Guest teepee Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 didn't it take SAF about seven years to make manure champions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SLK Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 didn't it take SAF about seven years to make manure champions? Wasn't it like 4 or 5 years and he was almost running out of time ? Not %100 sure though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 didn't it take SAF about seven years to make manure champions? yes or there abouts. mind you if he'd played giggs at full back and bryan robson wide right and mark hughes in the centre of midfield i doubt he'd have made the 4 or 5 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toptoon Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Mr Ashley seems to be growing ever more passionate about his adopted football club, and he's on record saying that he wants to enjoy his hard earned, hopefully that will translate into him spending a sizeable chunk of his £2 billion trying to get us into the top four. If that's the case, would you trust Sam Allardyce to spend your money if you were in Mike Ashley's shoes? I'm starting to have serious doubts. I was pleased with Sam's wheeling and dealing during the summer but Sam's obsession with keeping a clean sheet is beginning to worry me. We have better players than Derby, Reading and, especially, the Mackems but Sam set his team up not to concede instead of telling the players that they are better than the opposition, and to go out and play in a structured offensive way. I'm starting to doubt if he's capable of changing his footballing philosophy regardless of the quality of player at his disposal. Mike Ashley's obviously no mug and, if he is considering investing a sizeable amount of cash in an attempt to break into the top 4, he must also be doubting Sam's ability to lead us there. Good post!! Yes i trust him with the money if nothing else. He spends it wisely imo and did well in the summer. He deserves longer, hopefully he will bring in some class attacking talent next. Although it is early days yet, as mentioned by you its his tactics that i don't trust at the moment. They are appalling!! i.e. Derby, Reading and sunderland etc. Setting us up without wingers etc reminds me so much of Soumess its scary!!! I just pray he hasn't the ego of Souness and realises whats wrong, as if he carries on this way he's doomed for sure. We can't go to s*** teams and just try and defend and hope to nick something. As you quite rightly say he needs to "go out and play in a structured offensive way"! We have Liverpool Blackburn and arsenal next and i fear the worst. If Derby, reading and Sunderland can out play us then these teams could do exactly what pompey did to us or even worse!! But when it comes to buying players his track record is very very good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nufc 4 life Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 It's worrying that 27% of our fans already deem him to be not 'the man'. And all this after only 12 games. Have some faith! our fans? are you saying that the people that voted on that poll are the equivelant of our enitre worldide fanbase? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 It's worrying that 27% of our fans already deem him to be not 'the man'. And all this after only 12 games. Have some faith! our fans? are you saying that the people that voted on that poll are the equivelant of our enitre worldide fanbase? It's not even that small of a sample size; more than 50 people have answered so you can actually generalize this data to the whole population because it would be normally distributed now. So yes, what I said still stands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 didn't it take SAF about seven years to make manure champions? yes or there abouts. mind you if he'd played giggs at full back and bryan robson wide right and mark hughes in the centre of midfield i doubt he'd have made the 4 or 5 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 It's worrying that 27% of our fans already deem him to be not 'the man'. And all this after only 12 games. Have some faith! our fans? are you saying that the people that voted on that poll are the equivelant of our enitre worldide fanbase? It's not even that small of a sample size; more than 50 people have answered so you can actually generalize this data to the whole population because it would be normally distributed now. So yes, what I said still stands. There's over 1 million Toon fans in the UK alone so I'd say 50 people on a message board is less than representative. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 It is representative to a point though, isn't it? Obviously there will be a margin of error, but if I'm thinking about the right model, this data is statistically significant. That was my point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 It is representative to a point though, isn't it? Obviously there will be a margin of error, but if I'm thinking about the right model, this data is statistically significant. That was my point. I know, I was disagreeing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 No, clearly he is not the man. Look at his signings, they've not been great by any stretch of the imagination. But there will still be the fans who cling to the belief that because he is employed by Newcastle United (as with a number of our first team players) that he is somehow good enough, and that glory is only a bit of luck away. Its all very well saying "have some faith", and yes, he's better than Roeder (liek being stabbed is better than being shot), but there is little point in having faith in something that is not going to work - showing blind faith does not make you a better fan, it just makes you less realistic. Are the players he had or has brought in top class ? No. One or two have top class attributes but none of our players are complete players, they either lack pace, brains or technique. Could he have attracted better players? Maybe, but its not likely since as you pointed out so much last season, we were utter shite. If the faithful think we're shite, why would a top class professional not think the same thing? There are lots of reasons players targetted by the manager didnt come here, players that would have improved this squad. Does he have a track record of getting average sides to perform? Yes. In which case, given the assessment of the players, how come he isnt the right man? You cant have it both ways, if the players are as shite as you say they are, stop expecting miracles. I agree our players arent good enough and i'm realistic about who we can attract. You do need to follow that to the only logical conclusion that a manager with a good track record in getting the best out of only half-decent / average players needs at least a bit of time to implement what has clearly been successful before. We didnt exactly flex any financial muscles over the summer. If we do spend big and things dont look that different after that, then i will be inclined to agree with you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniffer Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 We won't win anything with Fat Sam in charge. We'll tread water for this season and the Ashley will make a decision whether to give him one more or pull the plug. If he keeps up with these shambolic displays then I hope Ashley says enough is enough and we can get somebody in who pays attention to performances on the pitch...... rather than how many video monitors he can sqeeze behind and what a players rectal temperature is after a match. I'm not sure I'd trust him with 25 million plus of my money. I fact, we might even get sucked into a relegation struggle this season for that third spot based on the shite we are churning out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Novocastrian Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Allardyce better hope something clicks into place pretty soon because if it does it will be more down to luck than judgment. The standard of football this season has been dire. I'm looking beyond the results and the opposition and looking at the performances of the team. Even when we have won it's been pretty uninspiring, turgid fare. You can get the run of the green and win a few games playing shite football but long term you will be found out. I would be prepared to give Allardyce time if I could see even the tiniest glimpse of improvement over the last two chumps or something that perhaps we could build on. I've seen absolutely nothing yet and this is with a team often comprising of 6/7 of "his" players. To me this a case of the emperor's new clothes, he is getting cut a lot of slack because he is supposedly a progressive manager who employs innovative training methods and fitness techniques. I'll give him to Christmas and if there is no improvement I seriously doubt he has what it takes to take this club forward. If that is the case why bother wasting millions on him constructing a functional, one dimensional team in the image of his Bolton teams. At the moment I can't see much difference between Souness, Roeder and Allardyce. If you disagree consider the last game before Souness took over when we played Blackburn and turned them over at St James' 3-0. Look how far we have fallen since then, look at our recent shots ratio and our failure to even string together half a dozen passes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 We won't win anything with Fat Sam in charge. We'll tread water for this season and the Ashley will make a decision whether to give him one more or pull the plug. If he keeps up with these shambolic displays then I hope Ashley says enough is enough and we can get somebody in who pays attention to performances on the pitch...... rather than how many video monitors he can sqeeze behind and what a players rectal temperature is after a match. I'm not sure I'd trust him with 25 million plus of my money. I fact, we might even get sucked into a relegation struggle this season for that third spot based on the shite we are churning out. That's hysteria creeping in sniffs my son. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillyRay Valentine Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 as novocastrian points out, it pains me that we seem to be showing no real progress whatsoever. i understand BS's desire for the clean sheet first and foremost, as without a half decent defence nothing tangible can hope to be achieved no matter what riches we might have going forward (Keegan showed as that in glorious technicolor). BUT we're still hopelessly inept when put under pressure and more worryingly are frighteningly sh*t at passing the ball. having said that, BS deserves a season to show us what he can do, with full backing in the jan window, but if we're still showing the same absence of progression come may then he has to be moved along. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniffer Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Really, parky? Based on what I see on the pitch, there's not one team I'd feel confident we can beat on the road having already lost to Derby. And I'm struggling to come up with more than three teams that I absolutely know we'll beat at SJP. I think every team in the league will fancy their chances against us if they bring the game to us and not just look for a point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 didn't it take SAF about seven years to make manure champions? Wasn't it like 4 or 5 years and he was almost running out of time ? Not %100 sure though... Was it not 12 games? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Really, parky? Based on what I see on the pitch, there's not one team I'd feel confident we can beat on the road having already lost to Derby. And I'm struggling to come up with more than three teams that I absolutely know we'll beat at SJP. I think every team in the league will fancy their chances against us if they bring the game to us and not just look for a point. Football isn't like that tho. I agree with most of what you're saying btw, but you're being a little over negative. Pompey and Everton both went through long rough patches in the last couple of years but the managers knew they could rely on the continued support of all at the club and kept in mind their vision and ideas for bettering the side. It won't happen overnight and yes SA has made mistakes and has every right to be lashed for them..I've had a proper go at him writing for the site but I also am aware what he's up against. The nature of the PL has changed and overall the top 10 as a whole are of a much higher quality than even 3/4 years ago..There are 4 CL level sides followed by another 6 sides pushing for that level now inc Pompey and Man City along with the others that we both are aware of. Reading held Arenal yesterday for 1/2 hr with ease and only really started losing their shape in the second half, so you can see even the likes of relegation fodder (supposedly) aren't pushovers. In this context what hurt was the Derby result and the nonsense Sam talked about getting a point being good enough...This is the kind of thing where he will realise he has misjudged the club. He also needs to understand that football is about getting goals rather than not letting them in, this is Newcastle and not Bolton or Everton. I'll be honest looking at the next three games the relegation zone (or just above it) did cross my mind and we could easily end up 14th or 15th after three loses and things will look grim, but football isn't an exact science and there are no miracle cures (well there are buy top class players) for our situation at the moment. We need to stick by the manager who imo is much much better than the last two and do our best to keep the pressure off him. But, we do need to get a couple of quality players for the midfield in Jan or we could be tempting fate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniffer Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 How can you stick by a manager who is happy....actually very happy....with a point at Sunderland? Or played for a draw against a team that had conceded 22 goals? Or was shitting in his pants at the thought of playing reading, FFS. When he talks shite do you just nod your head and believe it? He's actually telling you not to believe what you are seeing on the pitch but to believe what he is saying. What does that say about Fat Sam's opinion of the Newcastle supporters? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 How can you stick by a manager who is happy....actually very happy....with a point at Sunderland? Or played for a draw against a team that had conceded 22 goals? Or was shitting in his pants at the thought of playing reading, FFS. When he talks shite do you just nod your head and believe it? He's actually telling you not to believe what you are seeing on the pitch but to believe what he is saying. What does that say about Fat Sam's opinion of the Newcastle supporters? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 How can you stick by a manager who is happy....actually very happy....with a point at Sunderland? Or played for a draw against a team that had conceded 22 goals? Or was shitting in his pants at the thought of playing reading, FFS. When he talks shite do you just nod your head and believe it? He's actually telling you not to believe what you are seeing on the pitch but to believe what he is saying. What does that say about Fat Sam's opinion of the Newcastle supporters? I agree the comments and the way he set up the side for a few of those games was ludicrous. On the other hand he is under immense pressure and I'm totally sure he underestimated the nature of the task here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmymag Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 If Ashley is prepared to punt £100 million on players to try to get us into the Champions League, is Sam capable of changing his footballing philosophy in order to get the best out of the better quality players that that money would buy??? Ferguson, Wenger and now Grant have shown that offensive football is more successful than defensive football if you have the resources to buy the best players. I have serious doubts that Sam will ever be anything other than a percentage manager able to get the best out of second rate players, as long as he's given time to mould the team in his image. He did say recently that his team on the pitch is an extension of his own personality, I'd characterize Sam as professional, functional and dour and I can't see him changing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 No, clearly he is not the man. Look at his signings, they've not been great by any stretch of the imagination. But there will still be the fans who cling to the belief that because he is employed by Newcastle United (as with a number of our first team players) that he is somehow good enough, and that glory is only a bit of luck away. Its all very well saying "have some faith", and yes, he's better than Roeder (liek being stabbed is better than being shot), but there is little point in having faith in something that is not going to work - showing blind faith does not make you a better fan, it just makes you less realistic. Are the players he had or has brought in top class ? No. One or two have top class attributes but none of our players are complete players, they either lack pace, brains or technique. Could he have attracted better players? Maybe, but its not likely since as you pointed out so much last season, we were utter shite. If the faithful think we're shite, why would a top class professional not think the same thing? There are lots of reasons players targetted by the manager didnt come here, players that would have improved this squad. Does he have a track record of getting average sides to perform? Yes. In which case, given the assessment of the players, how come he isnt the right man? You cant have it both ways, if the players are as shite as you say they are, stop expecting miracles. I agree our players arent good enough and i'm realistic about who we can attract. You do need to follow that to the only logical conclusion that a manager with a good track record in getting the best out of only half-decent / average players needs at least a bit of time to implement what has clearly been successful before. We didnt exactly flex any financial muscles over the summer. If we do spend big and things dont look that different after that, then i will be inclined to agree with you. Good post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 If Ashley is prepared to punt £100 million on players to try to get us into the Champions League, is Sam capable of changing his footballing philosophy in order to get the best out of the better quality players that that money would buy??? Ferguson, Wenger and now Grant have shown that offensive football is more successful than defensive football if you have the resources to buy the best players. I have serious doubts that Sam will ever be anything other than a percentage manager able to get the best out of second rate players, as long as he's given time to mould the team in his image. He did say recently that his team on the pitch is an extension of his own personality, I'd characterize Sam as professional, functional and dour and I can't see him changing. Defensive football won Chelsea plenty of trophies under Mourinho, it also got Liverpool in to 2 Champions League finals in 3 years, Grant hasn't won anything yet. As for having £100 million to spend, that isn't much good if you can't attract top quality players and after a few shit seasons I don't think we are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maze Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Yes, Sam is the man. Stop doubting that, please. 12 Games... and didn't SAF just celebrate his 21. year in man utd? Some of you are so impatient... it's unbelievable.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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