What's with CM playing as wingers?

[alpal78]

Not to have another pop at Sam, but really what is a manager looking for when he plays a CM or forward (in the case of Smith) on the wings? It's not just Sam playing Smith and more recently Barton against Sunderland, Souness & Roeder did it with Emre on the LW and even Bobby used to play Bowyer on the RW. None of the afore mentioned players have much pace, much less the ability to whip the ball in, so what do managers expect out of CM when they are played as wingers?

[Andy]

Well, I guess the general idea is to increase protection on the full-backs. And it might actually make sense, you know, if we were playing Barcelona every week and not the likes of Sunderland and Derby.

[toptoon]

Well, I guess the general idea is to increase protection on the full-backs. And it might actually make sense, you know, if we were playing Barcelona every week and not the likes of Sunderland and Derby.

 

Agree with andy and Alpal.

Feel i need to go a bit further though. I fucking hate these tactics i.e. lets cram the midfield to try and nick a draw against Derby, Reading and sunderland etc could half understand it away at Old Trafford ffs but this tactic is the absolute pits. i know he's trying to make us harder to beat but he's actually making us easier to beat by taking the attacking side out of our game and inviting teams to have a go whilst not offering much in th way of attacking back imo + its horrible to watch for us aswell.

 

If playing 442 please play with milner on the RW and zoggy on the LW as its not like they are crap at tracking back (i.e. Ginola, Robert) they are bloody good at tracking back and will offer us so much more on he wings than our central midfielders do.

[Skirge]

They did'nt play as wingers though, thats why we had no width, well not until they scored and Smith pushed forward a bit, thats the main thing with a 4-3-3 you do not have wingers, but really is was more of a 45-1 with Owen and Milner out wide, cannot see Owen wanting to play that role to often. If Sam wants to play that way then drop Owen for Oba.

[ohmelads]

The idea is obviously that wingers are generally players who take more chances and give the ball away more often trying to make things happen, while central midfielders usually have better positional sense, don't showboat so much and are often a bit stronger and better in the tackle. So if you're up against someone like C.Ronaldo I can see the logic in someone like Barton or even Emre being preferred to someone like N'Zogbia because they're more likely to curb their creative instincts and stop the opposite number from playing. In theory.

 

It usually doesn't work though from what I've seen. Bowyer was crap on the right for us, Emre has been crap on the left, Smith was crap on the right and Barton was crap on the right. These players usually can't help but drift infield into the positions they've been taking up for years and where they feel more comfortable and that can leave the full back very exposed. If the opposite full back decides to join the party and overlap his winger, your defender can find himself in trouble against two men. That's why having a balanced team is important, and why players should know their positions well. These basic principles seem to have been ditched by Sam in recent times, where he has dropped the only natural wide players and asked central players to try and do a job there instead. As a result, you have a poor team shape, no balance and consequently no rhythm to your play. You don't string passes together, people drift out of position, and even the poorest teams will find gaps and eventually (in the cases of sunderland and Reading), find the back of the net.

 

Most managers don't do it unless they feel a player is adaptable enough or they're forced to because of injuries. Gerrard played quite a lot of games on the right for Liverpool, but he's very adapable. Essien is another example, he's played just about everywhere. I can see why managers are tempted to do it, but it usually disrupts the balance of the team and leaves you blunt on one side. Central midfielders usually don't have the quick footwork to beat a man and they're forced to turn around and pass it back inside or play the early cross from deeper positions, and that's usually easier to defend against because it's much easier to defend what's going on in front of you.

 

It p*sses me off when managers like Sam try to be clever and do it against teams like Derby and sunderland. You won't catch the top sides coming to St James Park and dropping their flair players, their "matchwinners". I bet Reading fans were very pleased to see they were up against no wingers, I know I'd be happier if Man Utd, Arsenal etc came up here and did that.

[greydos]

The best way to scare an opposition wide player is to put a better wide player on our team out wide, who's going to give the full back such a torrid time their manager is going to be screaming at their wide player to track back and help. having a poor attacking cm out wide says to the opposition full back, mate you're going to have an easy day, you don't have to worry about what's behind you as emre/bowyer/smith/barton's not going to come passed you either with or without the ball, so knock yourself out, why don't you try a few forays forward. what's to stop you?

[Guest optimistic nit]

The best way to scare an opposition wide player is to put a better wide player on our team out wide, who's going to give the full back such a torrid time their manager is going to be screaming at their wide player to track back and help. having a poor attacking cm out wide says to the opposition full back, mate you're going to have an easy day, you don't have to worry about what's behind you as emre/bowyer/smith/barton's not going to come passed you either with or without the ball, so knock yourself out, why don't you try a few forays forward. what's to stop you?

 

that makes a lot of sense. unless the opposition has a winger like robert who'll see hiss fullback on the floor dying of exhaustion before he steps into his own half.

[ohmelads]

The best way to scare an opposition wide player is to put a better wide player on our team out wide, who's going to give the full back such a torrid time their manager is going to be screaming at their wide player to track back and help. having a poor attacking cm out wide says to the opposition full back, mate you're going to have an easy day, you don't have to worry about what's behind you as emre/bowyer/smith/barton's not going to come passed you either with or without the ball, so knock yourself out, why don't you try a few forays forward. what's to stop you?

 

It does invite the full back forward, definitely. I remember when we played Spurs last season and Emre was wide left, 'protecting' Huntington. Emre unsurprisingly drifted inside, Chimbonda saw his chance and roamed forward. Hunty was left up against a winger and a full back all on his own time and time again. We got away with it that day because Spurs were so crap in the final third.

[TRon]

The idea is obviously that wingers are generally players who take more chances and give the ball away more often trying to make things happen, while central midfielders usually have better positional sense, don't showboat so much and are often a bit stronger and better in the tackle. So if you're up against someone like C.Ronaldo I can see the logic in someone like Barton or even Emre being preferred to someone like N'Zogbia because they're more likely to curb their creative instincts and stop the opposite number from playing. In theory.

 

It usually doesn't work though from what I've seen. Bowyer was crap on the right for us, Emre has been crap on the left, Smith was crap on the right and Barton was crap on the right. These players usually can't help but drift infield into the positions they've been taking up for years and where they feel more comfortable and that can leave the full back very exposed. If the opposite full back decides to join the party and overlap his winger, your defender can find himself in trouble against two men. That's why having a balanced team is important, and why players should know their positions well. These basic principles seem to have been ditched by Sam in recent times, where he has dropped the only natural wide players and asked central players to try and do a job there instead. As a result, you have a poor team shape, no balance and consequently no rhythm to your play. You don't string passes together, people drift out of position, and even the poorest teams will find gaps and eventually (in the cases of sunderland and Reading), find the back of the net.

 

Most managers don't do it unless they feel a player is adaptable enough or they're forced to because of injuries. Gerrard played quite a lot of games on the right for Liverpool, but he's very adapable. Essien is another example, he's played just about everywhere. I can see why managers are tempted to do it, but it usually disrupts the balance of the team and leaves you blunt on one side. Central midfielders usually don't have the quick footwork to beat a man and they're forced to turn around and pass it back inside or play the early cross from deeper positions, and that's usually easier to defend against because it's much easier to defend what's going on in front of you.

 

It p*sses me off when managers like Sam try to be clever and do it against teams like Derby and sunderland. You won't catch the top sides coming to St James Park and dropping their flair players, their "matchwinners". I bet Reading fans were very pleased to see they were up against no wingers, I know I'd be happier if Man Utd, Arsenal etc came up here and did that.

 

Every word rings true. You mentioned Emre, I'd rather see Robbie Elliott playing left wing than Emre. Emre's a much better footballer, but he hasn't got the athleticism required to play wide. I'd love to see the charts Allardyce is studying to come to the conclusion it's a good idea to play him on the left.

[Incognito]

Especially with wingers playing full back as well,the next stage would be to see Babayaro playing CM.

[Mick]

Especially with wingers playing full back as well,the next stage would be to see Babayaro playing CM.

 

The next stage would just be to see Babayaro play, I'm not sure I'd recognise him these days.

[Guest teepee]

i also dont get it against teams like sunderland - maybe use geremi etc. against arsenal and man u - but not against crap teams

 

in my min out team actually pretty much picks it self. we only have one right winger, one left winger, one left back and one right back that i'd want to see start - and none of these started in their rightful position against sunderland.

 

i still support sam fully, but this seems a bit odd

[madras]

it's not always a bad idea providing there is width on the other flank.