GM Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 I seem to recall Sam saying (upon appointment) to all the fans that there would be tough times in the early stages, but he would always strive to get things right. I guess we'll see next weekend just how long it will be before Ashley and Mort will wield the axe. If they do, then I'll hang my head in despair. Sooner or later we need (as a club) to simply learn the f****** hard lesson of how to build a successful team and not (as fans) pile on ridiculously high expectation. Slow and steady always wins the race. I'm off for another pint of whwisky. whats pissing people off is that we have a squad much better than the performances given. It doesn't help seeing Sven work such amazing magic with his newly formed squad at Man City and them sdoing quite so blisteringly well either. Does kinda undermine any arguments people may try to make about Sam needing time to settle and gel the team... They've started the season very well, but let's see how they react to that mauling by Chelsea. I'm betting they'll be back all guns blazing, in very bullish style on Monday night. blueyes.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Probably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 I think Portsmouth are a better side. Not clear on what tactical mistakes were made in those first nine minutes today? If we lost due to sam's 'tactics' then those must have gone wrong in that period. Was a bit too hectic for me to catch the subtler nuances of his poor tactics. Just seemed like we got turned over on every mistake we made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 I think Portsmouth are a better side. Not clear on what tactical mistakes were made in those first nine minutes today? If we lost due to sam's 'tactics' then those must have gone wrong in that period. Was a bit too hectic for me to catch the subtler nuances of his poor tactics. Just seemed like we got turned over on every mistake we made. The only errors were in personnel, you could argue had he picked Roz he would have dealt with Benjani and Utaka better (pace) and Beye at right-back may have done a better job than Taylor for the third. That back-header was fucking shite, dropped Cacapa in it big style. All speculation though, might have made no difference whatsoever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 I seem to recall Sam saying (upon appointment) to all the fans that there would be tough times in the early stages, but he would always strive to get things right. I guess we'll see next weekend just how long it will be before Ashley and Mort will wield the axe. If they do, then I'll hang my head in despair. Sooner or later we need (as a club) to simply learn the f****** hard lesson of how to build a successful team and not (as fans) pile on ridiculously high expectation. Slow and steady always wins the race. I'm off for another pint of whwisky. whats pissing people off is that we have a squad much better than the performances given. It doesn't help seeing Sven work such amazing magic with his newly formed squad at Man City and them sdoing quite so blisteringly well either. Does kinda undermine any arguments people may try to make about Sam needing time to settle and gel the team... Not really. Sam was left with the daunting task of basically finding a whole new team. Sven had a solid backbone in Dunne and Richards and a lot of his effort could be focused on getting flair into the team. I'm sure in January and next summer, Sam will look for those flair players. Assuming he's allowed to stay on that long, of course. Which I hope he is, if only just to break this pattern/cycle of hiring and firing managers far too frequently and consequently never building a team. And yp, you're right that Sven had certain key players in place which we certainly lacked. Bringing in an entirely new back four was never going to be without hiccups. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 I think Portsmouth are a better side. Not clear on what tactical mistakes were made in those first nine minutes today? If we lost due to sam's 'tactics' then those must have gone wrong in that period. Was a bit too hectic for me to catch the subtler nuances of his poor tactics. Just seemed like we got turned over on every mistake we made. The only errors were in personnel, you could argue had he picked Roz he would have dealt with Benjani and Utaka better (pace) and Beye at right-back may have done a better job than Taylor for the third. That back-header was fucking shite, dropped Cacapa in it big style. All speculation though, might have made no difference whatsoever. Cant blame him for starting with cacapa even though the switch to roz was the right thing to do. I thought Taylor's atacking performance and Beye's recent form justified that start too. Not really seeing what the tactical problems are. Sure they are there, just would like them spelt out for me by those who are clear it was a tactical loss as i thought we were beaten by the better side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 I seem to recall Sam saying (upon appointment) to all the fans that there would be tough times in the early stages, but he would always strive to get things right. I guess we'll see next weekend just how long it will be before Ashley and Mort will wield the axe. If they do, then I'll hang my head in despair. Sooner or later we need (as a club) to simply learn the f****** hard lesson of how to build a successful team and not (as fans) pile on ridiculously high expectation. Slow and steady always wins the race. I'm off for another pint of whwisky. whats pissing people off is that we have a squad much better than the performances given. It doesn't help seeing Sven work such amazing magic with his newly formed squad at Man City and them sdoing quite so blisteringly well either. Does kinda undermine any arguments people may try to make about Sam needing time to settle and gel the team... Not really. Sam was left with the daunting task of basically finding a whole new team. Sven had a solid backbone in Dunne and Richards and a lot of his effort could be focused on getting flair into the team. I'm sure in January and next summer, Sam will look for those flair players. ah come on, SGE had richards and dunne to build , then allardyce had owen,martins,butt,n'zogbia,milner,taylor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Richards spent last season at right back so any partnership he's got with Dunne has been built this season. People looking to make excuses for Allardyce when the truth is Sven is simply a better coach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Richards spent last season at right back so any partnership he's got with Dunne has been built this season. People looking to make excuses for Allardyce when the truth is Sven is simply a better coach. He's also got better players imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 I seem to recall Sam saying (upon appointment) to all the fans that there would be tough times in the early stages, but he would always strive to get things right. I guess we'll see next weekend just how long it will be before Ashley and Mort will wield the axe. If they do, then I'll hang my head in despair. Sooner or later we need (as a club) to simply learn the f****** hard lesson of how to build a successful team and not (as fans) pile on ridiculously high expectation. Slow and steady always wins the race. I'm off for another pint of whwisky. whats pissing people off is that we have a squad much better than the performances given. It doesn't help seeing Sven work such amazing magic with his newly formed squad at Man City and them sdoing quite so blisteringly well either. Does kinda undermine any arguments people may try to make about Sam needing time to settle and gel the team... Not really. Sam was left with the daunting task of basically finding a whole new team. Sven had a solid backbone in Dunne and Richards and a lot of his effort could be focused on getting flair into the team. I'm sure in January and next summer, Sam will look for those flair players. ah come on, SGE had richards and dunne to build , then allardyce had owen,martins,butt,n'zogbia,milner,taylor. Yes, but Sam had to focus the majority of his efforts on defence and getting the players in there. The fact that we only just signed Beye and Faye at midnight on deadline day shows that he didn't have time to go scouting the world for flair attacking players. There were areas of more importance to look at, but I'm sure he'll look for flair players in the coming months. do you not think he could be doing better with the squad he's had since 31st august ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Richards spent last season at right back so any partnership he's got with Dunne has been built this season. People looking to make excuses for Allardyce when the truth is Sven is simply a better coach. Who knows? Maybe he is. Maybe he isn't. I know many people 5 months ago would have gone ape-shit had we appointed Sven. It's pure knee jerk because his team is better than ours at the minute. And there are people like myself who suggested we go for him at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Richards spent last season at right back so any partnership he's got with Dunne has been built this season. People looking to make excuses for Allardyce when the truth is Sven is simply a better coach. Hardly an even comparison is it? How many seasons have Dunne and Richards played together? The backline today and in most other games this season has been brand new, in every single respect. Two signings of which were made with minutes to go until the end of the deadline! Agree about Sven being a better manager nevertheless. But if you can't give credit for the work Allardyce has done with the backline, as bad as it was for eleven minutes today, then it'll be difficult for you to credit him for anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Richards spent last season at right back so any partnership he's got with Dunne has been built this season. People looking to make excuses for Allardyce when the truth is Sven is simply a better coach. He's also got better players imo. No he hasn't. Elano, Petrov, Richards, maybe Dunne would get into a best 11 out of the two squads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Richards spent last season at right back so any partnership he's got with Dunne has been built this season. People looking to make excuses for Allardyce when the truth is Sven is simply a better coach. Hardly an even comparison is it? How many seasons have Dunne and Richards played together? The backline today and in most other games this season has been brand new, in every single respect. Two signings of which were made with minutes to go until the end of the deadline! Agree about Sven being a better manager nevertheless. But if you can't give credit for the work Allardyce has done with the backline, as bad as it was for eleven minutes today, then it'll be difficult for you to credit him for anything. He's brought in better defenders because he's had money to spend, when he gets them playing as a unit he'll get credit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Richards spent last season at right back so any partnership he's got with Dunne has been built this season. People looking to make excuses for Allardyce when the truth is Sven is simply a better coach. Hardly an even comparison is it? How many seasons have Dunne and Richards played together? The backline today and in most other games this season has been brand new, in every single respect. Two signings of which were made with minutes to go until the end of the deadline! Agree about Sven being a better manager nevertheless. But if you can't give credit for the work Allardyce has done with the backline, as bad as it was for eleven minutes today, then it'll be difficult for you to credit him for anything. He's brought in better defenders because he's had money to spend, when he gets them playing as a unit he'll get credit. Did you give him credit when the defence played as an excellent unit against Everton, Spurs, Wigan, and West Ham? they weren excllent against west ham or everton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Richards spent last season at right back so any partnership he's got with Dunne has been built this season. People looking to make excuses for Allardyce when the truth is Sven is simply a better coach. Hardly an even comparison is it? How many seasons have Dunne and Richards played together? The backline today and in most other games this season has been brand new, in every single respect. Two signings of which were made with minutes to go until the end of the deadline! Agree about Sven being a better manager nevertheless. But if you can't give credit for the work Allardyce has done with the backline, as bad as it was for eleven minutes today, then it'll be difficult for you to credit him for anything. He's brought in better defenders because he's had money to spend, when he gets them playing as a unit he'll get credit. It's a shame how not everything clicks instantly, isn't it. And for what it's worth, i think that today's game is the only significant cock-up from our defense. Reading was poor, but such goals happen every week. Today was the only time we've been 'shambolic'. And besides, when Rozehnal came on (another new signing, who i'd wager was unknown by 90% of this forum before he was linked), we looked significantly better. We looked solid tbh, they didn't trouble us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Richards spent last season at right back so any partnership he's got with Dunne has been built this season. People looking to make excuses for Allardyce when the truth is Sven is simply a better coach. Hardly an even comparison is it? How many seasons have Dunne and Richards played together? The backline today and in most other games this season has been brand new, in every single respect. Two signings of which were made with minutes to go until the end of the deadline! Agree about Sven being a better manager nevertheless. But if you can't give credit for the work Allardyce has done with the backline, as bad as it was for eleven minutes today, then it'll be difficult for you to credit him for anything. He's brought in better defenders because he's had money to spend, when he gets them playing as a unit he'll get credit. Did you give him credit when the defence played as an excellent unit against Everton, Spurs, Wigan, and West Ham? they weren excllent against west ham or everton Really? How many chances did Everton have in the game? Answer: 1 (yet they managed to score a jammy second goal). Against West Ham there was a 15 minute period where they put us under real pressure, but for the vast majority of the game the defence was solid. in both games there were spells when we defended poorly,against west ham after they scored they looked the most likely winner. dont confuse them not scoring with us defending well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Richards spent last season at right back so any partnership he's got with Dunne has been built this season. People looking to make excuses for Allardyce when the truth is Sven is simply a better coach. Hardly an even comparison is it? How many seasons have Dunne and Richards played together? The backline today and in most other games this season has been brand new, in every single respect. Two signings of which were made with minutes to go until the end of the deadline! Agree about Sven being a better manager nevertheless. But if you can't give credit for the work Allardyce has done with the backline, as bad as it was for eleven minutes today, then it'll be difficult for you to credit him for anything. He's brought in better defenders because he's had money to spend, when he gets them playing as a unit he'll get credit. Did you give him credit when the defence played as an excellent unit against Everton, Spurs, Wigan, and West Ham? Wigan were awful, West Ham put us under pressure and there was nearly a comedy goal when Faye kicked it at Cacapa that nearly went in, we were ball watching for Spurs goal as it came off the post and we were ball watching again when Everton scored their first. The whole defensive unit hasn't been that great at all, in fact I'd say we defended better as a team under Roeder even though we had worse individuals, our problem back then was individual errors because the players were average. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 That'll be a no then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 A quick look back shows we conceded less at this stage of the season last year even though we played both Man Utd and Liverpool on their grounds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Richards spent last season at right back so any partnership he's got with Dunne has been built this season. People looking to make excuses for Allardyce when the truth is Sven is simply a better coach. He's also got better players imo. No he hasn't. Elano, Petrov, Richards, maybe Dunne would get into a best 11 out of the two squads. And Johnson and there is fuck all between the rest. What were these shit tactics today btw, i've asked enough times now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Richards spent last season at right back so any partnership he's got with Dunne has been built this season. People looking to make excuses for Allardyce when the truth is Sven is simply a better coach. He's also got better players imo. No he hasn't. Elano, Petrov, Richards, maybe Dunne would get into a best 11 out of the two squads. And Johnson and there is fuck all between the rest. What were these shit tactics today btw, i've asked enough times now. Asked who? Me? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Richards spent last season at right back so any partnership he's got with Dunne has been built this season. People looking to make excuses for Allardyce when the truth is Sven is simply a better coach. He's also got better players imo. No he hasn't. Elano, Petrov, Richards, maybe Dunne would get into a best 11 out of the two squads. And Johnson and there is fuck all between the rest. What were these shit tactics today btw, i've asked enough times now. Asked who? Me? Were you complaining about the tactics? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Richards spent last season at right back so any partnership he's got with Dunne has been built this season. People looking to make excuses for Allardyce when the truth is Sven is simply a better coach. He's also got better players imo. No he hasn't. Elano, Petrov, Richards, maybe Dunne would get into a best 11 out of the two squads. And Johnson and there is fuck all between the rest. What were these shit tactics today btw, i've asked enough times now. Asked who? Me? Were you complaining about the tactics? You tell me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Richards spent last season at right back so any partnership he's got with Dunne has been built this season. People looking to make excuses for Allardyce when the truth is Sven is simply a better coach. Hardly an even comparison is it? How many seasons have Dunne and Richards played together? The backline today and in most other games this season has been brand new, in every single respect. Two signings of which were made with minutes to go until the end of the deadline! Agree about Sven being a better manager nevertheless. But if you can't give credit for the work Allardyce has done with the backline, as bad as it was for eleven minutes today, then it'll be difficult for you to credit him for anything. He's brought in better defenders because he's had money to spend, when he gets them playing as a unit he'll get credit. Did you give him credit when the defence played as an excellent unit against Everton, Spurs, Wigan, and West Ham? Wigan were awful, West Ham put us under pressure and there was nearly a comedy goal when Faye kicked it at Cacapa that nearly went in, we were ball watching for Spurs goal as it came off the post and we were ball watching again when Everton scored their first. The whole defensive unit hasn't been that great at all, in fact I'd say we defended better as a team under Roeder even though we had worse individuals, our problem back then was individual errors because the players were average. Oh............. So you'll be happy when we stop conceding any goals at all. Against West Ham we dealt with all their pressure. I agree, nearly a comedy goal, but apart from that and their goal nothing of note. There's not a chance in hell that you can say our defence was better last year with a straight face. Do you remember the 5-1 against Brum, the defending of our 4-2 lead in Alkmar, our suicidal defending against Blackburn and Fulham at home, the 1-0 loss to Sheffield Utd, the Man Utd away game when they could and should have had 7, the Arsenal away game when they could have had 5 had it not been for Given, the numerous Bramble mistakes, the numerous Carr mistakes, the numerous Onyewu mistakes, the numerous Moore mistakes. Come on man. Oh right, so even though we're making individual errors that's costing us at home, and the fact that at this stage of the season we've conceded more goals than we had this time last year, I'm supposed to give Allardyce a pat on the back? As I've said, individual errors cost us last season, as a team we defended well, the wingers gave plenty of cover to the fullbacks as did the centre of midfield to the centre backs, no improvement on our defending as a team as far as I've seen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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