If not Sam, who then?

[Zero]

I do think it's pretty risky to assume that Ashley will allow the new manager to spend 50m. It's not a guaranteed fund, Ashley may just allow like 10-20m each year.

 

Van Gaal simply cannot succeed in EPL, definitely, unless the whole team is made of non-british players. British players simply don't have the tactical sense required to carried out Van Gaal's tactics.

[Guest The Libertine]

No one.

 

decent point. the often used phrase is "no one can manage newcastle and be successful"

 

worth a try if sam fucks it up

[Guest Dev]

I do think it's pretty risky to assume that Ashley will allow the new manager to spend 50m. It's not a guaranteed fund, Ashley may just allow like 10-20m each year.

 

Van Gaal simply cannot succeed in EPL, definitely, unless the whole team is made of non-british players. British players simply don't have the tactical sense required to carried out Van Gaal's tactics.

 

If we have to lose Milner and Smith out of our starting lineup then I guess we'll just have to manage (somehow)

[Mr Logic]

Watching football has to be entertaining or I won't watch it, simple as. Big Sam's team is currently serving up dross the vast majority of the time, and I personally don't have the patience to watch that for 2 more years to see if it gets a bit better.

 

If we are going to have to wait 2 to 3 years before the team and system are complete, (and we are, for if there's one thing that's established it's that no manager ever produced a succesful team in 6 months), I'd rather watch something like Mowbray's brand of football whilst I'm waiting. Just as I enjoyed watching Keegan's brand of football.

 

We have conceded a ridiculous amount of goals this season, something an attacking team is actually far less likey to do as the other team are often kept busy defending. Also a factor with Keegan's team, who conceded far fewer goals than most people seem to think due to the oft quoted media perception of Newcastle's poor defence over the years.

 

I'm not, god forbid, arguing for a 'Return of the Messiah' scenario, but pointing out what I feel most would prefer. To watch attacking football. I was reading the Newcastle Miscellany just yesterday and was surprised to see the goal tally column for a league table from 1926/27 where the team that had finished bottom had managed to score 65 goals; that's more than some top 3 teams get in a season these days.

 

The all time Premiership table lists Man Utd as top, scoring 1140 goals compared to 516 conceded. Again it rather points to the brand of football known as attacking to be rather succesful on the whole.

 

So yeah, I'll throw my hat in the ring for Mowbray too.

 

 

[Guest Knightrider]

HTT your completely up Allardyce's arse and have been since day one, and any manager any one suggests your going to just pick faults with and reject as inferior. So suggesting any other manager for this thread becomes completely pointless.

 

Pretty much summed up what I was just about to post. HTT was the fella who was telling us how brilliant Allardyce is and how great we are going to be when he was linked/took over in his numerous mega posts he likes to make.

 

 

Wrong, I was obviously delighted with his appointment and it showed in my posts but guess where I had us down as finishing at the start of the season? Mid-table! While others had us anywhere from top 4 to mid-table. Hardly the reaction you're referring to, eh? I've said since day one it is going to be a long hard slog to turn this club around and that the manager needs time and money as well as good fortune and that goes for anyone whether it be Big Sam or another manager.

[Scottish Mag]

The all time Premiership table lists Man Utd as top, scoring 1140 goals compared to 516 conceded. Again it rather points to the brand of football known as attacking to be rather succesful on the whole.

 

Teams who score more goals than they concede win matches.  Who would have thought it? 

[Guest Knightrider]

Big Sam took Bolton to 6th from the bottom of the table on a net spend of practically nothing...

 

That is because he signed mainly players past there best or players nobody wanted so didn't have to pay much in fee's but wages at Bolton were running at £42 million.

 

Do you have proof that their wages were running at £42m? I mean, they don't even make that a year do they?

 

Have this for now http://forum.football.co.uk/about420.html  Gartside mouthing off in 2005 about paying big wages. I will be back as soon as find the article I was reading earlier.

 

 

Sorry but that's not proof and he does say they can afford to pay a reasonable wage which indicates Bolton could afford it and therefore them paying footballers thousands of pounds a week is err, no different to any other club.

 

Anyway I thought that's how a club signs good players, by offering them good wages. Bet most of our lot are on more money.

 

Well I knew that wasnt proof, that was just a filler to keep you at bay man . http://www.bwfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/General/0,,1004~1166190,00.html

 

As for the above it is not the point I was making, I was referring to your remark about Sam & his net transfer spend at Bolton, because I remember Gartside being on TV when fans were on his back about lack of spending & he said at Bolton wages are part of the the transfer budget. A lot of the players he signed at Bolton were  past there peak & had little or no fee but they could still could do a good job for a few years.  I like Fergie but I reckon he would have one of the highest negative net spends in the world of football for his time at Man Utd.  I dont think using simple mathematics as net spend is a good indicator that is my point. Happy Christmas

 

 

 

 

Ta for the link, that's actually impressive figures for Bolton to be generating. So OK the wages were high but no more so than at most clubs. The point still stands though, he managed Bolton on a net budget of next to nothing which is no mean feat in this day and age. And Merry Xmas to you too

[Mr Logic]

The all time Premiership table lists Man Utd as top, scoring 1140 goals compared to 516 conceded. Again it rather points to the brand of football known as attacking to be rather succesful on the whole.

 

Teams who score more goals than they concede win matches.  Who would have thought it? 

 

It was the manner in which they win them that my post alluded to, but you knew that, didn't you.

[Guest Knightrider]

What IS true, is that the Club and its supporters, deserve the best that can be obtained, both in the manager's office and on the field.

 

I agree fully, and I think given the circumstances and current climate, that's what we have. Big Sam was the best man for the job when he took over, the right candidate. Is he still that man? Well I can't see much that has changed in that time in a footballing sense. We are still a mid-table club with lots of problems on and off the pitch. Of course we now have a new owner and a new Chairman so things have changed in that sense, but could they bring in a better manager than the one we have and could that man take us where we want to be quicker and in a much more entertaining way? I seriously doubt it because no such manager exists. Yes there are better managers out there than Big Sam but would they come to us and wouldn't things just get more complicated with a high calibre manager at the helm? Furthermore wouldn't they too need lots of time and money? Of course. No, I see no reason to sack Allardyce but plenty to give him time and money.

[Zero]

I love the equation: Large fan base + 50m = Mourinho

[Guest Sniffer]

Thank Christ you aren't in charge then HTT. Based on what we've seen on the pitch, Fat Sam has absolutely no idea how to organise this team. While I want an effective scouting system and a complete chart of players rectal temperatures before and after games as much as the next man, Sam has to realize that these are secondary to the immediate needs which is signs of improvement on the field. So far this season, he's got most of it wrong tactically and it seems to me that he's taken average to good players and succeeded in making them worse. Certainly Barton, even though he's only had a handful of games, looks nothing like the player he was at City. Player selection is baffling to everybody. If Enrique is good enough to be on the bench, then surely he is good enough to play against the likes of Derby releasing N'Zogbia forward? Martin's is shite wide right so what's the point of selecting him there?"

 

You can defend Sam all you like HTT, but you aren't making much sense based on what we are all seeing in every game. A total shambles and that's down to Allardyce.

[tmonkey]

I agree fully, and I think given the circumstances and current climate, that's what we have. Big Sam was the best man for the job when he took over, the right candidate. Is he still that man? Well I can't see much that has changed in that time in a footballing sense. We are still a mid-table club with lots of problems on and off the pitch. Of course we now have a new owner and a new Chairman so things have changed in that sense, but could they bring in a better manager than the one we have and could that man take us where we want to be quicker and in a much more entertaining way? I seriously doubt it because no such manager exists. Yes there are better managers out there than Big Sam but would they come to us and wouldn't things just get more complicated with a high calibre manager at the helm? Furthermore wouldn't they too need lots of time and money? Of course. No, I see no reason to sack Allardyce but plenty to give him time and money.

 

Just because we fans cant come up with a perfect tailor made suggestion doesnt mean its not out there. Had you heard of Wenger before he became Arsenal's boss? Had you heard of or seen Pato, AC Milan's 15mill teenage forward from Brazil? What about Bernd Schuster, Capello's replacement at Madrid - im pretty sure very few of us on here had any idea who he was, yet hes stepped up to a mammoth club and has them playing good, attacking football. Football is far bigger than England + top CL sides + big international tournaments, and realistically thats what most of our fans' knowledge base will be limited to. It doesnt mean anything if we as fans cant put forward a good name - the expectation is that the board should have far more scope in its footballing knowledge.

 

Youve pointed out the very reason why itd be worth sacking Big Sam - time and money. At the end of this season, he'll still need as much time and money as a better manager would need to turn things around. If at the end of this season Big Sam needs 3 more seasons and £60mill more to spend, then why stick with him if hes clearly not the tactical mastermind we were led to believe he is, and he'll be having us playing ugly, long ball football with dogfighting/defensive tactics - why give time and money to that when the young equivalent of Wenger, or someone far more experienced and successful than Allardyce, managing somewhere out in France, Portugal, Japan, wherever, could be given that same time span and same funding, but would be much more likely to succeed given that the brand of football would actually wash with the supporters, which is not a small thing to be overlooked.

[Guest Knightrider]

Thank Christ you aren't in charge then HTT. Based on what we've seen on the pitch, Fat Sam has absolutely no idea how to organise this team. While I want an effective scouting system and a complete chart of players rectal temperatures before and after games as much as the next man, Sam has to realize that these are secondary to the immediate needs which is signs of improvement on the field. So far this season, he's got most of it wrong tactically and it seems to me that he's taken average to good players and succeeded in making them worse. Certainly Barton, even though he's only had a handful of games, looks nothing like the player he was at City. Player selection is baffling to everybody. If Enrique is good enough to be on the bench, then surely he is good enough to play against the likes of Derby releasing N'Zogbia forward? Martin's is shite wide right so what's the point of selecting him there?"

 

You can defend Sam all you like HTT, but you aren't making much sense based on what we are all seeing in every game. A total shambles and that's down to Allardyce.

 

A total shambles?

 

A total shambles is going from 5th to 13th and spending 40 odd million to stay in the same position.

 

I.e. the club Big Sam took over. And people expect that shambles to be where at this point?

 

Have a fucking word man.

 

I'm not defending the manager either, I'm being realistic here.

 

Who would you like to see in charge btw?

[Guest pistonism]

The one-and-only Alan Shearer

[Guest Knightrider]

I agree fully, and I think given the circumstances and current climate, that's what we have. Big Sam was the best man for the job when he took over, the right candidate. Is he still that man? Well I can't see much that has changed in that time in a footballing sense. We are still a mid-table club with lots of problems on and off the pitch. Of course we now have a new owner and a new Chairman so things have changed in that sense, but could they bring in a better manager than the one we have and could that man take us where we want to be quicker and in a much more entertaining way? I seriously doubt it because no such manager exists. Yes there are better managers out there than Big Sam but would they come to us and wouldn't things just get more complicated with a high calibre manager at the helm? Furthermore wouldn't they too need lots of time and money? Of course. No, I see no reason to sack Allardyce but plenty to give him time and money.

 

Just because we fans cant come up with a perfect tailor made suggestion doesnt mean its not out there. Had you heard of Wenger before he became Arsenal's boss? Had you heard of or seen Pato, AC Milan's 15mill teenage forward from Brazil? What about Bernd Schuster, Capello's replacement at Madrid - im pretty sure very few of us on here had any idea who he was, yet hes stepped up to a mammoth club and has them playing good, attacking football. Football is far bigger than England + top CL sides + big international tournaments, and realistically thats what most of our fans' knowledge base will be limited to. It doesnt mean anything if we as fans cant put forward a good name - the expectation is that the board should have far more scope in its footballing knowledge.

 

Youve pointed out the very reason why itd be worth sacking Big Sam - time and money. At the end of this season, he'll still need as much time and money as a better manager would need to turn things around. If at the end of this season Big Sam needs 3 more seasons and £60mill more to spend, then why stick with him if hes clearly not the tactical mastermind we were led to believe he is, and he'll be having us playing ugly, long ball football with dogfighting/defensive tactics - why give time and money to that when the young equivalent of Wenger, or someone far more experienced and successful than Allardyce, managing somewhere out in France, Portugal, Japan, wherever, could be given that same time span and same funding, but would be much more likely to succeed given that the brand of football would actually wash with the supporters, which is not a small thing to be overlooked.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, that right man will be out there somewhere, but does where we are at this stage justify sacking the current manager in the remote off-chance of finding that man? No. Would sacking Big Sam guarantee a change in fortunes? No. Would a new man need lots of time and money? Yes.

 

I see no reason or logic in getting rid of the current manager at this stage whatsoever and I'm aghast at some of the names fans genuinly put forward as alternatives. And yes I do feel it matters who fans put forward because it gives you a clear picture of their mentality which I don't know about you but is fucking frightening.

 

You mention Wenger but he's the exception to the rule and anyway, you and I both know damned well that if we were to appoint a Wenger, i.e. someone from nowhere we've never heard, fans wouldn't give him 5 minutes and at the first sign of trouble they'd be on his back just like they are now with our established manager.

 

You also mention Cappello. Now imagine we appointed a top manager. Again you and I know expectation levels would go through the roof. They are already high, imagine what they'd be like if we appointed a European Cup winner or someone of real high class. And what would happen if things weren't going well? They'd be on his back too but probably even more due to the expectations and the name of the manager.

 

In short, no-one can win here. It isn't just about breaking that thread of failure at Newcastle or that culture of shipping in goals, it's about breaking the fans too because as far as I'm concerned it's all linked.

 

This is how tough it is for a manager at Newcastle.

 

He must:

 

Play the right team every week.

 

Play players in their correct positions at all times.

 

Always go for a win whoever we are playing, home or away.

 

Always stick to 4-4-2.

 

Always play exciting attacking football.

 

Deliver success and as quickly as possible.

 

Never sign average players.

 

In short another Kevin Keegan.

 

It's an impossible job man and the better the manager, the tougher it only becomes.

 

Pardon me for believing there is no-one out there for us at this moment in time, not until fans lose the chip on their shoulders and gain some fucking humility and understanding anyway.

 

We are our own worst enemy. 

[Thorpinho]

HTT your completely up Allardyce's arse and have been since day one, and any manager any one suggests your going to just pick faults with and reject as inferior. So suggesting any other manager for this thread becomes completely pointless.

 

Pretty much summed up what I was just about to post. HTT was the fella who was telling us how brilliant Allardyce is and how great we are going to be when he was linked/took over in his numerous mega posts he likes to make.

 

 

Wrong, I was obviously delighted with his appointment and it showed in my posts but guess where I had us down as finishing at the start of the season? Mid-table! While others had us anywhere from top 4 to mid-table. Hardly the reaction you're referring to, eh? I've said since day one it is going to be a long hard slog to turn this club around and that the manager needs time and money as well as good fortune and that goes for anyone whether it be Big Sam or another manager.

 

Actually HTT im not wrong, the "reaction i was referring to" was your dismissal of every other manager put forward, making the question of if not allardyce then who totally pointless here. Its got nothing to do with where you said we would finish. When he first came in you could barely go a day without some mega post about his training methods, how amazing it was the way he dealt with some small situation and how he was the man to take us forward. Since we have gone to shit your mega posts about him have kinda dried up.

 

I would love allardyce to succeed, but until he proves he can do it do us a favour and stop the rubbish like this thread of dismissing every other manager put forward when compared to the glorious big sam!

[Delima]

Jol? Two top 5 finishes having spent a s*** load of money, choked it in important matches, both league and cup competitions. Sacked at Spurs for losing 7 in first 10 games or something. So let me get this right, you'd go to the great lengths of sacking Big Sam who has us a few points off 6th for Jol to get us into the top 6? He would need time and money... lots of it.

 

I'll stick with Big Sam.

 

 

Where were Spurs before Jol went in there? And he got them from mid-table to the verge of 4th with a "net-spend" of just over £7m.

 

 

Your calculation, hence your opinion of Jol, is wrong.

 

http://biawc.110mb.com/

[Guest Dev]

On the basis of recent efforts by the team, I'm rescinding my recommendation of van Gaal and putting forward the case of my Granny, who despite her advancing years could probably put forward a more canny team than the ones being shoved out by Allardyce at the moment by consulting with Doris next door and selecting a team and tactics based on last Tuesdays bingo numbers.

[Delima]

I agree wholeheartedly, that right man will be out there somewhere, but does where we are at this stage justify sacking the current manager in the remote off-chance of finding that man? No. Would sacking Big Sam guarantee a change in fortunes? No. Would a new man need lots of time and money? Yes.

 

I see no reason or logic in getting rid of the current manager at this stage whatsoever and I'm aghast at some of the names fans genuinly put forward as alternatives. And yes I do feel it matters who fans put forward because it gives you a clear picture of their mentality which I don't know about you but is f****** frightening.

 

You mention Wenger but he's the exception to the rule and anyway, you and I both know damned well that if we were to appoint a Wenger, i.e. someone from nowhere we've never heard, fans wouldn't give him 5 minutes and at the first sign of trouble they'd be on his back just like they are now with our established manager.

 

You also mention Cappello. Now imagine we appointed a top manager. Again you and I know expectation levels would go through the roof. They are already high, imagine what they'd be like if we appointed a European Cup winner or someone of real high class. And what would happen if things weren't going well? They'd be on his back too but probably even more due to the expectations and the name of the manager.

 

In short, no-one can win here. It isn't just about breaking that thread of failure at Newcastle or that culture of shipping in goals, it's about breaking the fans too because as far as I'm concerned it's all linked.

 

This is how tough it is for a manager at Newcastle.

 

He must:

 

Play the right team every week.

 

Play players in their correct positions at all times.

 

Always go for a win whoever we are playing, home or away.

 

Always stick to 4-4-2.

 

Always play exciting attacking football.

 

Deliver success and as quickly as possible.

 

Never sign average players.

 

In short another Kevin Keegan.

 

It's an impossible job man and the better the manager, the tougher it only becomes.

 

Pardon me for believing there is no-one out there for us at this moment in time, not until fans lose the chip on their shoulders and gain some f****** humility and understanding anyway.

 

We are our own worst enemy. 

 

Good post HTT.

 

I still want Allardyce be in charge for a few seasons.

[Guest]

Absolutely f*cking disgraceful. I'm now for the first time in the "get someone else in" camp. Can people honestly see us in the top 6-8 in 3-4 years time on a regular basis under Allardyce?

[Guest Knightrider]

Absolutely f*cking disgraceful. I'm now for the first time in the "get someone else in" camp. Can people honestly see us in the top 6-8 in 3-4 years time on a regular basis under Allardyce?

 

I can.

[Guest]

Expand. What does Allardyce bring to the table that Moyes, O'Neill, Redknapp & Hughes don't offer to their respective clubs?

[Guest Knightrider]

Expand. What does Allardyce bring to the table that Moyes, O'Neill, Redknapp & Hughes don't offer to their respective clubs?

 

What have Moyes, O'Neill, Redknapp and Hughes all got in common? They've all had TIME!

 

I've already posted all their respective records, make of it what you will.

[colinmk]

I think Sam deserves at least a season but you have to question what he has done so far this season in terms of the use of the squad. I don't doubt what he is doing behind the scenes but he seems either stubborn or stupid when dealing with tactics and the use of players.

[madras]

Expand. What does Allardyce bring to the table that Moyes, O'Neill, Redknapp & Hughes don't offer to their respective clubs?

.

 

What have Moyes, O'Neill, Redknapp and Hughes all got in common? They've all had TIME!

 

I've already posted all their respective records, make of it what you will.

neither of those managers woyuld send teams to wigan,derby,sunderland,boro or fulham with the intention of holding out for a draw.

 

 

right now i'd take shearer or jol instead  of allardyce. if ashley is planning on spending serious cashthen we can attract a better manager