going to get Alex Ferguson as a DOF hovering over his successor. Not being funny like, but you either have that situation, or two blokes running the club in tandem.

 

And if the club is doing s***, why do you want to continue stability ?

 

 

 

The DoF is accountable to the Board, no-one else.  He is the one responsible for the day to day running of the club in its entireity.  It the team (not the club) is doing s*** it is the DoF's responsibility to recommend changes to turn things around.  Whilst the DoF system is usual on the continent, it's a fact that it's a rarity in England though it could have been argued that David Dein did the bulk of the DoF job without the title and Wenger and Benitez would have worked under a DoF when they were in France and Spain.  The will to make it work must be there otherwise it will never work satisfactorily.  If its the club that is doing s*** then surely it is down to the chairman/board to put things right.

 

David Pleat was never a true DoF, it was a title given to him by Alan Sugar when Sugar (who knew nothing about the football side) wanted someone to advise him on footballing aspects.  Sugar didn't want meetings with a manager not knowing whether he should do something or not so Pleat came in to be the buffer and take away the direct contact.  Pleat was responsible for buying nets for goals, authorising purchase of fertiliser for the pitches etc amongst other things and he wanted more direct contact.  So he started dabbling in matters outside his area and the friction started.  The truth is that if Hoddle had been the coach with Comolli as DoF instead of David Pleat, Hoddle may well have still been at Spurs now.  Tactically, he was right up there, with transfers he was awful bordering on diabolical.

[johnnypd]

spurs have done pretty well out of the director of football set up, surely? they went from mid-table nothings to top 5 in the space of a few years. they may have messed up Jol's departure but they've ended up with one of the brightest managerial talents in europe so it can't be all bad.

 

we also went down the director of football route, first when Gordon Milne, a proper football man, took the role, and this coincided with our most successful era post-Keegan. this was a bit different to how spurs have it, as Milne answered to Robson and not the other way round. When Shepherd sacked Robson he also got rid of the entire backroom setup Robson had installed, Carver, Woods and Milne. If freddie had to get rid of Robson, what he should've done is task Milne with finding a new boss so we could make a transition and keep in place the structure robson had worked so hard to build. we wouldn't have ended up with Souness had we done that. instead people who know little about football (shepherd and douglas hall) made a complete hash of the succession, and ended up ripping the heart out of the club, including getting rid of our best player at the time, Craig Bellamy. Milne is now Director of Football as Besiktas.

 

and you could also argue that we continued this when Shepherd fancied himself as one, interfering in the playing side of the club, undermining the manager, (allegedly) signing players he wanted and so on. the time when he was doing this was also when we went into a steep decline, the last few months of the robson regime up till the appointment of Allardyce. so it didn't work out too well for us then, but largely because we had someone who knew little about football in the role.

[fredbob]

Ramos for england

[Martin Lol]

spurs have done pretty well out of the director of football set up, surely? they went from mid-table nothings to top 5 in the space of a few years. they may have messed up Jol's departure but they've ended up with one of the brightest managerial talents in europe so it can't be all bad.

 

we also went down the director of football route, first when Gordon Milne, a proper football man, took the role, and this coincided with our most successful era post-Keegan. this was a bit different to how spurs have it, as Milne answered to Robson and not the other way round. When Shepherd sacked Robson he also got rid of the entire backroom setup Robson had installed, Carver, Woods and Milne. If freddie had to get rid of Robson, what he should've done is task Milne with finding a new boss so we could make a transition and keep in place the structure robson had worked so hard to build. we wouldn't have ended up with Souness had we done that. instead people who know little about football (shepherd and douglas hall) made a complete hash of the succession, and ended up ripping the heart out of the club, including getting rid of our best player at the time, Craig Bellamy. Milne is now Director of Football as Besiktas.

 

and you could also argue that we continued this when Shepherd fancied himself as one, interfering in the playing side of the club, undermining the manager, (allegedly) signing players he wanted and so on. the time when he was doing this was also when we went into a steep decline, the last few months of the robson regime up till the appointment of Allardyce. so it didn't work out too well for us then, but largely because we had someone who knew little about football in the role.

 

Spot on!

 

If the basic organisation of the club is right, why rip it up just because a particular manager has come to the end of his shelf life?  With very very few exceptions, the one thing you can guarantee about a new manager coming in is that some time in the future he will be sacked.

[sicsfingeredmong]

Damien Comolli is for me the main reason Jol is out of a job at Spurs and the schemer behind the disgraceful handling of a manager who delivered 5th in the PL and almost got them into the CL recently. Comolli was behind the campaign for Ramos and has been chasing him ever since the summer when apparently Spurs directors were 'dissapointed' with Spurs 5th place which says a lot more about them than Jol. Comolli has wanted a man who can fit into the Spurs continental DOF set up and he has also wanted more control something which Jol hasn't been happy with and fought allegedly. It is no surprise to me that Jol has sought advice from the LMA.

 

Avram Grant is another of this type. A manager with paper thin CV has imo cajoled and schemed his way into Chelsea and also imo been whispering in dark corners agains Mourinho (great CV one of the best managers in the game). How the f*** did one of the best managers in the world lose his job and this strange character with hardly any football experience outside of Israel wind up as Chelsea manager?

 

Happy Harry has already come up against two of them almost as if they were stalking him, firstly Velimir Zajec at Pompey, then Sir Clive Woodward from the world of Rugby at Southampton...Happily Harry has outlived them both, perhaps his London bred infighting skills made the differance.

DOF's are there to take the pressure off the manager and handle the day to day stuff that affects the side and be a strong influence in long term development which would include player purchuses.

 

 

Thus far they just look like scheming c***s to me. When Ramos fails I'd like to see Comolli walk as well, but somehow I doubt it.

 

 

I would be against a DOF system at Newcastle unless expressly chosen and desired by Allardyce.

 

Avram Grant is a long-time and close personal friend of Ambramovich apparently. Mates stick together and regardless of the nationality involved, or more specifically the racial demographic at play, a professional judgment - ie. Mourinho's sacking & Grant's appointment - as a footballing based decision could very well be compromised by a non-footballing based factor as mentioned above. IMO there's no room in football for sentimentality or allegience based decision making, both in the boardroom and matters relating to the playing side.

 

Sad if true, but you could very well be correct re: any cloak & dagger dealings pertaining to Mourinho's demise.

[Martin Lol]

Damien Comolli is for me the main reason Jol is out of a job at Spurs and the schemer behind the disgraceful handling of a manager who delivered 5th in the PL and almost got them into the CL recently. Comolli was behind the campaign for Ramos and has been chasing him ever since the summer when apparently Spurs directors were 'dissapointed' with Spurs 5th place which says a lot more about them than Jol. Comolli has wanted a man who can fit into the Spurs continental DOF set up and he has also wanted more control something which Jol hasn't been happy with and fought allegedly. It is no surprise to me that Jol has sought advice from the LMA.

 

Avram Grant is another of this type. A manager with paper thin CV has imo cajoled and schemed his way into Chelsea and also imo been whispering in dark corners agains Mourinho (great CV one of the best managers in the game). How the f*** did one of the best managers in the world lose his job and this strange character with hardly any football experience outside of Israel wind up as Chelsea manager?

 

Happy Harry has already come up against two of them almost as if they were stalking him, firstly Velimir Zajec at Pompey, then Sir Clive Woodward from the world of Rugby at Southampton...Happily Harry has outlived them both, perhaps his London bred infighting skills made the differance.

DOF's are there to take the pressure off the manager and handle the day to day stuff that affects the side and be a strong influence in long term development which would include player purchuses.

 

 

Thus far they just look like scheming c***s to me. When Ramos fails I'd like to see Comolli walk as well, but somehow I doubt it.

 

 

I would be against a DOF system at Newcastle unless expressly chosen and desired by Allardyce.

 

Avram Grant is a long-time and close personal friend of Ambramovich apparently. Mates stick together and regardless of the nationality involved, or more specifically the racial demographic at play, a professional judgment - ie. Mourinho's sacking & Grant's appointment - as a footballing based decision could very well be compromised by a non-footballing based factor as mentioned above. IMO there's no room in football for sentimentality or allegience based decision making, both in the boardroom and matters relating to the playing side.

 

Sad if true, but you could very well be correct re: any cloak & dagger dealings pertaining to Mourinho's demise.

 

Mourinho's departure in part was imho self-inflicted.  If after winning a couple of Premierships the owner says he wants more flair and style in the play, Mourinho can't be surprised when he's sacked if he carries on as he had done for the past 2 years.  Winning 2 premierships shouldn't be discounted but if Abramovich says he wants attacking play, he'll keep making changes until he gets what he wants.  Abramovich possibly going to his mate Grant saying "Should I get better attacking play from this squad?" and getting  the answer "Of course mate, I could easily produce more exciting play" wouldn't have helped Mourinho's cause either!

[Parky]

A DOF is a good way for a club to force out a manager but putting the man they really want in as a DOF.

Keegan got is spot when he said any DOF at any club should be appointed by the manager and no one else.

 

Should be the other way round.  If results go badly, ther coach gets sacked, not the DoF, the DoF is there to maintain continuity if/when the coach is sacked.

 

Therefore, the DoF should appoint the coach looking at his coaching qualities and ensuring that he and the DoF are totally on the same wavelength.  Jol was Arnesen's man and wasn't in tune with Comolli, Ramos is very much Comolli's.

 

who is the DOF accountable to ?

 

I suppose we will have to wait and see then, I would say the right method is the one that works, and I don't see Alex Ferguson, Wenger or Benitez for instance being anything other than the absolute number 1. We aren't going to see the likes of David Pleat running the rule and casting judgements over people like that, nor are you going to get Alex Ferguson as a DOF hovering over his successor. Not being funny like, but you either have that situation, or two blokes running the club in tandem.

 

And if the club is doing shit, why do you want to continue stability ?

 

 

 

Why only use examples in this country and use people like Pleat to try and prove a point?

 

Why not look throughout Europe where it is more commonly used, like at Barcelona for example? Or Milan, Sevilla, Real Madrid and Juventus?

 

Are these clubs doing it the wrong way?

 

 

I don't know, why not ? This is England, why should the way they do it abroad be better ? Show me a team in England with a setup like those who have won our title ?

 

I used Pleat because he's done it at Spurs. Spurs have operated the system using Jol, and they have sacked him, so show me where it has worked. The object is to do well here in our league, not just copy what they do abroad for the hell of it !!!!

 

At the end of the day, its not the system, its having the right people, or person. You tell me who Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger would be answerable to ? They would both tell their chairmen to get stuffed if they tried to bring in someone who impeded on their authority, and rightly so too.

 

Do every clubs in Spain and italy use this setup ? If so, then it simply proves the point thats its the people and not the system.

 

 

 

 

Europeans don't like making descisions on their own.

 

Benny 'the bad boy goatee' Benitez left his last club due to DOF aggro.

[Parky]

A DOF is a good way for a club to force out a manager but putting the man they really want in as a DOF.

Keegan got is spot when he said any DOF at any club should be appointed by the manager and no one else.

 

Should be the other way round.  If results go badly, ther coach gets sacked, not the DoF, the DoF is there to maintain continuity if/when the coach is sacked.

 

Therefore, the DoF should appoint the coach looking at his coaching qualities and ensuring that he and the DoF are totally on the same wavelength.  Jol was Arnesen's man and wasn't in tune with Comolli, Ramos is very much Comolli's.

 

who is the DOF accountable to ?

 

I suppose we will have to wait and see then, I would say the right method is the one that works, and I don't see Alex Ferguson, Wenger or Benitez for instance being anything other than the absolute number 1. We aren't going to see the likes of David Pleat running the rule and casting judgements over people like that, nor are you going to get Alex Ferguson as a DOF hovering over his successor. Not being funny like, but you either have that situation, or two blokes running the club in tandem.

 

And if the club is doing s***, why do you want to continue stability ?

 

 

 

The DoF is accountable to the Board, no-one else.  He is the one responsible for the day to day running of the club in its entireity.  It the team (not the club) is doing s*** it is the DoF's responsibility to recommend changes to turn things around.  Whilst the DoF system is usual on the continent, it's a fact that it's a rarity in England though it could have been argued that David Dein did the bulk of the DoF job without the title and Wenger and Benitez would have worked under a DoF when they were in France and Spain.  The will to make it work must be there otherwise it will never work satisfactorily.  If its the club that is doing s*** then surely it is down to the chairman/board to put things right.

 

David Pleat was never a true DoF, it was a title given to him by Alan Sugar when Sugar (who knew nothing about the football side) wanted someone to advise him on footballing aspects.  Sugar didn't want meetings with a manager not knowing whether he should do something or not so Pleat came in to be the buffer and take away the direct contact.  Pleat was responsible for buying nets for goals, authorising purchase of fertiliser for the pitches etc amongst other things and he wanted more direct contact.  So he started dabbling in matters outside his area and the friction started.  The truth is that if Hoddle had been the coach with Comolli as DoF instead of David Pleat, Hoddle may well have still been at Spurs now.  Tactically, he was right up there, with transfers he was awful bordering on diabolical.

 

The whole DD thing is such a red herring. DD spent more time wining and dinning than anything.